the perfect retro audio setup is one where you can choose from all the different chips.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-26, 21:55:

With out naming and sound cards in particular. I would like to know what you would consider the prefect audio chipset setup?

Chips like Yamaha OPL3, Crystal, Creative, Mwave, Advanced logic audio, ESS, Opti, etc.

Which chips would you consider to be the best minimum setup for best and most DOS game compatibility.?

No existing individual card is perfect, IMHO . A perfect (or almost) combination of cards is quite possible, IMHO, if planning to cover DOS and Windows 9x .

a) A good quality SB Pro clone with WSS support
b) An SB16 compatible (or AWE32/64, according to preference), preferably late vintage for least noise .
c) A Gravis Ultrasound variant
d) A PCI sound with good Directsound support (SB Live!/Audigy or Aureal variant, or possibly both).
e) Making sure a or b has a genuine or good clone of an OPL3 (according to taste).
f) Optionally, MIDI modules or daughterboards (according to preference) .

EDIT: My setup fits into this generic template. Please tell me if I am missing anything .

darry wrote on 2021-01-26, 22:12:

No existing individual card is perfect, IMHO . A perfect (or almost) combination of cards is quite possible, IMHO, if planning […]
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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-26, 21:55:

With out naming and sound cards in particular. I would like to know what you would consider the prefect audio chipset setup?

Chips like Yamaha OPL3, Crystal, Creative, Mwave, Advanced logic audio, ESS, Opti, etc.

Which chips would you consider to be the best minimum setup for best and most DOS game compatibility.?

No existing individual card is perfect, IMHO . A perfect (or almost) combination of cards is quite possible, IMHO, if planning to cover DOS and Windows 9x .

a) A good quality SB Pro clone with WSS support
b) An SB16 compatible (or AWE32/64, according to preference), preferably late vintage for least noise .
c) A Gravis Ultrasound variant
d) A PCI sound with good Directsound support (SB Live!/Audigy or Aureal variant, or possibly both).
e) Making sure a or b has a genuine or good clone of an OPL3 (according to taste).
f) Optionally, MIDI modules or daughterboards (according to preference) .

EDIT: My setup fits into this generic template. Please tell me if I am missing anything .

Well, lets exclude the Gravis Ultra sound cards because they are very expensive and hard to find a good one that has not been tampered with.

imi wrote on 2021-01-26, 22:10:

the perfect retro audio setup is one where you can choose from all the different chips.

That would be cool.

My perfect sound card would be a isa/pci flip trick card that works up to windows 7 and down to dos with good midi, and optical/coax out with 24-bit and 7.1 in 3.5mm audio jacks, as well as a line/mic in and game port

Dual slot on a long ribbon cable if not enough room for ports. None of those breakout cables. I hate those

Having multiple chipsets on the same card would possibly be a great way to accomplish much of this.

I was thinking of getting a Orpheus and using a usb sound card to pipe sound into the line in for later versions of windows.

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-26, 22:21:

That would be cool. […]
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imi wrote on 2021-01-26, 22:10:

the perfect retro audio setup is one where you can choose from all the different chips.

That would be cool.

My perfect sound card would be a isa/pci flip trick card that works up to windows 7 and down to dos with good midi, and optical/coax out with 24-bit and 7.1 in 3.5mm audio jacks, as well as a line/mic in and game port

Dual slot on a long ribbon cable if not enough room for ports. None of those breakout cables. I hate those

Having multiple chipsets on the same card would possibly be a great way to accomplish much of this.

I was thinking of getting a Orpheus and using a usb sound card to pipe sound into the line in for later versions of windows.

+1 for the Orpheus

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-26, 22:20:

darry wrote on 2021-01-26, 22:12:

No existing individual card is perfect, IMHO . A perfect (or almost) combination of cards is quite possible, IMHO, if planning […]
Show full quote

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-26, 21:55:

With out naming and sound cards in particular. I would like to know what you would consider the prefect audio chipset setup?

Chips like Yamaha OPL3, Crystal, Creative, Mwave, Advanced logic audio, ESS, Opti, etc.

Which chips would you consider to be the best minimum setup for best and most DOS game compatibility.?

No existing individual card is perfect, IMHO . A perfect (or almost) combination of cards is quite possible, IMHO, if planning to cover DOS and Windows 9x .

a) A good quality SB Pro clone with WSS support
b) An SB16 compatible (or AWE32/64, according to preference), preferably late vintage for least noise .
c) A Gravis Ultrasound variant
d) A PCI sound with good Directsound support (SB Live!/Audigy or Aureal variant, or possibly both).
e) Making sure a or b has a genuine or good clone of an OPL3 (according to taste).
f) Optionally, MIDI modules or daughterboards (according to preference) .

EDIT: My setup fits into this generic template. Please tell me if I am missing anything .

Well, lets exclude the Gravis Ultra sound cards because they are very expensive and hard to find a good one that has not been tampered with.

