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Reply 40 of 79, by radiance32

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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 02:48:
if you run dtpl.exe -r 1 > dump.cis and attach that dump it would have what I am looking for. you need to run it on a […]
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if you run dtpl.exe -r 1 > dump.cis and attach that dump it would have what I am looking for. you need to run it on a laptop with normal card services though, does not work on the LX.

Do you have dtpl.exe on any of your laptops within the card services etc? I hate to attach/distribute .exe files if I can avoid it. I have it from some other developer tools.

http://www-pc.uni-regensburg.de/systemsw/techtool.htm the dtpl.exe inside pci&pnp appears to be same md5sum as my file.

nyR77oCl.jpg

Damn, that's a shame, I don't have ANY computers with a PCMCIA bus other than all my 100 and 200LX machines 🙁

Hmmmm.....
I'll have a look on trademe (which is a local New Zealand eBay auction site, which is VERY popular in NZ, everyone uses it) and pickup cheap, old 486 laptop with a PCMCIA type 2 (not cardbus) slot.
I don't know if I'll find one quickly, but i'll have a look, otherwise it will have to be ebay and that will take a lot of time to ship to New Zealand, we're talking weeks with the current COVID situation...
Hopefully I will find something here in NZ on trade and it will arrive within a few days, shipping here in NZ is pretty fast... We have no COVID here in the country...

I was thinking of buying one anyway cause I need a machine with a proper old DB9 serial port to debug my current Psion Series 3a/c/mx DTP application i'm developing using the Psion SIBO C SDK,
as I've had nothing but problems and failure using those USB to RS-232 cables for PCs with vmware...

So gimme a few days, and pray I can find one on trademe, and I'll get you your dump in a 2-3 days to a week max 😀

Cheers,
Terrence

Reply 41 of 79, by radiance32

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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 02:48:
if you run dtpl.exe -r 1 > dump.cis and attach that dump it would have what I am looking for. you need to run it on a […]
Show full quote

if you run dtpl.exe -r 1 > dump.cis and attach that dump it would have what I am looking for. you need to run it on a laptop with normal card services though, does not work on the LX.

Do you have dtpl.exe on any of your laptops within the card services etc? I hate to attach/distribute .exe files if I can avoid it. I have it from some other developer tools.

http://www-pc.uni-regensburg.de/systemsw/techtool.htm the dtpl.exe inside pci&pnp appears to be same md5sum as my file.

nyR77oCl.jpg

Bad news Kevin 🙁,
There's nothing of use on TradeMe, so I will have to go to eBay, find a suitable laptop and it will take time to get here...
If I can find a seller on eBay that ships to New Zealand, I might be able to get one here within 2 weeks or so...

Is there any specific model you'd recommend? Maybe an old ThinkPad like you've got?
I'm gonna leave this post here for one day, which I browse options on eBay, to give you time to read it and suggest a good laptop for me to buy.
I need at least these specs: i386 CPU, able to run Windows 95 (for my Psion SIBO C SDK and Series 3 emulator to run), PCMCIA type 2 one or two slots (for the stuff we're doing here) and, a DB9 RS-232C port (for debugging my C code with the remote debugger in the SIBO C SDK on my Psion Series 3 machines, and file-transfer), and a DB-25 Parallel port, to run CVX4/covox, S2P and OPL3LPT stuff...

Please recommend me a good machine 😀
Price range would be up to max of USD $500...

Thanks,
Terrence

Reply 42 of 79, by yyzkevin

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There is no rush, my first milestone would be to have a working doubleslot replica then we build from there. That will be at least two weeks, as it will be at least a week before I send off v1 pcb.

My personal selection of old laptops/palmtops is limited, aside from the LX's I have my IBM PC110's which are 486SX33's and my Toshiba 430CDT.

Reply 43 of 79, by radiance32

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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 05:38:

There is no rush, my first milestone would be to have a working doubleslot replica then we build from there. That will be at least two weeks, as it will be at least a week before I send off v1 pcb.

My personal selection of old laptops/palmtops is limited, aside from the LX's I have my IBM PC110's which are 486SX33's and my Toshiba 430CDT.

I found a nice working Thinkpad 560 with a Pentium 100, 2x PCMCIA Type 2 or 1x Type 3, DB-9 Serial, DB-25 Parallel and win95 pre-installed, tested and working for $135.
I'm trying to convince the seller on ebay to ship to NZ by offering him an extra $15 for the efforts of filling out the international shipping forms etc...
Let's hope he accepts this and I can get the machine over here soon.

