Scythifuge wrote on 2021-06-10, 00:31:

Greetings, […]
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Greetings,

I found a bunch of CRT monitors for CHEAP. I have to drive two hours to pick them up, and someone 20 minutes from that location is giving me a free, new-condition 17" CRT. For those of you who read or responded to my posts about my NOS KDS 19" tweaking out and now needing repaired (I found two techs willing to look at it and my dim Gateway EV910, a 1.3hr drive in the opposite direction,) so finding these other CRTs is great. However...

They are all 20" and 21" monitors. My retro desk was already too small for the KDS; I had to pull the desk away from the wall, which sucks. However, I may install a sliding keyboard tray. Part of the idea was that I wanted to set up the area to look like I stepped out of a time machine into 1999. 20-21" CRT monitors are going to be MASSIVE. However, for super cheap, I can get a monitor, keyboard, and a Pentium III machine; a GP7-500, GP7-550 (2,) a GP7-700 (grabbing that for sure, if it has ISA,) and E-4200 (3.) All come with an optical drive and a floppy drive. Also available are retro disks and books, such as a Dos/WFW manual which I assume is the certificate book. I have been trying to find one to add to my Win95 and 98SE books/cd-keys, though they asre pricey and I have a feeling I can get one of these for five bucks, given the deal I'm getting on the CRTs & PCs. If I found out about the deal sooner, I could have gotten a 19" Gateway. All well...

I am thinking that I should get doubles of the CRTs, because then I will have spare parts, and even though I decided to have the KDS looked at professionally, I need to learn how to discharge CRTs and replace components on them, and learning to recap motherboards and Voodoo 5 cards is probably a good idea, due to rarity and expense.

I am looking for opinions on the following CRT models:

Nanao Flexscan G60iW (21")
Nanao Flexscan T2-20 (21")
Idek Iiyama (20-21")

I can't find ANYTHING! I assume they are all white/beige. I have no idea what color the free 17" is, but I'll take it. My Athlon XP machine is a black set up, and the 17" might be a Dell.

Thanks!
Scythifuge

I am no expert, but IMHO the problem with CRTs is their consumable nature, so no matter how good one model might have been when new ( or at least in-spec), today it might be an un-focusable turd with unfixable geometry issues, terminally dim picture, a dead color gun or who knows how many other possible issues . The cheapest (when new) worst-rated monitor in the lot may actually be the best one at this point if it has seen less use than the others. Personally, if I were inclined to make it a "labor of love" type restoration, I would take everything that I can get cheaply (maybe consider a power-on tests first) and then patiently sort through it all . Decisions about what to fix/sell and what to e-waste (or part out) can be taken later .

darry wrote on 2021-06-10, 00:54:

Scythifuge wrote on 2021-06-10, 00:31:

Greetings, […]
Show full quote

Greetings,

I found a bunch of CRT monitors for CHEAP. I have to drive two hours to pick them up, and someone 20 minutes from that location is giving me a free, new-condition 17" CRT. For those of you who read or responded to my posts about my NOS KDS 19" tweaking out and now needing repaired (I found two techs willing to look at it and my dim Gateway EV910, a 1.3hr drive in the opposite direction,) so finding these other CRTs is great. However...

They are all 20" and 21" monitors. My retro desk was already too small for the KDS; I had to pull the desk away from the wall, which sucks. However, I may install a sliding keyboard tray. Part of the idea was that I wanted to set up the area to look like I stepped out of a time machine into 1999. 20-21" CRT monitors are going to be MASSIVE. However, for super cheap, I can get a monitor, keyboard, and a Pentium III machine; a GP7-500, GP7-550 (2,) a GP7-700 (grabbing that for sure, if it has ISA,) and E-4200 (3.) All come with an optical drive and a floppy drive. Also available are retro disks and books, such as a Dos/WFW manual which I assume is the certificate book. I have been trying to find one to add to my Win95 and 98SE books/cd-keys, though they asre pricey and I have a feeling I can get one of these for five bucks, given the deal I'm getting on the CRTs & PCs. If I found out about the deal sooner, I could have gotten a 19" Gateway. All well...

