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Reply 40 of 66, by 640K!enough

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Arvid wrote on 2021-02-12, 07:16:

It did not hang this time but it seems it was not completely successfull either. I´m attaching the output.txt for you to look at 😀

Again, that's an interesting result. Was the test version the first thing you ran after a cold boot (meaning you hadn't previously run CWDINIT or UNISOUND)? Peculiar that it seemed to have the control port set to FF0H, presumably by the PnP BIOS. If you wouldn't mind, can you try the same "ORPHINIT /vd > OUTPUT.TXT" routine with the attached (slightly revised) version?

As an additional test, can you then try running it twice more (without first re-booting), using an INI file that actually specifies FF0H for CtrlBase (as in "ORPHINIT /vd /f:ff0test.ini")?

Reply 41 of 66, by Arvid

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Yes, the first thing I ran was Orphinit after boot and Unisound and other similar software had not been run at that time.

I have now run the test with new version using "ORPHINIT /vd > OUTPUT.TXT" again. I have attached the output.txt for you to look at. With this new version the card was successfully initialized and I started Doom and got sound like normal 😀
There is an error message in the output.txt file but it seems this is not a critical error at least.

For the second test I did like you instructed and created an INI with CTRLBASE=FF0H in it and ran it like this "ORPHINIT /vd /f:ff0test.ini" after first running the normal init with the new version. I have attahced outputff.txt with the output for this test. It seems to fail the same way as before with "unidentified chip found, quitting" error message.

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Reply 42 of 66, by keropi

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I have an Olivetti M4 464S system, 486/66 with VLB, UMC chipset and that "winbios" from AMI.

Indeed with Orphinit 0.52b I get a freeze and 120 cards detected on some weird port:

YPzYobD.jpg

but 0.53b posted above worked fine for me and I get fm/pcm with xatax/keen4/dynablaster (yeah weird choice of games had to transfer with floppies 🤣)

QF0oaLN.jpg

u7ql1WV.jpg

640k!enough if you need more logs or something just tell me but for this system 0.53b works fine

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Reply 43 of 66, by 640K!enough

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The whole 120 cards business was due to a bug, and it was my fault, rather than the fault of some strange BIOS design or flaw. As the expression goes, "garbage in, garbage out". On machines with a PnP BIOS, it only ever worked when the memory layout happened to match. So, for anyone who had problems with ORPHINIT previously, the pre-release copy above may fix it. If it doesn't, a bug report would be appreciated.

keropi wrote on 2021-02-18, 11:27:

640k!enough if you need more logs or something just tell me but for this system 0.53b works fine

If you happen to have time, can you try the same test as above, with CtrlBase=ff0 and post the output? Also, does software that actually uses the WSS port work?

I'll try to add a few more minor improvements and post a new release before the end of the week, but I can't promise anything.

Reply 44 of 66, by keropi

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I will do those tests tomorrow when I get back to the office where the Olivetti system is 😀

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Reply 45 of 66, by keropi

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I can confirm that 0.53b works with WSS software , tested with Turrican2 and it's fine

using FF0 I get this:

Ui708Pm.jpg

does this help at all?

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Reply 46 of 66, by 640K!enough

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keropi wrote on 2021-02-19, 10:21:

using FF0 I get this:

does this help at all?

Yes and no. For one thing, it tells me not to trust the PnP BIOS resource assignments to get the first phase of initialisation started. So, the trial method that I added in 0.53ß will become permanent, and I will add another option to ignore the PnP BIOS entirely, though that sometimes has risks, as was the case with previous versions of UNISOUND. It won't be the default, but sometimes it's a useful option to have. However, due to other things that are on my to-do list, this won't be ready today.

At the same time, it isn't useful because we don't know what is happening with these Olivetti machines. I would be willing to bet that it isn't a software problem, but that doesn't tell us what is causing the FF0H problem, nor how to fix it (if it can be fixed). I will have to do some more testing, and add some additional sanity checks, but the same FF0H configuration seems to work perfectly on my test machine. Just to be sure, can you post the FF0.INI that you used?

