ok so i used the command /opl i got the sound to play but it sounds like trash
all the instruments are wrong and it sounds really crap
not sure whats going on as it plays fine in other players under windows

vkcpolice wrote on 2021-06-06, 04:08:

ok so i used the command /opl i got the sound to play but it sounds like trash
all the instruments are wrong and it sounds really crap
not sure whats going on as it plays fine in other players under windows

I do not think you understand how Midi works under DOS. In Windows you have the Microsoft GM/GS Software Synth that can be used with any sound card. There is no such thing in DOS. You have to use your soundcard's hardware or external Midi synth. Your SB16/Vibra only has that 'crappy' FM Synth. Without attaching an external Midi device or Waveblaster card you only have FM synth under DOS.
So your problem is NOT player related. Without an external Midi synth you should not even try e.g. MegaMid since it only supports MPU-401 compatible real Midi devices which your SB16/Vibra does not have under DOS.
Here is how your SB16/Vibra should sound under DOS with its FM synth:
https://youtu.be/9hzxE1_nl0k?t=101

I strongly think you should study more before posting these 'does not work' type messages. There are plenty of sources here on Vogons, on Youtube etc. ...

Falcosoft wrote on 2021-06-06, 06:53:

I do not think you understand how Midi works under DOS. In Windows you have the Microsoft GM/GS Software Synth that can be used […]
Show full quote

vkcpolice wrote on 2021-06-06, 04:08:

ok so i used the command /opl i got the sound to play but it sounds like trash
all the instruments are wrong and it sounds really crap
not sure whats going on as it plays fine in other players under windows

I do not think you understand how Midi works under DOS. In Windows you have the Microsoft GM/GS Software Synth that can be used with any sound card. There is no such thing in DOS. You have to use your soundcard's hardware or external Midi synth. Your SB16/Vibra only has that 'crappy' FM Synth. Without attaching an external Midi device or Waveblaster card you only have FM synth under DOS.
So your problem is NOT player related. Without an external Midi synth you should not even try e.g. MegaMid since it only supports MPU-401 compatible real Midi devices which your SB16/Vibra does not have under DOS.
Here is how your SB16/Vibra should sound under DOS with its FM synth:
https://youtu.be/9hzxE1_nl0k?t=101

I strongly think you should study more before posting these 'does not work' type messages. There are plenty of sources here on Vogons, on Youtube etc. ...

how come dos games that have midi file play fine under dos?

vkcpolice wrote on 2021-06-06, 08:23:

Falcosoft wrote on 2021-06-06, 06:53:

I do not think you understand how Midi works under DOS. In Windows you have the Microsoft GM/GS Software Synth that can be used […]
Show full quote

vkcpolice wrote on 2021-06-06, 04:08:

ok so i used the command /opl i got the sound to play but it sounds like trash
all the instruments are wrong and it sounds really crap
not sure whats going on as it plays fine in other players under windows

I do not think you understand how Midi works under DOS. In Windows you have the Microsoft GM/GS Software Synth that can be used with any sound card. There is no such thing in DOS. You have to use your soundcard's hardware or external Midi synth. Your SB16/Vibra only has that 'crappy' FM Synth. Without attaching an external Midi device or Waveblaster card you only have FM synth under DOS.
So your problem is NOT player related. Without an external Midi synth you should not even try e.g. MegaMid since it only supports MPU-401 compatible real Midi devices which your SB16/Vibra does not have under DOS.
Here is how your SB16/Vibra should sound under DOS with its FM synth:
https://youtu.be/9hzxE1_nl0k?t=101

I strongly think you should study more before posting these 'does not work' type messages. There are plenty of sources here on Vogons, on Youtube etc. ...

how come dos games that have midi file play fine under dos?

What games exactly? DOS games usually do not use General Midi files when using FM synths for music but program the FM synth with fine tuned custom instruments. In such cases FM synth can sound very good , sometimes even better than Midi option (such an example is Dune 1.). In cases when DOS games use the same Midi file for FM synth as for real Midi devices the outcome is usually not so great (few examples are e.g. Doom or Duke3d).
Doom:
https://youtu.be/t9IRWOzs0T0?t=198
Duke3d:
https://youtu.be/hFX63IGmbwY?t=126

ok thanks for that info. thats why when i downloaded the jazz jackrabbit ost in midi it sounded different than when you were playing the game.
looks like i will be getting that wave blaster or sc55 😀

vkcpolice wrote on 2021-06-07, 03:07:

ok thanks for that info. thats why when i downloaded the jazz jackrabbit ost in midi it sounded different than when you were playing the game.
looks like i will be getting that wave blaster or sc55 😀

No. It's because the DOS version of jazz jackrabbit does not use either Midi or FM synth for music. It uses tracker/MOD music. So neither a waveblater card nor an SC-55 will help in this case. Jazz jackrabbit can only sound better with a GUS.
Your whole story has nothing to do with Midi at all.
Please, do your homework next time...
You can download its original tracker music in s3m format from here:
http://www.mirsoft.info/gmb/music_info.php?id_file=NDc5

no need to be rude or say do your homework next time....
this is a online forum to ask for help and to learn!
not to tell people oh go do your research dont ask questions here...
seriously some people on this forum have nothing better to do....

vkcpolice wrote on 2021-06-07, 06:29:

no need to be rude or say do your homework next time.... this is a online forum to ask for help and to learn! not to tell people […]
Show full quote

no need to be rude or say do your homework next time....
this is a online forum to ask for help and to learn!
not to tell people oh go do your research dont ask questions here...
seriously some people on this forum have nothing better to do....