I am thinking that I should get doubles of the CRTs, because then I will have spare parts, and even though I decided to have the KDS looked at professionally, I need to learn how to discharge CRTs and replace components on them, and learning to recap motherboards and Voodoo 5 cards is probably a good idea, due to rarity and expense.

I am looking for opinions on the following CRT models:

Nanao Flexscan G60iW (21")
Nanao Flexscan T2-20 (21")
Idek Iiyama (20-21")

I can't find ANYTHING! I assume they are all white/beige. I have no idea what color the free 17" is, but I'll take it. My Athlon XP machine is a black set up, and the 17" might be a Dell.

Thanks!
Scythifuge

I am no expert, but IMHO the problem with CRTs is their consumable nature, so no matter how good one model might have been when new ( or at least in-spec), today it might be an un-focusable turd with unfixable geometry issues, terminally dim picture, a dead color gun or who knows how many other possible issues . The cheapest (when new) worst-rated monitor in the lot may actually be the best one at this point if it has seen less use than the others. Personally, if I were inclined to make it a "labor of love" type restoration, I would take everything that I can get cheaply (maybe consider a power-on tests first) and then patiently sort through it all . Decisions about what to fix/sell and what to e-waste (or part out) can be taken later .

I agree, completely. However, LCDs seem to have a short lifespan as well, I have had more than one die, and my very first LCD lasted me maybe 3 years or so (a Samsung 24" 16:10, can't recall the model,) though LCDs are definitely easier to lug around, but equally difficult to dispose of. I have been researching the models mentioned by you and others in the other threads, and will probably invest in an OSSC.

I am bringing my laptop in order to hook them up if the guy doesn't have a way for me to check them out. I won't take any that have obvious issues. The info I am finding is that these are relatively high end CRTs, and if I am successful with learning some soldering and electronics maintenance, it may be worth tinkering with them. I don't game for as many hours in a row that used to, though I am sure that once I get my set up the way I want, I may have some bouts, so if I get a few decent CRTs, I think I would be set. I used to have to have a 19", but now that I am older and these are getting more rare, I can use a 17". I can get a monitor and PC of my choice for $60, and the price goes down if I buy more.

I do think that one of the monitors is from the early to mid 90's, so I probably won't buy that one. I'm going to do a quick google search on site, because I am wondering he gave me the wrong model numbers, since I can't find specs on these.

Sound like a good deal.

Never knew those Dos/wfw certs and books were that rare though. I got a box full of the damn things 😉:

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-10, 01:22:

Sound like a good deal.

Never knew those Dos/wfw certs and books were that rare though. I got a box full of the damn things 😉:

I am hoping for nice, bright screens! I am hoping for a nice crisp picture with a great dot pitch. One of the projects I have in the queue is rebuilding my 1999 Gateway system (last system I ever had before building my own;) getting it as close as I can, but maybe with some upgrades, as my Gateway was a Pentium III 450 with 64mb of RAM and a 6x DVD drive. Interestingly, the available Gateways are in the same exact tower case, so by grabbing any of the GP7 systems, I will have an upgraded version of what I had. I'm definitely getting this retro LAN put together so my son, girlfriend, and my best friend who played these games back in the day, can play some Blood, Quake, Doom, Wing Commander Armada, and Warcraft. I am really excited to show them the old days. I may turn one of these PCs I am getting into a MP/file server, until I can build my dual P3 someday.

I've found HP LCDs to be very sturdy. I've had a 17 HP LCD since for over 2 decades and it still functions perfectly.

I find smaller LCD TVs handy as well because of the input port selection. They are cheap as chips as well. I left a Panasonic one in storage with the screen part down and it looked like ink had run through it when I went to use it. Took the TV got the screen part number, did a seach on a place over in Oz that supplied laptop LCD screens. Order the correct replacement. It arrived in a few days and I fitted it in the Panasonic TV. All fixed.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-10, 01:38:

I've found HP LCDs to be very sturdy. I've had a 17 HP LCD since for over 2 decades and it still functions perfectly.

