TheMobRules wrote on 2020-12-29, 00:24:

Is the Witcher 3 also like this? I had the intention of playing that one as I completely missed it when it came out, but now I'm not sure. I think I'll concentrate on my retro backlog for the time being...

The Witcher 3 is a real RPG, its many times better than Cyberpunk 2077. I'm 20 hours in on Cyberpunk and its just so pedestrain. I actually liked Mass Effect : Andromeda better than most, and I think that was a better game with more RPG elements than 2077.

Shagittarius wrote on 2020-12-29, 00:49:

TheMobRules wrote on 2020-12-29, 00:24:

Is the Witcher 3 also like this? I had the intention of playing that one as I completely missed it when it came out, but now I'm not sure. I think I'll concentrate on my retro backlog for the time being...

The Witcher 3 is a real RPG, its many times better than Cyberpunk 2077. I'm 20 hours in on Cyberpunk and its just so pedestrain. I actually liked Mass Effect : Andromeda better than most, and I think that was a better game with more RPG elements than 2077.

I find mainstream reviews of CP2077. Of course you get complaints about performance, but when you get past that most reviews still seem to be claiming that it is close to the greatest game ever. But when I read user reviews, most of them are going "Meh". I tend to trust the latter.

Thanks for the rundown MobRules - this isn't a game I'll be playing for anywhere near full price. As mentioned The Witcher 3 is the real deal with memorable side quests and more than the illusion of consequence. It was buggy on release too so maybe Cyberpunk can be polished into something but we'll see - the setting and the "punk attitude" alone put a hard limit on the potential enjoyment factor for me.

I do like CPR so hopefully they'll come through it but yeah something went well and truly sideways here and I hate to think of all the people who worked on 2077; the hype train picked up speed and there was no going back.

badmojo wrote on 2020-12-29, 01:57:

I do like CPR so hopefully they'll come through it but yeah something went well and truly sideways here and I hate to think of all the people who worked on 2077; the hype train picked up speed and there was no going back.

Oh, definitely. Despite the problems, I can tell that a lot of effort was put into the game, and as a software developer I can sympathize with these kinds of situations. I cannot be 100% sure, but there are many signs of management being unable to keep feature creep under control, and a lack of focus on the core aspects of the game.

I've even read some comments that after they got Keanu on board, they decided to re-write the story around his character instead of the player less than 2 years before release. Now, I don't know if it's true, but it seems to align with how on-rails the main quest is and removal of many RPG features they had promoted.

TheMobRules wrote on 2020-12-29, 03:11:

I've even read some comments that after they got Keanu on board, they decided to re-write the story around his character instead of the player less than 2 years before release. Now, I don't know if it's true, but it seems to align with how on-rails the main quest is and removal of many RPG features they had promoted.

Yep sounds like management as I know it! Also releasing on platforms that couldn't handle it and periphery stuff like tie-ins with other games - I bought 'Death Standing' a couple of weeks ago and the day after was hit with a 32GB update that included vehicles and characters from CP2077 - all of this crap drags people away from the core work of developing a solid game.

(I got a refund for Death Standing shortly after)

CP2077? Meh. It’s pure nonsense. No offense to others, but I simply disliked the game and the hype around it. The bugs in this game spreading around many platforms just reinforces my opinion about current gen game devs.

Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-29, 03:54:

CP2077? Meh. It’s pure nonsense. No offense to others, but I simply disliked the game and the hype around it. The bugs in this game spreading around many platforms just reinforces my opinion about current gen game devs.

Where's the thumbs down button when you need one?

Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-29, 03:54:

CP2077? Meh. It’s pure nonsense. No offense to others, but I simply disliked the game and the hype around it. The bugs in this game spreading around many platforms just reinforces my opinion about current gen game devs.

AAA game releases are mostly the "Latest Michael Bay blockbuster!" of gaming. Also, huge complex structures with endless teams that have to shout to each other down a 100-foot-long dinner table. Nobody will remember most of them in 20 years. Certainly not this one, I would say.

Give me the early-iD Software formula of "small team with resident supergenius programmer" anyday. But that's part of the problem of course : Carmacks and Sweeneys are extremely rare, so the game industry is mostly composed of rote university degree conveyor-belt commercialism - cynical game factories churning out product to capitalise on trends.

I think modern PC gaming in particular is subject to a self-cannibalising Platform Wars dynamic whereby Steam, and Companies Who Want To Be Steam, scrap for short-lived shallow dominance by dragging the biggest eyeball-share back-and-forth with Shiny Mainstream Explosions.

That's not to detract from the significant indie scene which as always does it's own thing in the background.

😳 <-- I'm in the corner watching this trainwreck unfold while still enjoying XCOM 2 years after release thanks to excellent support, DLCs, and mods...

Shreddoc wrote on 2020-12-29, 09:00:

Give me the early-iD Software formula of "small team with resident supergenius programmer" anyday.

