dionb wrote on 2021-01-27, 07:45:

WSS is technically the best DOS sound standard - but I'm not aware of any game that actually uses its 48kHz vs SB16 44kHz (hell, there are precious few that actually do 16b 44kHz and not just 8b 22kHz).

Turrican 2 can use 48 kHz.

Works great on my OPTi 82C930 card.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-01-27, 07:09:

IMO, you need a number of things for the perfect DOS gaming experience, and no single sound card delivers it all. It's necessary […]
Show full quote

IMO, you need a number of things for the perfect DOS gaming experience, and no single sound card delivers it all. It's necessary to combine at least two cards to tick all the boxes. In order of priority, I would look for:

1. Low self-noise
2. Genuine OPL3
2. Sound Blaster Pro compatibility
3. Bugfree MPU-401 playback
4. Support for intelligent mode MPU-401
5. Sound Blaster 16 compatibility
6. No single-cycle DMA / Vibra ringing bug
7. ADPCM support

Note that 4. can be replaced by SoftMPU for the most part, while Windows Sound System / ESS AudioDrive can be used instead of 5. provided that your games support it. Also, 7. only matters if you play games that require it, such as Duke Nukem 2 and Major Stryker.

A Yamaha Audician 32 paired with a Sound Blaster 16 connected to an SC-55 and an MT-32 will tick most of the boxes. Or you can go with the Orpheus paired with an AWE64 Gold for slightly more options, but at a higher cost.

Yes, at least on the Mac they got the sound right and you dont need all that stuff.

there is no comparison between a closed-architecture system with 1 manufacturer and the pc world - sound on pc is much much much more interesting than mac world

As far as chipsets go, until a few months ago I would have responded with ESS ES1868, but today my answer is simple: CMI8830/A. I am a believer.

That said, if we are talking about specific cards Orpheus is in a league of its own..

appiah4 wrote on 2021-01-27, 14:13:

As far as chipsets go, until a few months ago I would have responded with ESS ES1868, but today my answer is simple: CMI8830/A. I am a believer.

That said, if we are talking about specific cards Orpheus is in a league of its own..

Ok, what is clearly more compatible or better with that CMI8330?

8830? Well, it's the best typo so far 😉

dionb wrote on 2021-01-27, 18:35:

8830? Well, it's the best typo so far 😉

Ha, you got me.

Yes, I meant to say CMI8330/A

Anyone's best chipset is going to vary widely. TBH, on the subject of WSS, I'm not that big of a fan because of it's lacking support on older DOS titles. I even have a copy of 7th guest WITHOUT WSS support. My NEC Versa M/75 has WSS and no OPL. Also, different software handles different chips differently.

My personal favorite card overall is the SoundBlaster AWE32 and AWE64 and whatever chips they use - my 486 DX4 Desktop has the latter, and it's excellent for using vintage hardware as a DAW, even on i486 hardware.

Honestly if I were to design and make my own cards right now I'd make PCMCIA cards that are just clones of the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0, Adlib, Gameblaster, and Tandy 3-voice. That way no matter what vintage silicon you're running, you'd have some kind of in-game audio beyond a one voice internal speaker.

Use Cases
- SB Pro 2.0 Clone - For the laptop with no audio whatsoever
- Adlib - for laptops like the Zenith Data Systems and NEC VErsa M/75 that have WSS and no OPL
- GameBlaster - for older 386 Laptops
- Tandy 3-Voice - just another option that would be really easy to cram into a type II card.

How do these two audio chips compare?

1) Crystal CS4237B
2) Crystal CS4248

creepingnet wrote on 2021-01-27, 22:04:

TBH, on the subject of WSS, I'm not that big of a fan because of it's lacking support on older DOS titles.

Concerning older titles, I have mostly seen WSS support in Sierra adventure games (Gabriel Knight, Space Quest V, Police Quest IV) and also a few Disney games (Aladdin, Lion King) but not much else.

On the other hand, many DOS games made from 1994 onward tend to work fine with WSS, especially if they use the Miles or HMI sound systems. Mobygames lists nearly 200 games that support WSS but their records are incomplete. For example, neither Aladdin nor Gabriel Knight are on that list, while they both have WSS support.

CS4248 is a wss-compatible 16bit codec, no soundblaster modes - not suitable for DOS gaming usage as-is, it needs another chip to do the rest of the stuff

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-01-28, 10:15:

creepingnet wrote on 2021-01-27, 22:04:

TBH, on the subject of WSS, I'm not that big of a fan because of it's lacking support on older DOS titles.

Concerning older titles, I have mostly seen WSS support in Sierra adventure games (Gabriel Knight, Space Quest V, Police Quest IV) and also a few Disney games (Aladdin, Lion King) but not much else.