TBH, the Gravis cards are useful for about 2 or 3 games and the demo/tracking scene stuff. So if that isn't your thing, no need for a Gravis, especially at current prices. That being said, you did post a photo of a Gravis PnP, so that makes it fair game . 😉

Soon...

Marmes wrote on 2021-01-26, 23:05:

Soon...

What are you mad scientists up to now??

Marmes wrote on 2021-01-26, 23:05:

Soon...

Why do I get the feeling I should start putting money aside for something ...?

I guess I'm a llittle slow. Can't figure out how to start a draft. Posting a few pics. I have more , much more Epeprom tttype chips

I guess I'm a little slow. Can't figure out how to start a draft. Posting a few pics. I have more , much more Eprom type chips

warloxian wrote on 2021-01-27, 04:17:

I guess I'm a little slow. Can't figure out how to start a draft. Posting a few pics. I have more , much more Eprom type chips

Stollen bios chips? For programming with midi wavetables?

I'm not as schooled in this old stuff
I just have a lot of it. Don't understand the stolen part.

warloxian wrote on 2021-01-27, 05:59:

I'm not as schooled in this old stuff
I just have a lot of it. Don't understand the stolen part.

Was just asking if you got them from motherboards 🤣. Didn’t actually think they were stollen.

Lol. I got them from a nasa engineer. I had an e-waste company for a few years and I held onto aome of the older stuff. Makes me suck now cause I had 2 tons of this type of stuff that went to the refinery. Don't realiclze the beauty and collectability of them.

IMO, you need a number of things for the perfect DOS gaming experience, and no single sound card delivers it all. It's necessary to combine at least two cards to tick all the boxes. In order of priority, I would look for:

1. Low self-noise
2. Genuine OPL3
2. Sound Blaster Pro compatibility
3. Bugfree MPU-401 playback
4. Support for intelligent mode MPU-401
5. Sound Blaster 16 compatibility
6. No single-cycle DMA / Vibra ringing bug
7. ADPCM support

Note that 4. can be replaced by SoftMPU for the most part, while Windows Sound System / ESS AudioDrive can be used instead of 5. provided that your games support it. Also, 7. only matters if you play games that require it, such as Duke Nukem 2 and Major Stryker.

A Yamaha Audician 32 paired with a Sound Blaster 16 connected to an SC-55 and an MT-32 will tick most of the boxes. Or you can go with the Orpheus paired with an AWE64 Gold for slightly more options, but at a higher cost.

who the hell really needs WSS compatibility? Genuine OPL3 is little overrated. Nothing old and plenty has hardware intelligent MPU-401. SOFTMPU works just fine for those few old titles. "2,6 and 2" ADPCM is really only utilized in Duke Nukem 2, and there is a patch now. But yes 4-8 ADPCM is needed, but i do not have info, what cards do not have it. ESS and ALS have everything. OPL-SAx does not have the 2,6 and 2 version.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2021-01-27, 07:19:

who the hell really needs WSS compatibility?

There are a few edge cases where a game will sound its absolute best using WSS. Examples would be Aladdin and Space Quest V. Otherwise, WSS is kinda nice for cards that don't have SB16 compatibility when playing late-era DOS games.

Genuine OPL3 is little overrated.

Depends on what you're comparing it to. OPL3 vs. ESFM? Not that different to my ears. However, compare OPL3 to CQM or SBLive emulated FM synth and the differences become quite noticeable. More so in some games than others.

WSS is technically the best DOS sound standard - but I'm not aware of any game that actually uses its 48kHz vs SB16 44kHz (hell, there are precious few that actually do 16b 44kHz and not just 8b 22kHz).

Fundamental question is: are we looking at best compatibility for Soundblaster (Pro/16)-supporting titles, or best compatibility for highest number of standards?

In terms of a single card, I'd say go for the best ALS100 card you can find:
- OPL3 (or 100% clone)
- SBPro2 and full SB16 (including high DMA)
- bug-free MPU401
- no TSRs

Its SB compatibility is good, but not perfect.

Multi-card setup:
- Original Sound Blaster, or replica, preferably with CMS chips, for SB and AdLib (and Game Blaster if you add CMS)
- MPU401 or clone (MagicQuest, HardMPU etc) for intelligent mode MIDI (and bug-free MPU401), connected to at least an SC-55 or SCB-55
- AWE64 or perhaps better CT3670 (same DSP, but with SIMM slot for RAM) for SB16 and AWE
- PnP SBPro2-clone with WSS (why PnP? So you can choose to init either it or the AWE, so you don't need to use really obscure resource settings to run both, and can choose not to enable OPL)
- for good measure you can add Covox, Tandy and SSI-2001 replicas as well
- it should be possible to add a GUS without major resource issues too, if you do find one for an accepable price.

Of course, doing all this in one system does need a LOT of ISA slots, I'm counting seven. And games that like the oldest hardware probably want a CPU that is slower than makes sense with AWE and GUS. But it's all within the realm of possibility, if not optimal for everything at once.