I find smaller LCD TVs handy as well because of the input port selection. They are cheap as chips as well. I left a Panasonic one in storage with the screen part down and it looked like ink had run through it when I went to use it. Took the TV got the screen part number, did a seach on a place over in Oz that supplied laptop LCD screens. Order the correct replacement. It arrived in a few days and I fitted it in the Panasonic TV. All fixed.

I have an HP LP2065 that I ordered before learning about the 720x400 issue (another reason to get an OSSC for the 1:1 mode.) I like it a lot, though it developed weird spots in the upper corner after having it for a little while. I can't see them with certain colors and brightness levels, so I'm overlooking it. It is what I am using to finish the software side of my Ultimate Voodoo Box while dealing with CRT issue. I will probably buy a spare if I can get one for cheap. Some have recommended a particular 24" AOC monitor for it's legacy support with VGA, 144Hz, 1:1, and 4:3 modes. However, it is physically too wide for me to use it on my desk, so I need some thing like that , but a little smaller.

Another thing I want to try is finding a small projector that can give me a 70Hz 4:3 picture at 20.5x20.5 inches (320x200 to 1024x768 tops,) and which will allow me to place it in front of my keyboard. I would affix a screen to the back of the hutch, and the sides of the hutch would help with lighting. I don't know if such a projector exists, but one can hope, and I have seen some DIY projector projects, so who knows what the future may bring.

Another interesting tidbit is that I keep seeing article after article with titles such as "Your grandma's tv is the latest high tech item," and hundreds and hundreds of posts where people are scouring for CRTs, and prices on ebay are going up. Another article mentioned a CRT renaissance, and many arcades are struggling to maintain CRTs while putting off switching to LCD displays. There are youtube vids of people gaming on a modern PC with modern games on a CRT, and talking about how awesome it is. Advances in technology and manufacturing could lead to a CRT comeback. There are other technologies that use phosphors, and were going to go into production around 2010-11, but was put off due to LCDs flooding the market.

I was gaming on CRT the other night, one of these little buggers https://i.imgur.com/tbb1EkZ.jpg (not my pic) has composite (well I guess luminance) input and I plugged it into a namco "Ms Pacman" edition joystick for a few games of Pole Position and Galaga... my 8 bit days were 80% monochrome, banished to the spare B/W TV 🤣

But anyhoo, sounds like you've got a good find. I am worried about my "stashed" monitors, how they are getting on with cap age etc. at least it's keeping the hours off the tubes. The filaments can only lose so many atoms and the getters can only soak up so many to keep good vacuum. I guess ideal monitor to find, would be one that's fired up monthly to run/write a report, then turned off again all month. Low tube hours, but keeps the caps exercised and their little habits of growing whiskers and perishing their seals under control.

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-06-10, 02:34:

I was gaming on CRT the other night, one of these little buggers https://i.imgur.com/tbb1EkZ.jpg (not my pic) has composite (well I guess luminance) input and I plugged it into a namco "Ms Pacman" edition joystick for a few games of Pole Position and Galaga... my 8 bit days were 80% monochrome, banished to the spare B/W TV 🤣

But anyhoo, sounds like you've got a good find. I am worried about my "stashed" monitors, how they are getting on with cap age etc. at least it's keeping the hours off the tubes. The filaments can only lose so many atoms and the getters can only soak up so many to keep good vacuum. I guess ideal monitor to find, would be one that's fired up monthly to run/write a report, then turned off again all month. Low tube hours, but keeps the caps exercised and their little habits of growing whiskers and perishing their seals under control.

It is why I am compelled to learn how to recap electronics, replace diodes, repair crack joints, etc. I think that once I get a nice little collection of CRTs going, I'll rotate them. I found a class on Udemy that looks interesting, and once my workshop is organized, I'm going to open up that little VGA monitor I have.