Reply 47 of 66, by keropi

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640K!enough wrote on 2021-02-19, 15:17:

[...] Just to be sure, can you post the FF0.INI that you used?

I have downloaded Orphinit from the Orpheus website and edited ORPHEUS.INI , the only change in the ORPHEUS.INI is from "CtrlBase=538" to "CtrlBase=FF0" , nothing else...

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Reply 48 of 66, by ElBrunzy

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Hi, I have a problem using the orphinit.exe so I was reading the forum to see if it was addressed already and I came across the 2020-12-03 post where 640K!enough explain how to post a question, so here is the requested form:

1: My problem is that I cannot lower the PCM volume on my card. SB audio digital sound is too loud in some game, I'm testing in ultima 8 but no games seem affected by the PCM volume. I have a sc88 that's connected to the line-in of the orpheus which it also control. So I wanted to lower the PCM sound while keeping the Line-IN to a maximum, but no values on the PCMVol seem to do any effect.

2: Ver return Windows 98 [Version 4.10.2222] but really it's a "command prompt only" boot from win98 menu. Normal boot to Win98 GUI and sndvol32.exe's can correctly adjust Wave level of the orpheus soundcard. I also dual boot nt2k where the soundcard's mixer behave well there.

3: I do a clean boot but since ultima 8 want files=40 I put just that in config.sys. The autoexec.bat just call orpheus.bat that's come with the package.

4: I attached the orphinit.ini
Here is some highlight of it with my constatation and interrogation:
mode=sb
srsmode=off
pcmvol=63 or 0 -> no difference (probably because mode=sb?)
lineinvol=0

digitaloutput=disabled -> since I use the analogic output of the card.
routingmode=analogue

[sb-mode] -> we are now below the sb-mode section of the orpheus.ini file
input-select=line-in
PCMVol=0 or 7 -> no difference
MicLevel=0 -> can we use "mute,0" here ?
MasterVol=0 to 7 -> this made a difference on overall volume. So we can say that master volume worked

linekludge=on and wtkludge=on -> changed nothing

5: I piped orphinit /vv to vverbose.txt that I attached to this message, of course ip adress has been redacted, seriously I'm surprised to see no mention of PCM in there ?

6: I did try unisound 0.75e but it kind of mix up the pcmidi and csmpu baseport, so I did not investigate much with it. But the /VW switch seem to be ignored too. I wanted to focus on orphinit.exe for now since I read it's the official supported init/mixer tool.

7: the SET I have are : ULTRA16=534,1,5,0 and BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4. They are from orphenv.bat that orphinit.exe produce.

I want to take the opportunity to thank you for your effort 640K!enough, with orphinit.exe the orpheus soundcard feel really like complete product!

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Reply 49 of 66, by ElBrunzy

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I experimented a bit more on that tonight. I realized 0.52a was not latest version but the same behavior could be reproduced with 0.52b and 0.53b-beta. So I took a bit more time reading about the unisound documentation, configured it correctly and tested with that. I had the same result as orphinit! I then installed and test the CWDINIT and CWDMIX unfortunately, while everything else worked, I could not control the PCM volume there either. I tested with the SB talking parrot application and volume was always maximum so I made a small qbasic white noise generator but it could not be faded.

I'm not sure this topic is relevant to the orphinit mixer anymore. Maybe I should bring it to the orpheus forum after all...

Reply 50 of 66, by foil_fresh

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Hi there

Firstly thanks for creating the driver. It works great with no hassle and the volume mixer gives me no problem.

My question is, where should I place a line in my config.sys or autoexec.bat when I want to start the sound card on boot? I had it at the top of my autoexec.bat but it seemed to cause problems with environment variables and stopped ctmouse from loading as well as things like set path not loading. So I made a batch file to run from the dos prompt which loads fine, I would just prefer it to be automated.

I am using Phils' config.sys memory/driver menu. Nothing else special.

Cheers

Reply 51 of 66, by ElBrunzy

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Hi foil_fresh, my guess is that you use "C:\orpheus\orpheus.bat" on top of your autoexec.bat which will end it after orpheus.bat, have you try to use "call c:\orpheus\orpheus.bat" instead ?