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I've been in bad need of a machine like this (with MS-DOS/win 95 and a DB-9 RS-232C port) anyways for my Psion Series 3a/c/mx application I'm developing using the Psion SIBO C SDK...
I've attached a screenshot of it, it's a mouse driven app for the Series 3a, 3c and 3mx, which were keyboard only machines. I wrote drivers for serial Microsoft (2button), serial Logitech (3button/wheel) and serial Mouse Systems (3 button) mice and it's the first mouse driven app for the Psion Series 3 😉 It's a sorta mini Adobe Illustrator / Aldus Pagemaker soft of vector drawing/publishing app. (I'm hoping to support PNG and JPG input, SVG input, color support (although on screen everything will look with 3 levels of grey dithered, and full PS printing and PDF output (with the linked JPG and PNG colour images embedded). I've got most of the UI working an a fair number of primitives and import of .PCX and Psion .PIC at the moment. It's entirely written in C-98 and compiled with the TopSpeed C compiler as part of the Psion SIBO SDK for their Series 3 machines. Do you have any Psion Palmtops ???
I have LOTS of them and love them just as much as my HP Palmtops 😀

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Cheers,
Terrence

Last edited by radiance32 on 2021-02-17, 02:55. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 44 of 79, by yyzkevin

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I do not have Psion but they do look cool. It is a fairly recent development that I have started back into some old technology. It hurts buying stuff I threw out years ago.

I saw this application you are working on somewhere, I don't know if somebody posted that picture on twitter or I read about it in a thread.

Here is the link to the sidecar project. hopefully circuitmaker does not shut down.

https://workspace.circuitmaker.com/Projects/D … kevin/LXSidecar

Reply 45 of 79, by radiance32

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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 05:58:

I do not have Psion but they do look cool. It is a fairly recent development that I have started back into some old technology. It hurts buying stuff I threw out years ago.

Here is the link to the sidecar project. hopefully circuitmaker does not shut down.

https://workspace.circuitmaker.com/Projects/D … kevin/LXSidecar

Cool, "sidecar", that's a great working name !!! 😀 I love it!, It's like a sidecar for a motorbike right? Is that what you mean? 😉
I've signed up on the circuit maker site, do you need to add me to the project or something? I've never used it before...

I'm going to have a good think tonight before I fall asleep as to how I can contribute to this project, while I have very limited skills with electronics and PCB design (almost none),
I'm sure there are lots of other things I can do including designing and manufacturing the enclosure/case, documentation, testing, financial support to pay for prototyping material needs and prototype PCB manufacturing,
component sourcing, soldering etc... and maybe some development here and there, but I don't have much knowledge of x86 assembly programming and DOS driver development etc, I'm a pure C/C++ coder, and I've a lot of experience with OpenGL, 3d render engine development (especially physically-based raytracers, I developed OctaneRender (www.otoy.com) about 12 years ago, the first GPU based physically-based spectral raytracer about 10 years ago, before I sold it to a Los Angeles company called OTOY)...

How do you see this project with regards to licensing etc... Do you want to make this a pure, free, open-source design? Or are you interested in developing this as a side/hobby business to make some extra money on the side, like serdaco does with their CVX4, OPL3LPT and S2P and other products ?
I myself would like to see it as a purely open-source project, where we provide all the information so people can source components and build one for themselves, and, if someone wants to make some extra money, he can always build some and sell them on eBay or something... I don't know, what do you think ???

Cheers,
Terrence

Reply 46 of 79, by yyzkevin

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re: circuitmaker

I actually kind of hate it already, I thought it would closer to the other Altium tools I use but it is not, looks like it has been left to die. I thought it would be nice for collaboration. So maybe we will not use it and stick to more traditional place to publish information and changes, and I will upload schematics/gerber files manually etc.

Yeah circuitmaker is not good. I will put updates here https://github.com/yyzkevin/lxsidecar/discussions

i thought sidecar because it kind of reminds me also of the IBM PCJr sidecars, so I cannot take credit for the working name. By the way my esp8266 pcmcia card the working name was espcmcia 🤣.