I do not think I was rude. I just simply mentioned that you should have given more info all along as asked by Kamerat in one of his first reply in this very topic. Instead you were asking irrelevant questions without telling us clearly what you have and what you would like to achieve. It took 2 pages to find out that in spite of you were asking about Midi related stuff your game has nothing to do with Midi at all.
But you are completely right in 1 thing: I really have better things to do than answering your questions, finding example videos, gamerips for you etc..
Bye

if you really read the thread i first asked about a midi player then in my last post i simply asked why dos games sound better than midi file running under dosmid.
instead you tell me i should research blah blah blah
i forgot that this was a online forum where we could learn from each other and discuss such topics

Please remember that everyone is on a different level in terms of experience and knowledge here on this forum. For many of us it's basic knowledge that Jazz Jackrabbit is not midi in-game, but that might not be apparent to everyone or someone just starting out in this hobby. You can read more in the community guidelines.

So how does dos game music work then?
i always thought that they were mid files that just got sent to the soundcard and the on board synth did the rest?
for example games like commander keen 4 are under 1mb in size this includes the soundtrack and all the game files
i thought thats how games were so small in size because all the game was doing was sending instructions to your soundcard on what instruments to play
sorry this has sorta gone off the original topic but im trying to learn all this stuff

vkcpolice wrote on 2021-06-07, 09:21:

So how does dos game music work then? i always thought that they were mid files that just got sent to the soundcard and the on b […]
Show full quote

So how does dos game music work then?
i always thought that they were mid files that just got sent to the soundcard and the on board synth did the rest?
for example games like commander keen 4 are under 1mb in size this includes the soundtrack and all the game files
i thought thats how games were so small in size because all the game was doing was sending instructions to your soundcard on what instruments to play
sorry this has sorta gone off the original topic but im trying to learn all this stuff

There are very many different ways games synthesize their music. Most DOS games comply to Adlib's (OPL2) or Sound Blaster Pro's (OPL3) implementation of FM Synthesis, which is really not related to MIDI.

vetz wrote on 2021-06-07, 08:48:

Please remember that everyone is on a different level in terms of experience and knowledge here on this forum. For many of us it's basic knowledge that Jazz Jackrabbit is not midi in-game, but that might not be apparent to everyone or someone just starting out in this hobby. You can read more in the community guidelines.

You are completely right, but the problem is OP has not even mentioned Jazz Jackrabbit until his last posts. So we went through many posts about how DosMid does not work, sounds bad etc. without even mentioning what the 'bad sound' was compared to.

appiah4 wrote on 2021-06-07, 09:25:

There are very many different ways games synthesize their music. Most DOS games comply to Adlib's (OPL2) or Sound Blaster Pro's (OPL3) implementation of FM Synthesis, which is really not related to MIDI.

Yes, but in case of Jazz Jackrabbit neither Adlib's (OPL2) or Sound Blaster Pro's (OPL3) or Midi is used but a 4th option: Tracker music in s3m format. So FM synth or Midi is not involved at all. Tracker music uses digital samples similarly as other digital audio effects.

Falcosoft wrote on 2021-06-07, 14:05:

appiah4 wrote on 2021-06-07, 09:25:

There are very many different ways games synthesize their music. Most DOS games comply to Adlib's (OPL2) or Sound Blaster Pro's (OPL3) implementation of FM Synthesis, which is really not related to MIDI.

Yes, but in case of Jazz Jackrabbit neither Adlib's (OPL2) or Sound Blaster Pro's (OPL3) or Midi is used but a 4th option: Tracker music in s3m format. So FM synth or Midi is not involved at all. Tracker music uses digital samples similarly as other digital audio effects.

Oh wow I didn't know this, was tracker music even a thing in DOS games? That's kind of Amiga's turf. 😀

appiah4 wrote on 2021-06-07, 14:51:

Oh wow I didn't know this, was tracker music even a thing in DOS games? That's kind of Amiga's turf. 😀

Some examples off the top of my head:

Pinball Dreams/Illusions/Fantasies (naturally! since these are Amiga ports)
Epic Pinball
Linewars II
Jazz Jackrabbit (as above)

I think I also recall at least one of the Ishar RPG's using digital music that sounded quite tracker-like.

Most of them that support it, do sound better on a GUS.

is there a way to rip the music from these games and play them on a soundblaster?

Which? The tracker type games listed above, or those with FM/midi tracks?

both

It's going to vary per game. Tracker based games often have the mod/s3m file in the game directory (perhaps with the extension obfuscated). For FM and/or MIDI games, it's going to be down to how it was implemented; Dos wasn't anywhere near as standardised as Windows.