Reply 52 of 66, by keropi

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2021-04-12, 00:14:

[...]
I'm not sure this topic is relevant to the orphinit mixer anymore. Maybe I should bring it to the orpheus forum after all...

I am not sure anything can be done for it, some games just max out the SB mixer volumes (ro mute/lower others) no matter what you do - it's the way they are hardcoded.
This is an old issue with every card out there when you try to mix more than one source... this is why the more "sophisticated" (if that's a good word for it) setups rely on an external manual mixer ...
I had the same issues with various games and MT-32/SC-55 volume balancing and I've been using a mixer for years to rectify this. Once you go that route you'll never go back relying to soundcard driver mixers...
Ofcourse more modern games with volume sliders solved that issue but still many (older mostly) titles remain problematic in a sense...

@foil_fresh
ElBrunzy's solution is correct , alternatively you can put orpheus.bat as the very last thing in your autoexec.bat

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Reply 53 of 66, by 640K!enough

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foil_fresh wrote on 2021-04-12, 04:38:

My question is, where should I place a line in my config.sys or autoexec.bat when I want to start the sound card on boot? I had it at the top of my autoexec.bat but it seemed to cause problems with environment variables and stopped ctmouse from loading as well as things like set path not loading.

Yes, it can certainly be invoked from AUTOEXEC.BAT, and you have a few options. As ElBrunzy mentioned above, the simplest solution is to add:

CALL C:\ORPHEUS\ORPHEUS.BAT

This line, anywhere in your AUTOEXEC.BAT, will cause the batch file to be invoked, and control will return to AUTOEXEC.BAT when execution of ORPHEUS.BAT is complete. You may need to adjust the path if you put ORPHINIT in a location other than C:\ORPHEUS.

If you simply use the batch file name (without "CALL"), then you are transferring control to that file, and any following lines will not be processed.

You can also just move the invocation of ORPHEUS.BAT, exactly as you currently have it, to the end of your AUTOEXEC.BAT, but then you have to make sure that no installers add lines to the end of the file.

Also, if you don't need (or want) the BLASTER or ULTRA16 environment variables to be set, you can similarly add the following line to your AUTOEXEC.BAT, at any location (again, correcting the path, if necessary):

C:\ORPHEUS\ORPHINIT

For the mixer issues, I am still experimenting, both to figure out where the problem comes from, and whether there is anything we can do to correct the behaviour. There are a few things that could cause this, and some of them cannot be helped. As keropi said, if the game's driver manipulates the mixer registers on start-up, there isn't much we can do. If it's something else, then we may have a few options.

Reply 55 of 66, by ElBrunzy

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640K!enough wrote on 2021-04-12, 15:48:

For the mixer issues, I am still experimenting, both to figure out where the problem comes from, and whether there is anything we can do to correct the behaviour. There are a few things that could cause this, and some of them cannot be helped. As keropi said, if the game's driver manipulates the mixer registers on start-up, there isn't much we can do. If it's something else, then we may have a few options.

I'm glad you acknowledge the issue. I hope it is clear that it's not really problematic. For now, it's just the intro speech of ultima 8 that seem badly mixed, maybe due to a poorly mastered french translation ? Certainly the original english version is better. When I noticed it I remembered the PCMVol settings and had the idea to try it. And realize it did not seem work. Orphinit being a work in progress I though you might appreciate I report you the concern. In about a month I'll be able to test with an AWE32 which have a similar mixer than the SBPro and compare some test. I usually do not play with the PCM/Wave volume, so I don't even have an idea of what could be a working scenario 😅

I would not be surprise even creative lab's Talking Parrot max out volume at init time too. Searching the web about a quick way to output pcm data on the soundblaster using qbasic gave the impression that maxing out volume at init time was a common practice. This small qbasic 1.0 program would skip the volume init and just output random 8bit data on port 220. I though it could be used to do some testing.

sb pcm qbasic 1.0

made from part of this tutorial

DEFINT A-Z: RANDOMIZE TIMER
CONST BaseAddr = &H220
CONST CommAddr = BaseAddr + &HC, DataAddr = BaseAddr + &HA
DO
OUT CommAddr, &H10
OUT CommAddr, RND * 255
LOOP UNTIL INKEY$ <> ""
keropi wrote on 2021-04-12, 15:43:

This is an old issue with every card out there when you try to mix more than one source... this is why the more "sophisticated" (if that's a good word for it) setups rely on an external manual mixer ...
I had the same issues with various games and MT-32/SC-55 volume balancing and I've been using a mixer for years to rectify this. Once you go that route you'll never go back relying to soundcard driver mixers...