I was thinking fully open source, this is not how I make money, in fact these hobby projects cost me money always. I do it for fun and sanity.

in terms of help certainly I would need help with the enclosure design, writing any information etc, sanity check along the way, testing, etc.

one of the reasons I was interested in directly duplicating doubleslot design is we will not need to develop code and can use existing tools. the same reason I will likely stick to presenting the OPL chip via the parallel port to leverage some software/patching that is already done to support the OPL2LPT stuff. Now having said that, after I do more testing to what the HP200LX will allow me in terms of requesting i/o space etc I may be able to present it on the standard io address and not disable the lpt port.

Last edited by yyzkevin on 2021-02-16, 06:54. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 47 of 79, by radiance32

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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 06:39:
re: circuitmaker […]
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re: circuitmaker

I actually kind of hate it already, I thought it would closer to the other Altium tools I use but it is not, looks like it has been left to die. I thought it would be nice for collaboration. So maybe we will not use it and stick to more traditional place to publish information and changes, and I will upload schematics/gerber files manually etc.

i thought sidecar because it kind of reminds me also of the IBM PCJr sidecars, so I cannot take credit for the working name. By the way my esp8266 pcmcia card the working name was espcmcia 🤣.

I was thinking fully open source, this is not how I make money, in fact these hobby projects cost me money always. I do it for fun and sanity.

in terms of help certainly I would need help with the enclosure design, writing any information etc, sanity check along the way, testing, etc.

one of the reasons I was interested in directly duplicating doubleslot design is we will not need to develop code and can use existing tools. the same reason I will likely stick to presenting the OPL chip via the parallel port to leverage some software/patching that is already done to support the OPL2LPT stuff. Now having said that, after I do more testing to what the HP200LX will allow me in terms of requesting i/o space etc I may be able to present it on the standard io address and not disable the lpt port.

yyzkevin,

maybe we could give it a go for a few days and see if it's up to snuff, if not, we can migrate to another similar system, or, for now, just use this forum, once things get to complex, and there are more people joining the project to help, we could maybe setup a discord server or something...

I don't know, I'll leave all this up to you to decide as you've got much more knowledge of these sites and tools than me, I'm a coder, not an electronics / PCB design tinkerer like you 😉

I agree going open-source is the best way, I am also not interested in making money off this, I've already got a major commercial new project I'm developing during the working hours that is going to "pay the bills" 😉

I might start by building a more accurate and complete 3D model of the 200LX, instead of the current "3 scaled cubes and a cylinder" super simple model, and once you have a size for your PCB (and screw/mounting holes), I'm going to design a nice 3d printable enclosure for it, and, get a few printed by a professional 3d printing company in perfect aluminium or magnesium using one of those large, industrial aluminium 3d printers that produce "perfect" parts 😉
We will just have to be careful that the aluminium doesn't create any shorts on the PCB if it ends up touching it, so I will have to design it in such way that that can't happen or incorporate some shielding into the device...
But, I think it's a bit too early to start thinking about all that...

I hope to get that Thinkpad over here ASAP, so I can send you that dump of the LPT PCMCIA card...

Anyway, I'm calling it a day, it's beer and TV time, then bedtime! 😉 congrats on starting the new project 😀 I love the name 😀
BTW, where are you located globally ? Just so I can keep track of timezone differences etc... You already know I'm in NZ...

Cheers,
Terrence

Reply 48 of 79, by yyzkevin

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Yeah circuitmaker is uninstalled. no thank you. I used it 5 years ago to make a pcb for my wedding table signs, but had not touched it since mainly used Altium Designer and then at home CircuitStudio. So for sure will use github to organize the information https://github.com/yyzkevin/lxsidecar

In terms of shielding, I think we will be fine without even with regular SLA printed enclosure. When shielding is needed I paint interior with conductive paint.

Ideally the 3d model will incorporate the pcmcia socket itself as well. we could use a framekit, but they are expensive and not easy to get, and in this case we do not really need it as we will not be using an offset connector and there will be no components, so it can be a solid print to be even stronger than the doubleslot.

I am in Toronto, Canada but I observe my own unique timezone.

Reply 49 of 79, by lolo799

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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 00:34:

Yes I am aware of the newmedia one, however as it was described to me it was a ROM with some communication utilities and not a flash. There was one for sale on ebay recently but they would not ship to Canada, and the listing was gone before I could do anything. It was just a loose card no dongle with a HP unit. Do you remember the names of any others? I will do more research myself.