Funny enough I picked up 9 CRT's few weeks ago off freecycle.
The guy was a retired TV technician clearing out his storage unit, He had already given away a truck load of TV's to a museum but they didn't want the screens .
He was surprised about the amount of interest his listing had gotten so I only took a 14" as I've already a 17" and 19" in the garage which don't fit on my desk in it's currant setup, I'm hoping to be able to squeeze in the 14"
but said if you don't get rid of any let me know and I'll collect the rest.

He contacted me a week later saying no one else had come so I got them all.
As much as I'd love to keep then I don't need 10 CRT's so going though and testing then offer them out for free.
It was more about saving them then needing them .

Testing them though I forgot how nice a CRT can look, black black's , pixels are less noticeable, image has more of a warm glow. Not saying I want to use a CRT full time but they definitely have their advantages.

So if they are only going to be thrown out and you have the space and wont your not out of pocket much at the end I'd grab them.

As for the software certificates, I'd wait Not like you need them ASAP and think you'll be able to find them for cheap eventually

chinny22 wrote on 2021-06-10, 09:16:

Funny enough I picked up 9 CRT's few weeks ago off freecycle. The guy was a retired TV technician clearing out his storage unit, […]
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Funny enough I picked up 9 CRT's few weeks ago off freecycle.
The guy was a retired TV technician clearing out his storage unit, He had already given away a truck load of TV's to a museum but they didn't want the screens .
He was surprised about the amount of interest his listing had gotten so I only took a 14" as I've already a 17" and 19" in the garage which don't fit on my desk in it's currant setup, I'm hoping to be able to squeeze in the 14"
but said if you don't get rid of any let me know and I'll collect the rest.

He contacted me a week later saying no one else had come so I got them all.
As much as I'd love to keep then I don't need 10 CRT's so going though and testing then offer them out for free.
It was more about saving them then needing them .

Testing them though I forgot how nice a CRT can look, black black's , pixels are less noticeable, image has more of a warm glow. Not saying I want to use a CRT full time but they definitely have their advantages.

So if they are only going to be thrown out and you have the space and wont your not out of pocket much at the end I'd grab them.

As for the software certificates, I'd wait Not like you need them ASAP and think you'll be able to find them for cheap eventually

I never heard of freecycle. Thanks for letting me know about that! If you are getting rid of any 19" for free and in good shape, please let me know, I would be happy to pay the shipping costs! Especially if it is beige/white. However, a black or silver/black 19" CRT would be awesome to pair with my AthlonXP PC. I am making room in my insulated shed for extra CRT units. My workshop is in a basement, so I and I am hooking up fans on timers and the exhaust van/vent on a timer in order to move all of the moist basement air out, and will work on broken monitors and other electronics down there. Someone gave me a broken Playstation 1 and a Playstation 2, so I will practice soldering/desoldering/modding on those in addition to the 13" monitor and some other electronics.

If I can get the certificate book for super cheap, I will probably grab it so I can complete my certificate book collection. They sit upon the top of the hutch of the retro desk, along with the big User Guide from Microsoft, The Official Book of Ultima 2nd Edition, DOS For Dummies (because I think it is funny, hehe,) and boxed software such as Windows 95, WIndows 98 SE, Grolier 1995, Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego, Chessmaster 4000, The Print Shop, The OriginFX Screensaver, and a couple other titles. Along side that is a beige plastic CD rack full of Windows 3.x and 95 software such as The Oregon Trail, Highlander Screensaver, and other retro discs. It truly does look like the mid-to-late 90's on that desk! I have certificate for Win95 OSR2 and a Gateway one for Windows 98SE, and I actually use the cd keys from them for the installs. I have everything backed up on a few drives and SD cards, though I still have original Dos 6.22 and WFW 3.11 floppies. I'm looking for a boxed, non-upgrade version of Windows XP Professional and other software from the Athlon XP era so I can set up my other retro desk to look like it is 2006, hehehe!