Give us the whole damn 90s gaming scene back 🤣.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-12-29, 09:06:

😳 <-- I'm in the corner watching this trainwreck unfold while still enjoying XCOM 2 years after release thanks to excellent support, DLCs, and mods...

Have any of you X-COM lovers taken note of Stirring Abyss on Steam? Looks like an amazing Terror from the Deep meets Darkest Dungeon kind of game.. I'm really tempted to buy it this sales season.

kolderman wrote on 2020-12-29, 10:08:

Shreddoc wrote on 2020-12-29, 09:00:

Give me the early-iD Software formula of "small team with resident supergenius programmer" anyday.

Give us the whole damn 90s gaming scene back 🤣.

Yes, please!

I've stayed far away from CP2077 and I'm glad I did. I can't say all modern games pale in comparison to 90s games, but it does seem like the stud-to-dud ratio was much higher back then. There's a lot more money to throw around today in game development, I just think that lends itself to more carelessness, less efficiency, and less focus on producing a quality product. I don't know, maybe I'm talking out of my ass...

Back to what game I'm playing, I'm now 18 hours into Half-Life 2 and am getting close to Nova Prospekt. I was not crazy about the Sandtrap level at first, but it's growing on me now that I'm getting close to finishing it. It was definitely a nice change of pace and I like having the Pheropod much more than not having it. That whole first part where you had to build your way across the sand to not touch it was nuts. I heard there was a crazy achievement for making it through the whole section without touching the sand once, but I said screw it, that seems like it would take too long and be super frustrating. And I believe I had more fun occasionally having to battle an antlion or two after briefly touching the sand...

badmojo wrote on 2020-12-29, 06:06:

Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-29, 03:54:

CP2077? Meh. It’s pure nonsense. No offense to others, but I simply disliked the game and the hype around it. The bugs in this game spreading around many platforms just reinforces my opinion about current gen game devs.

Where's the thumbs down button when you need one?

So you like to play unfinished games with bugs? Be the beta tester and pay for official DLCs?

I simply hate games where you have to pay to unlock “extra” stuff or with bugs/that are unfinished. CP2077 didn’t even had a demo version, am I correct? Had they done a proper testing before, they wouldn’t have to make their customers wait a month for a fix, right?

you don't have to pay to unlock “extra” stuff in witcher games nor cp
patches were normal things from the beginning of gaming

No, they were not.

appiah4 wrote on 2020-12-29, 10:57:

xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-12-29, 09:06:

😳 <-- I'm in the corner watching this trainwreck unfold while still enjoying XCOM 2 years after release thanks to excellent support, DLCs, and mods...

Have any of you X-COM lovers taken note of Stirring Abyss on Steam? Looks like an amazing Terror from the Deep meets Darkest Dungeon kind of game.. I'm really tempted to buy it this sales season.

I wasn't aware of it. As a TFTD fan, I'm very tempted too !

Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-29, 11:53:

So you like to play unfinished games with bugs?

Of course not, no-one does. I just don't subscribe to this black and white, 'modern gaming sux' nonsense - modern games are generally massive, complicated pieces of software so can't be compared to our 90's favourites. This CP2077 mess isn't the norm and by the sounds of it lots of people are still having lots of fun with it, as I have with many a modern game that needed a polish.

badmojo wrote on 2020-12-29, 21:37:

Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-29, 11:53:

So you like to play unfinished games with bugs?

Of course not, no-one does. I just don't subscribe to this black and white, 'modern gaming sux' nonsense - modern games are generally massive, complicated pieces of software so can't be compared to our 90's favourites. This CP2077 mess isn't the norm and by the sounds of it lots of people are still having lots of fun with it, as I have with many a modern game that needed a polish.

I will refrain from posting here because it would deviate the talk from the topic subject (what game are you playing now?). Better reply to you in a private message. But to make it clear:

I never said "modern gaming sux". I always said "modern games are badly developed". I could play and if they were affordable, developed bug-free and to run well in any machine - even low end ones or hardware from last year. That's why I haven't bought a new game since 2010.

I grew up with Sega, and missed Nintendo almost entirely. Currently (over a period of years) I am alternating between revisiting Sega classics that defined my childhood, and discovering revered Nintendo classics for the first time.

Just finished Dotemu's The Dragon's Trap remake. What a simply perfect piece of work, incredible, mind pretty much blown by what-and-how they achieved there. That's one big nostalgic checkbox, thoroughly ticked in the best way possible. <kowtow of extreme respect>

Making my way through the Shinobi series, I am partway through Shadow Dancer (arcade version) and looking forward to Shinobi III, which I missed back in the 90's, and which has a good reputation among many.

The primary attention-sucker of the moment is Secret of Mana. It's a long, long time since I seriously played any topdown JRPG. Think, long hours spent on Golden Axe Warrior and Ys on the Master System as a kid/teen back in the 90s - that sort of thing. Anyway, I've got SoM running on my emulation cabinet with an appropriate CRT-filter and nice (non-authentic experience alert! weep weep weep!) Sanwa control system. Sunk 5-10 hours into it so far and what can I say? It's great, I'm rarely so engaged in a game for hours on end. That weird mix of repetitive grind and addictive challenge which embodies this style so effectively.

Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-30, 00:13:

badmojo wrote on 2020-12-29, 21:37:

Bruninho wrote on 2020-12-29, 11:53:

So you like to play unfinished games with bugs?

Of course not, no-one does. I just don't subscribe to this black and white, 'modern gaming sux' nonsense - modern games are generally massive, complicated pieces of software so can't be compared to our 90's favourites. This CP2077 mess isn't the norm and by the sounds of it lots of people are still having lots of fun with it, as I have with many a modern game that needed a polish.

I will refrain from posting here because it would deviate the talk from the topic subject (what game are you playing now?). Better reply to you in a private message. But to make it clear:

I never said "modern gaming sux". I always said "modern games are badly developed". I could play and if they were affordable, developed bug-free and to run well in any machine - even low end ones or hardware from last year. That's why I haven't bought a new game since 2010.

Battlecruiser 3000 and Daggerfall were buggy as hell. That's only two games released way back in 1996, 14 years before 2010. They are many more examples.

Just because you decided arbitrarily that anything newer than 2010 is a modern game and badly developed doesn't make it true.

You have a tendency to make these kinds of remarks and then act like you didn't know that they would cause that kind of reaction. It's very obvious but sadly people seem to bite.

As for me I'm currently playing Cyberpunk 2077 (@3840x1600 on my 1080ti). Have not encountered any game breaking bugs (Yes I am aware of the crafting save game issue) and having am having fun. Is it gaming nirvana? Could it have been better? Of course it isn't and what game couldn't be better than what it should be. Much like Morrowind I'm interested in seeing what the mod community does with it down the line but vanilla is fine for now. Don't buy it a full price though unless you are hard up for a new game to play.

Stop treating every news article and random post about the game as fact it's the Internets people this shouldn't be news to you.

DosFreak wrote on 2020-12-30, 02:57:

Battlecruiser 3000 and Daggerfall were buggy as hell. That's only two games released way back in 1996, 14 years before 2010. They are many more examples.

Never played these 2 games. Almost 90’s games I played were not buggy as hell like CP2077. I can’t remember one with a serious bug like CP2077, if I could I would surely mention it. Sorry if you did not have the same experience as I did.

DosFreak wrote on 2020-12-30, 02:57:

Just because you decided arbitrarily that anything newer than 2010 is a modern game and badly developed doesn't make it true.

“arbitrarily”? Far from that. It’s completely based on my own personal experience with these “modern" games. I had terrible experiences with certain modern/most recent titles, I spoke out of a bad experience I had with these games, not “arbitrarily”. IMO (emphasis on MY opinion) they were badly developed, period.

DosFreak wrote on 2020-12-30, 02:57:

You have a tendency to make these kinds of remarks and then act like you didn't know that they would cause that kind of reaction. It's very obvious but sadly people seem to bite.

Again, I am not a troll. I however do acknowledge that I am a person with very direct, aggressive and polemic opinions and this causes such reactions. That’s my latin personality, I’m half brazilian, half spanish. I do not expect you to understand that. I never acted like “I never knew it would cause a such reaction”. I fully knew from personal experience that some people could not like my opinion and maybe overreact, but I strongly and personally prefer to be honest in my opinions and they are based on what I see and what I experience.

DosFreak wrote on 2020-12-30, 02:57:

As for me I'm currently playing Cyberpunk 2077 (@3840x1600 on my 1080ti). Have not encountered any game breaking bugs (Yes I am aware of the crafting save game issue) and having am having fun. Is it gaming nirvana? Could it have been better? Of course it isn't and what game couldn't be better than what it should be. Much like Morrowind I'm interested in seeing what the mod community does with it down the line but vanilla is fine for now. Don't buy it a full price though unless you are hard up for a new game to play.

Good for you mate, seriously, good for you that you have not found any bug so far. I would never wish you to have a bad experience with any game. But my friends did not have the same luck as you did.

DosFreak wrote on 2020-12-30, 02:57:

Stop treating every news article and random post about the game as fact it's the Internets people this shouldn't be news to you.

No thanks, because I did not make it out of any “internet posts or reddit threads” and “arbitrarily”, I talked about the game based on what my friends showed and told me about the game they played in front of me. One of them is an addict to every PS4 game; He even acknowledged several bugs from CP2077 in his PS4, but unlike the rest of my friends, will not ask for a refund because... he’s too biased towards PS4. The others asked for a refund.

I do not own a PS4 or PS5 and do not want to have one. My friends showed that CP2077 had bugs, fact. I saw them personally, fact. Half of my friends were unhappy with the game and asked for a refund, fact. These are not “internet facts” but life facts.

Not everything on internet is “fake news” if you know how to differentiate it and use your brain to check facts like I did...

But hey, no hard feelings, DosFreak. We just have different opinions and that’s okay.