There were two main models, the ThinFax 1414LXM from EXP:
https://web.archive.org/web/19961104105220/ht … /spec/tflxm.htm
An updated driver for it is still available:
https://web.archive.org/web/19961104103531/ht … com/dldcomm.htm

And the Data/Fax Modem with 6MB Memory from Smart Modular/ Apex Data:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970213214436/ht … taFaxMemory.htm
Driver and flash format utility at the bottom of the page here:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970213214208/ht … eandDriver.html

There is a review of both in the 2nd Bonus issue of the 1995 Palmtop paper available at
http://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?content=Portable%20Paper

PCMCIA Sound, Storage & Graphics

Reply 50 of 79, by radiance32

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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 07:42:
Yeah circuitmaker is uninstalled. no thank you. I used it 5 years ago to make a pcb for my wedding table signs, but had not […]
Show full quote

Yeah circuitmaker is uninstalled. no thank you. I used it 5 years ago to make a pcb for my wedding table signs, but had not touched it since mainly used Altium Designer and then at home CircuitStudio. So for sure will use github to organize the information https://github.com/yyzkevin/lxsidecar

In terms of shielding, I think we will be fine without even with regular SLA printed enclosure. When shielding is needed I paint interior with conductive paint.

Ideally the 3d model will incorporate the pcmcia socket itself as well. we could use a framekit, but they are expensive and not easy to get, and in this case we do not really need it as we will not be using an offset connector and there will be no components, so it can be a solid print to be even stronger than the doubleslot.

I am in Toronto, Canada but I observe my own unique timezone.

Hi again kevin,

Sorry, my fault, I think I used the wrong terms and caused confusion, I didn't mean any RF or other "shielding",
I meant, If I make a 3d printed aluminium enclosure, it's possible some part of the PCB might touch the aluminium and cause a short.
Therefore I meant with "shielding" something like putting some plastic foil between the housing and the PCB to avoid shorts 😀
However, this shouldn't be necessary if the housing is properly designed for the PCB to be fitted in, fastened with screws on the corners, and the top half of the enclosure put on and then the whole sandwich would be finished by 4 screws that hold the 2 aluminium enclosure parts together, eg the top and bottom parts...

That's what I meant 😀
I need to be a bit more careful with the terms I use, English is not my mother tongue, and I often make mistakes 😉 I'll try to be more pragmatic from now on...

Anyway, I'd like to suggest the following to proceed, since you deleted the project on circuitmaker,

Why don't open a simple GitHub open source repository/project to hold all our files, for now, and you can use your preferred PCB design desktop software, and commit your updates to it regularly,
and then others could check out a copy and maybe make changes / add features, solve issues etc... and we use git to manage everything (updates, patches, commits, versioning, downloads etc...).
I can do the same with the enclosure design, and others might join that can do other things and commit things like software/drivers, updated versions of tools and drivers with new features specific to the sidecar device, etc...
We can use this forum topic for the time being to discuss everything, and if it gets too busy, we could open our own dedicated forum somewhere else...
What do you think of this?

For the time being, I'm going to start building accurate 3D models of everything the sidecar will require, PCMCIA cards of type 1, 2 and 3, compactflash cards, all the ports and connectors etc... (I think I have a DB25 3D model somewhere already I can use, and it's easy to change it into a DB-9), and offcourse a more detailed model of the 200LX. That way I can experiment with everything and try to make the smallest enclosure possible that's realistic to design/build, strong/sturdy and practical, with the ports/connectors at the right places...
I'll keep uploading my updates/images here in this topic...

That's it!, I'm off to work! 😀
Cheers,
Terrence

Terrence

Reply 51 of 79, by yyzkevin

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Thanks this is quite helpful, and there are some thinfax floating around on various sites/ebay so I should be able to get my hands on one.

lolo799 wrote on 2021-02-16, 18:20:
There were two main models, the ThinFax 1414LXM from EXP: https://web.archive.org/web/19961104105220/ht … /spec/tflxm.htm An upd […]
Show full quote
yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 00:34:

Yes I am aware of the newmedia one, however as it was described to me it was a ROM with some communication utilities and not a flash. There was one for sale on ebay recently but they would not ship to Canada, and the listing was gone before I could do anything. It was just a loose card no dongle with a HP unit. Do you remember the names of any others? I will do more research myself.