WOW, these are HUGE. I just got back from our little road trip. I bought a GP7-550, a GP7-700, two of these giant monitors, a 17"Gateway that looks good, and an industrial looking ARX PSU that looks pristine and has more molex plugs (I have to use splitters right now.) $135 for the lot, and I may go back in a month or two if they still have the others. The free 17" NEC looks new, and the person who gave it to me gave me a set of Labtec PC speakers. It is black, so it is going with my AthlonXP system. I'll try to get a pic, but if I use one of these effers as my main display, I will have to use another table/small desk for the keyboard and mouse, or install a pull out keyboard tray (most realistic option.) However, doing that will mess with the retro style of this desk (same model I had back in the early 90's with my C64 and then my first PC, a 486SX-33.) What I am trying to figure out is how to set it up next to the desk and use the 17" Gateway, at least until I get my KDS repaired.

My Asus P2B is acting up (probably needs recapped.) It has been very annoying. However, the GP7-700 has an ISA slot (Tabor 3 board,) so now I can swap out the motherboard and upgrade my 550 Ultimate Retro Voodoo box to a 700, which is better for my Voodoo5. I will also research to see how big I can go with the CPU. I read that the headers may be proprietary, so that may be an obstacle.

Another thing I wanted to do is to recreate my Gateway 2000 from 1999, a P3 450. Well, these GP7's have the SAME EXACT case! They both came with SuperDisk drives!!! I also found a cheap NOS SuperDisk parallel drive which is on the way, and I have another one here, so I will be able to actually use the SuperDisks between multiple systems, which is awesome! My Gateway had a Voodoo3 3000 AGP, and I happen to have one. I also upgraded it back in the day with a Sound Blaster Live!, which I also happen to have lying around. I just need a DVD drive. It will be like having my old, last prebuilt PC I ever had, but with CPU, RAM, and HDD size upgrades. It is weird that after I decided to rebuild my old PC, I find the case a week later.

Needless to say, I feel stoked, and I need this after what happened to the KDS. I hope to get the KDS to a tech by next week, and when my workshop is ready, I will start tinkering with soldering/desoldering/discharging caps and taking Udemy classes on electronics repair, and hopefully fix my old Gateway 19" and a little old school 13" monitor. I am not giving up on the NOS KDS, as I truly believe that it is either a loose connection, rotted capacitor, or crack joints from age as it sat new in the box in a warehouse for over ten years!

People sometimes give away their stashed CRT monitors for free or token price. Just be patient and watch out for advertisements. If you're not happy with the image quality you can always resell it. I grabbed mine basically for token price as well. CRTs from 2002 onward are quite good.

17" models supporting resolution up to 1280x1024 at 60Hz are perfect for 386-Pentium/K6 as you don't need more than 1024x768 at 85Hz. Better 17" models support resolution up to 1920 x 1440 at 75Hz (more useful for Athlon XP/64).
19" seems perfect for 1280x1024, for 1600x1200 it's going to be better to have a larger screen size.
20-21" will be rather large and will likely come from an office and have many hours on them.

Another thing to remember about big CRTs is that they are very effective space heaters. Nice in winter, not so nice in summer. Hence you might wanna opt for Energy Star capable ones that have power off/standby features, otherwise any time it's lit, even blanked, it's putting out a couple hundred watts, whereas most PCs will be at a quarter of peak watts while idling, and only put out a couple or three hundred when busy.

EDIT: BTW some monitors will respond to a black screen by going into standby after a timeout, so even OS and architecture that are unaware of power saving you can get them to go to standby by using a screen blanking screensaver.

They are cheap enough with the PCs/parts I am getting that they are worth it. I mean, working SuperDisk drives are in most of the available PCs, and I could sell 3-4 of them on Ebay and make some money and get all of this stuff for free. When these monitors die, I will use them to practice repairs. I am hoping to take that NOS KDS to a tech next week, and I have faith that we'll get it working. I will keep looking as well. If I learn to recap these things and I collect enough of them, I could have CRTs for life. The one Nanao I got has a power saving button on the front of it.