On the other hand, many DOS games made from 1994 onward tend to work fine with WSS, especially if they use the Miles or HMI sound systems. Mobygames lists nearly 200 games that support WSS but their records are incomplete. For example, neither Aladdin nor Gabriel Knight are on that list, while they both have WSS support.

I'm aware of Sierra - that's actually the stuff I use my M/75 for the most because it has a Crystal CS-4231-KQ chip and nothing else. Freddy Pharkas Frontier Pharmacist (talkie CD version), Hoyle Card Games has a driver for WSS but I don't know what it uses it for (Adlib is needed for the music).

You want to know what game has the candy-store for audio options - including WSS for Music AND Voice? Under a Killing Moon. I have all four CD's ripped to ISO on my vintage NEC laptops, including theM/75 with WSS - music AND sound effects AND voice acting all go through the WSS in DOS for that game. It also has a very nice GUI interface that allows one to hot-swap audio devices on the fly in-game. I should post screenshots.

I got a copy of 7th Guest which supposedly had support for WSS but it does not, seems the drivers were omitted. Sierra's Lightouse does for sound effects. NASCAR 2 also has WSS support for sound effects, and so does Links 386 Pro as well. Have not tried Day of the Tentacle, but I think it does not.

So there's some WSS support. The killer is a lot of laptops from that time, and many WSS compatible cards including I think I have another one that has no OPL for a desktop - are lacking music capability due to said Yamaha chip or compatible device being omitted. On my NEC Versa it's advertised as "Crystal Business Audio", on the other card I have, which I think is from Compaq, it's also advertised as such (same chip) - I've not explored the card as much though (I got a stockpile of ISA sound cards several years back, more than a few of them I've not messed with yet).

Something I should try on the M/75 is Digital Audio Recording in Windows using WSS - see how it stacks up against my AWE64. I might even get DAW working in Windows 3.11 For Workgroups with that chip. It does give at least CD quality audio and it does sound real good. MPXplay in DOS also sounds great on that sound chip (yes, I have a 486 that plays MP3 files).

keropi wrote on 2021-01-28, 10:42:

CS4248 is a wss-compatible 16bit codec, no soundblaster modes - not suitable for DOS gaming usage as-is, it needs another chip to do the rest of the stuff

I have only seen it paired with Opti 82c929 what elae is there out there?

creepingnet wrote on 2021-01-28, 17:45:

You want to know what game has the candy-store for audio options - including WSS for Music AND Voice? Under a Killing Moon. I have all four CD's ripped to ISO on my vintage NEC laptops, including theM/75 with WSS - music AND sound effects AND voice acting all go through the WSS in DOS for that game. It also has a very nice GUI interface that allows one to hot-swap audio devices on the fly in-game.

You know, I don't think I ever played one of those interactive movie style adventure games back in the '90s.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give this one a try. Seems to be discounted on GOG currently.

appiah4 wrote on 2021-01-28, 18:40:

keropi wrote on 2021-01-28, 10:42:

CS4248 is a wss-compatible 16bit codec, no soundblaster modes - not suitable for DOS gaming usage as-is, it needs another chip to do the rest of the stuff

I have only seen it paired with Opti 82c929 what elae is there out there?

Yes, and with an Yamaha OPL3 chip too.
Any good?

How does it compare to the Orpheus ?

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-28, 18:59:

Yes, and with an Yamaha OPL3 chip too. Any good? […]
Show full quote

appiah4 wrote on 2021-01-28, 18:40:

keropi wrote on 2021-01-28, 10:42:

CS4248 is a wss-compatible 16bit codec, no soundblaster modes - not suitable for DOS gaming usage as-is, it needs another chip to do the rest of the stuff

I have only seen it paired with Opti 82c929 what elae is there out there?

Yes, and with an Yamaha OPL3 chip too.
Any good?

How does it compare to the Orpheus ?

The one I have is a Turtle Beach MonteCarlo 929 clone by MediaMagic. It is not even remotely close to Orpheus but it is a very decent sound card nonetheless.

appiah4 wrote on 2021-01-28, 20:58:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-28, 18:59:

Yes, and with an Yamaha OPL3 chip too. Any good? […]
Show full quote

appiah4 wrote on 2021-01-28, 18:40:

I have only seen it paired with Opti 82c929 what elae is there out there?

Yes, and with an Yamaha OPL3 chip too.
Any good?

How does it compare to the Orpheus ?

The one I have is a Turtle Beach MonteCarlo 929 clone by MediaMagic. It is not even remotely close to Orpheus but it is a very decent sound card nonetheless.

Yeah, I have one of those too, thats why I asked how it compares to the Orpheus.