There were two main models, the ThinFax 1414LXM from EXP:
https://web.archive.org/web/19961104105220/ht … /spec/tflxm.htm
An updated driver for it is still available:
https://web.archive.org/web/19961104103531/ht … com/dldcomm.htm

And the Data/Fax Modem with 6MB Memory from Smart Modular/ Apex Data:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970213214436/ht … taFaxMemory.htm
Driver and flash format utility at the bottom of the page here:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970213214208/ht … eandDriver.html

There is a review of both in the 2nd Bonus issue of the 1995 Palmtop paper available at
http://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?content=Portable%20Paper

Reply 52 of 79, by yyzkevin

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I will post updates on github for this sidecar project. I will also update here with summary information for any spectators. There is a discussion function at github that may be useful for organizing some specific discussion threads about this little project.

https://github.com/yyzkevin/lxsidecar

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-16, 22:10:
Hi again kevin, […]
Show full quote
yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 07:42:
Yeah circuitmaker is uninstalled. no thank you. I used it 5 years ago to make a pcb for my wedding table signs, but had not […]
Show full quote

Yeah circuitmaker is uninstalled. no thank you. I used it 5 years ago to make a pcb for my wedding table signs, but had not touched it since mainly used Altium Designer and then at home CircuitStudio. So for sure will use github to organize the information https://github.com/yyzkevin/lxsidecar

In terms of shielding, I think we will be fine without even with regular SLA printed enclosure. When shielding is needed I paint interior with conductive paint.

Ideally the 3d model will incorporate the pcmcia socket itself as well. we could use a framekit, but they are expensive and not easy to get, and in this case we do not really need it as we will not be using an offset connector and there will be no components, so it can be a solid print to be even stronger than the doubleslot.

I am in Toronto, Canada but I observe my own unique timezone.

Hi again kevin,

Sorry, my fault, I think I used the wrong terms and caused confusion, I didn't mean any RF or other "shielding",
I meant, If I make a 3d printed aluminium enclosure, it's possible some part of the PCB might touch the aluminium and cause a short.
Therefore I meant with "shielding" something like putting some plastic foil between the housing and the PCB to avoid shorts 😀
However, this shouldn't be necessary if the housing is properly designed for the PCB to be fitted in, fastened with screws on the corners, and the top half of the enclosure put on and then the whole sandwich would be finished by 4 screws that hold the 2 aluminium enclosure parts together, eg the top and bottom parts...

That's what I meant 😀
I need to be a bit more careful with the terms I use, English is not my mother tongue, and I often make mistakes 😉 I'll try to be more pragmatic from now on...

Anyway, I'd like to suggest the following to proceed, since you deleted the project on circuitmaker,

Why don't open a simple GitHub open source repository/project to hold all our files, for now, and you can use your preferred PCB design desktop software, and commit your updates to it regularly,
and then others could check out a copy and maybe make changes / add features, solve issues etc... and we use git to manage everything (updates, patches, commits, versioning, downloads etc...).
I can do the same with the enclosure design, and others might join that can do other things and commit things like software/drivers, updated versions of tools and drivers with new features specific to the sidecar device, etc...
We can use this forum topic for the time being to discuss everything, and if it gets too busy, we could open our own dedicated forum somewhere else...
What do you think of this?

For the time being, I'm going to start building accurate 3D models of everything the sidecar will require, PCMCIA cards of type 1, 2 and 3, compactflash cards, all the ports and connectors etc... (I think I have a DB25 3D model somewhere already I can use, and it's easy to change it into a DB-9), and offcourse a more detailed model of the 200LX. That way I can experiment with everything and try to make the smallest enclosure possible that's realistic to design/build, strong/sturdy and practical, with the ports/connectors at the right places...
I'll keep uploading my updates/images here in this topic...

That's it!, I'm off to work! 😀
Cheers,
Terrence

Terrence

Reply 53 of 79, by radiance32

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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 23:18:

I will post updates on github for this sidecar project. I will also update here with summary information for any spectators. There is a discussion function at github that may be useful for organizing some specific discussion threads about this little project.

https://github.com/yyzkevin/lxsidecar

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-16, 22:10:
Hi again kevin, […]
Show full quote
yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 07:42:
Yeah circuitmaker is uninstalled. no thank you. I used it 5 years ago to make a pcb for my wedding table signs, but had not […]
Show full quote

Yeah circuitmaker is uninstalled. no thank you. I used it 5 years ago to make a pcb for my wedding table signs, but had not touched it since mainly used Altium Designer and then at home CircuitStudio. So for sure will use github to organize the information https://github.com/yyzkevin/lxsidecar

In terms of shielding, I think we will be fine without even with regular SLA printed enclosure. When shielding is needed I paint interior with conductive paint.