I once had a Yamaha MG16/6FX; it was the best of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the epoch of belief, it was the season of light, it was the spring of hopes, until I spilled the accursed liquid on it! I promised myself some day I'll get another one, maybe more adapted. What's yours, keropi ?

Reply 56 of 66, by keropi

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🤣
I use the Roland MX-5 which also looks good next to retro systems

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Reply 57 of 66, by 640K!enough

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2021-04-13, 03:01:

I'm glad you acknowledge the issue. I hope it is clear that it's not really problematic.

Actually, it is problematic; it is something that should work properly and can be made to work properly, but doesn't at the moment. Thanks for paying attention, and especially for reporting it. Now that I am aware of it, I have to try fixing it. How that ends up being implemented will depend on the type of compromises that have to be made to get it working.

Access to a real Sound Blaster Pro would be useful for testing and comparison, but I should be able to manage without one. In any case, I will delay the release of 0.53ß a little longer, until all of the corrections already discussed are integrated, and this mixer business is corrected.

Reply 58 of 66, by 640K!enough

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2021-04-10, 02:41:

1: My problem is that I cannot lower the PCM volume on my card. SB audio digital sound is too loud in some game, I'm testing in ultima 8 but no games seem affected by the PCM volume. I have a sc88 that's connected to the line-in of the orpheus which it also control. So I wanted to lower the PCM sound while keeping the Line-IN to a maximum, but no values on the PCMVol seem to do any effect.

I have done a good deal of experimentation since your report, and the conclusion is that this appears to be a flaw in the design of the CS4237 or a bug in the on-board firmware. Since the firmware is no longer being updated, the chance of it being fixed that way is mostly non-existent.

The conclusion of my testing is that there is a bug that causes the SB mixer register for PCM volume ("voice" volume in Creative terminology) to be ignored when the internal Crystal FM synthesiser is disabled. However, in your particular case, there is a work-around. Since you are not using FM for music in that game, you can simply modify your ORPHINIT configuration file as follows:

  1. Set FMMode=off or FMMode=CrystalFM (if you use the line that is already there, remember to remove the semi-colon (;) at the beginning of the line).
  2. Make sure that Mode=sb
  3. Set PCMVol as desired in the sb-mode section (1 to 7; 0 is mute).
  4. Adjust LineVol as desired in sb-mode section (1 to 7; 0 is mute).
  5. Remember to set WTKludge and LineKludge to off, or leave the semi-colon (;) at the biginning of the line to make it a comment, which will disable the feature.

If I discover a better solution, you can be sure that it will be implemented in an upcoming version of ORPHINIT.

Reply 59 of 66, by 640K!enough

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After a bit of a delay, I think we're ready for a new release. Allow me to officially introduce version 0.53ß. This version has some significant changes under the hood, so please let me know if you find any new problems (or if something I thought was fixed really isn't).

Changelog

  • Generally re-worked Plug and Play detection and initialisation code to improve predictability and reliability on most systems.
  • Changed the INI default for digital output to disabled, so that the majority who are not using it can avoid its occasional side-effects.
  • Changed the Sound Blaster mixer setting names in the INI file (in the sb-mode section). They are now prepended with "SB-", such as "SB-FMVol", etc., to make them easier to search for, and easier to distinguish from their WSS-mode counterparts. If you're keeping an existing INI file, you will have to change these to reflect the new names; otherwise default values will be used.
  • Removed the WTKludge and LineKludge options, as they should no longer be useful. These settings are no longer read or processed.

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