Ideally the 3d model will incorporate the pcmcia socket itself as well. we could use a framekit, but they are expensive and not easy to get, and in this case we do not really need it as we will not be using an offset connector and there will be no components, so it can be a solid print to be even stronger than the doubleslot.

I am in Toronto, Canada but I observe my own unique timezone.

Hi again kevin,

Sorry, my fault, I think I used the wrong terms and caused confusion, I didn't mean any RF or other "shielding",
I meant, If I make a 3d printed aluminium enclosure, it's possible some part of the PCB might touch the aluminium and cause a short.
Therefore I meant with "shielding" something like putting some plastic foil between the housing and the PCB to avoid shorts 😀
However, this shouldn't be necessary if the housing is properly designed for the PCB to be fitted in, fastened with screws on the corners, and the top half of the enclosure put on and then the whole sandwich would be finished by 4 screws that hold the 2 aluminium enclosure parts together, eg the top and bottom parts...

That's what I meant 😀
I need to be a bit more careful with the terms I use, English is not my mother tongue, and I often make mistakes 😉 I'll try to be more pragmatic from now on...

Anyway, I'd like to suggest the following to proceed, since you deleted the project on circuitmaker,

Why don't open a simple GitHub open source repository/project to hold all our files, for now, and you can use your preferred PCB design desktop software, and commit your updates to it regularly,
and then others could check out a copy and maybe make changes / add features, solve issues etc... and we use git to manage everything (updates, patches, commits, versioning, downloads etc...).
I can do the same with the enclosure design, and others might join that can do other things and commit things like software/drivers, updated versions of tools and drivers with new features specific to the sidecar device, etc...
We can use this forum topic for the time being to discuss everything, and if it gets too busy, we could open our own dedicated forum somewhere else...
What do you think of this?

For the time being, I'm going to start building accurate 3D models of everything the sidecar will require, PCMCIA cards of type 1, 2 and 3, compactflash cards, all the ports and connectors etc... (I think I have a DB25 3D model somewhere already I can use, and it's easy to change it into a DB-9), and offcourse a more detailed model of the 200LX. That way I can experiment with everything and try to make the smallest enclosure possible that's realistic to design/build, strong/sturdy and practical, with the ports/connectors at the right places...
I'll keep uploading my updates/images here in this topic...

That's it!, I'm off to work! 😀
Cheers,
Terrence

Terrence

That's great 😀

I have two important questions on how you see the design of the project:
Which of the following 2 options do you want to implement ?

option 1: One solid piece, eg it's a PCMCIA card with the external "box" attached to it, both the card and box are one solid piece, that slides into the HP Palmtop slot, and, when fully inserted, the box is "connected" to the side of the palmtop.
option 2: 2 separate devices with a cable in between, eg a PCMCIA card that goes into the palmtop, and a flat cable or another kind of cable that connects Palmtop's PCMCIA bus lines to the external/separate box...

Personally, i'd prefer option 1, as it's less messy, more durable (no connectors and cables that could get damaged, lost etc...) and more portable, you can pick up the Palmtop to move or store it with the sidecar device attached to it...

Then, regarding the actual PCMCIA card that goes into the Palmtop, do you want to put stuff (logic, chips, functionality) into the card as well as the sidecar device? Or irrespective of you choosing option 1 or 2 of the previous question, is the card simply an empty, passive "connector" with the PCMCIA wires in it, and all the chips/logic/functionality is in the sidecar box device ?

Let me know what you tink about these questions as they matter a lot to my intentions regarding designing the case and getting it built (eg 3d printed etc...)

Cheers,
Terrence

Last edited by radiance32 on 2021-02-17, 02:05. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 54 of 79, by radiance32

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lolo799 wrote on 2021-02-16, 18:20:
There were two main models, the ThinFax 1414LXM from EXP: https://web.archive.org/web/19961104105220/ht … /spec/tflxm.htm An upd […]
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yyzkevin wrote on 2021-02-16, 00:34:

Yes I am aware of the newmedia one, however as it was described to me it was a ROM with some communication utilities and not a flash. There was one for sale on ebay recently but they would not ship to Canada, and the listing was gone before I could do anything. It was just a loose card no dongle with a HP unit. Do you remember the names of any others? I will do more research myself.

There were two main models, the ThinFax 1414LXM from EXP:
https://web.archive.org/web/19961104105220/ht … /spec/tflxm.htm
An updated driver for it is still available:
https://web.archive.org/web/19961104103531/ht … com/dldcomm.htm

And the Data/Fax Modem with 6MB Memory from Smart Modular/ Apex Data:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970213214436/ht … taFaxMemory.htm
Driver and flash format utility at the bottom of the page here:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970213214208/ht … eandDriver.html

There is a review of both in the 2nd Bonus issue of the 1995 Palmtop paper available at
http://www.hpmuseum.net/exhibit.php?content=Portable%20Paper

Hi lolo,

please join us on the github discussion forums:
https://github.com/yyzkevin/lxsidecar/discussions

Cheers!,
Terrence

Reply 55 of 79, by lolo799

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Made some recordings of the Panasonic cf-jvr101 fm radio card outputting audio through the 200lx speaker.

The volume was set at roughly a 1/3rd of the card volume wheel, except for the last two recordings, it was at 1/3rd for the first 10 seconds then 2/3rd for the next 10 seconds and at full for the rest of the file.

Filename
Voix 001.m4a
File size
366.96 KiB
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7 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
Filename
Voix 002.m4a
File size
449.3 KiB
Downloads
6 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
Filename
Voix 004.m4a
File size
549.78 KiB
Downloads
6 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
Filename
Voix 006.m4a
File size
273.62 KiB
Downloads
7 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

PCMCIA Sound, Storage & Graphics

Reply 56 of 79, by radiance32

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lolo799 wrote on 2021-02-24, 15:54:
Made some recordings of the Panasonic cf-jvr101 fm radio card outputting audio through the 200lx speaker. […]
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Made some recordings of the Panasonic cf-jvr101 fm radio card outputting audio through the 200lx speaker.

The volume was set at roughly a 1/3rd of the card volume wheel, except for the last two recordings, it was at 1/3rd for the first 10 seconds then 2/3rd for the next 10 seconds and at full for the rest of the file.
Voix 001.m4a
Voix 002.m4a
Voix 004.m4a
Voix 006.m4a

HI again lolo799,

Are you sure that the card uses the HP palmtop's built'in piezo PC speaker,
or could it have a speaker in the card itself ?
Do you have any documentation or manual or something that states this ?

In any way, I speak french (I did my 12-16 year old school in french) and i have difficulty understanding
what's being said during the parts where there's a male voice talking in french...
Although it's cool option (routing the sound from a PCMCIA card to the palmtop's internal pieze speaker),
for pcmcia cards, for the LXsidecar project I would like to add some decent micro-speaker(s)...

I really think it would make sense to put a modern, high-quality, 1 watt micro-speaker and a tiny 1w amp surface mount IC to drive it,
in the LXsidecar enclosure...
Something like this, designed for modern tablets and smartphones:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2869785.pdf
They cost only USD $~3.50 per piece depending on the amount you buy...

With some good design / mounting the speaker, cutting out horizontal lines in front of it for the sound to go through and come out of the front of the lxsidecar,
and a "port" in the back so the speaker can push/pull pressure through the sidecar housing, it should give a pretty good result with an 8 ohm 1 watt speaker,
in an enclosure that increases the bass response by acting as a sound-box (or whatever you call it in english, like the wooden box of an acoustic guitar ) 😉
Also the sound will be much better than a tablet or smartphone as you don't have the restrictions you have in those devices, being that they have to be ultra-thin,
and be water-proof, which all have a negative effect on the housing and output performance of the micro-speaker...

I could put of these micro speakers for 2 watts total in stereo, but, I think this is a litle bit overkill, since they will be mounted so close to each other,
there won't be a proper stereo field around your head/ears so it's basically similar to mono just twice as loud (2 watts)...

What do you think ?

Terrence

Reply 57 of 79, by lolo799

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Yes I'm sure, Panasonic is the only brand that made use of that function of the pcmcia port.

The fm card readme mentions the feature and its settings .ini file has a parameter for it.
You can also check the DOS enabler, it has a switch to use the the system speaker output, it's still available here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000609163017/Ww … ducts/dl_fm.htm

There is a review of that card in the Palmtop Paper dated Jan-Fev 1997, along other info from Japanese 200lx users you'll find interesting, like adding a headphone jack in the palmtop.

By the way, the only pcmcia sound card with a speaker onboard is the New Media Gamejammer, no other companies decided to make a similar design.

Putting a speaker in the enclosure is a very good idea, not needing to have a pair of headphones or external speakers when you want to use the 200lx can be useful.

Last edited by lolo799 on 2021-02-24, 22:48. Edited 2 times in total.

PCMCIA Sound, Storage & Graphics

Reply 58 of 79, by radiance32

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lolo799 wrote on 2021-02-24, 21:28:
Yes I'm sure, Panasonic is the only brand that made use of that function of the pcmcia port. The fm card readme mentions it, and […]
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Yes I'm sure, Panasonic is the only brand that made use of that function of the pcmcia port.
The fm card readme mentions it, and the settings .ini file, and the DOS tsr has a switch to use the feature.
There is a review of that card in the Palmtop Paper dated Jan-Fev 1997, along other info from Japanese 200lx users you'll find interesting, like adding a headphone jack in the palmtop.

By the way, the only pcmcia sound card with a speaker onboard is the New Media Gamejammer, no other companies decided to make a similar design.

Putting a speaker in the enclosure is a very good idea, not needing to have a pair of headphones or external speakers when you want to use the 200lx can be useful.

You're right, and, since we have enough room, we can put one of these latest-generation micro-speakers inside,
the one I linked to the PDF of in my previous post was just a 1w speaker, but there are also 2watts or 3watts available,
in a form factor that would fit in the LXsidecar enclosure.
These latest generation micro-speakers produce an amazing volume and sound quality for their size, just play some music on a tablet,
at full volume, and then imagine that speaker in a proper box enclosure, with a port on the back so it can push/pull and give a much better bass response,
I think it would sound really good, on par with a small pair of cheap Logitech desktop speakers, just lacking somewhat in bass due to the smaller enclosure...
The availability of tiny SMD ICs that have little amps for them inside are also a boon as we can just add one of these to the lxsidecar's PCB,
and put a little 2 pin header on the PCB that we can connect the 2 wires of the micro-speaker to...

Besides that, I was also interested in maybe (if it's possible and yyzkevin agrees and can do it), in putting a proper headphone 3.5" jack on the front of the lxsidecar,
which is connected to a pair of mono (or one stereo) quality op-amp, for audiophile quality sound through the stereo 3.5" jack, and enough power from the op-amp(s),
to drive a large pair of quality headphones 😉
And finally, just for convenience, if we have the room for it, maybe just a 3.5" stereo jack on the back of the enclosure of the lxsidecar with a standard line-out,
in case you want to connect it to a pair of powered desktop speakers or something...
I guess we could also just have the user use the front headphone 3.5" jack and turn the little volume knob down to a level that's comparable to a line-out level,
we could make a little mark on the dial of the knob that indicates the position it should be set to get a line-out level signal. This will eliminate the need for a 2nd 3.5" stereo jack on the back,
and, give us a bit more room inside the lxsidecar enclosure...

Are there any people here with experience with op-amps in headphone amp design?
I know there are several different options, some of them cheap, and others quite expensive, and they are supposed to produce "audiophile quality" amplified headphone sound...
I was thinking of maybe the AD8397, which I've used before in a headphone amp I designed for a friend who is partially deaf...
https://www.analog.com/en/products/ad8397.htm … roduct-overview

But there are many others out there, if anyone has experience with these, and could suggest some, please enlighten me! 😉

Thanks!,
Terrence

Reply 59 of 79, by yyzkevin

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we can do almost anything on the sidecar because we have no physical constraints. If you want to make my life easy use components that have symbol,footprint and 3d model in SnapEDA.com , otherwise it is no big deal but I have to make the footprints/symbols myself. if the datasheet has example/reference design that is even better for me.

for our sidecar we will not utilize the speaker pin on the pcmcia standard, but I will still investigate and understand it better so the "card" version of the sound only aspect of this can use it, and having an external headphone jack/headphone can be optional