What is good CRT?
I had couple of 21 Eizos and Dells(1130) back in day.. but they had flat screens and there horizontal lines in middle of picture, afaik as i understand that was feature of Trinitron technology.. so these are no go.. and probably no flat screens? These could do 1600@1200 - 100 Hz or so.. Once i tasted 85Hz a 100 Hz later, i could get back, so probably some 17 with 60/75Hz etc 1600x1200 would be good choice.

darry wrote on 2021-06-11, 20:14:

16:10 is almost dead. The Philips 252B9 is one of the last ones still available new with both 70Hz support without frameskipping and an explicit 4:3 mode . It is not cheap (prices have gone up since I bought one) and requires an OSSC for the best possible results .

16:10 is far from dead at least on the laptop front. 16:10 these days is considered a "productivity" aspect ratio becasue I think by now a lot of people realized that 16:9 is fine for watching tv and movies but is terrible for using a computer.

Laptops are wasting lots of screen space by using 16:9, but it the same for 8+ years.. there are only few new exceptions. Some 1280x800 and 1920x1200 in ultra mobile machines and some Surface Thinkpad clones etc, but they usually using some very strange akward resolution, which is not supported by games, even when its cut by half.
BTW when i last time looked for new phone, even there i had problem to find some decent one with 16:9 ration, they are now even worse - typical is now 2520 × 1080, but there it maybe make sense for big screen area, unless some ugly hole in middle of screen for cameras..

darry wrote on 2021-06-11, 20:14:

16:10 is almost dead. The Philips 252B9 is one of the last ones still available new with both 70Hz support without frameskipping and an explicit 4:3 mode . It is not cheap (prices have gone up since I bought one) and requires an OSSC for the best possible results .

Dell has a long history of producing 1600x1200 (16:10) monitors with explicit aspect ratio control. I have used the U2408, U2410, and U2415 (each purchased new over the past decade or so). The U2415 is Displayport/HDMI only so it's not suitable for older computers.

The U2407 / U2408 / U2410 are reasonably common on the used market. The U2407/U2408 have somewhat lousy input lag, but the U2410 uses an IPS panel and is better.

I believe Dell's current lineup includes the U2421 and P2421. The former is Displayport/USBc/HDMI only. The P2421 has VGA, DVI-D, DisplayPort, and HDMI inputs. It still has aspect ratio control (16:10, 5:4, 4:3)

bZbZbZ wrote on 2021-06-12, 14:20:

Dell has a long history of producing 1600x1200 (16:10) monitors with explicit aspect ratio control. I have used the U2408, U241 […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2021-06-11, 20:14:

16:10 is almost dead. The Philips 252B9 is one of the last ones still available new with both 70Hz support without frameskipping and an explicit 4:3 mode . It is not cheap (prices have gone up since I bought one) and requires an OSSC for the best possible results .

Dell has a long history of producing 1600x1200 (16:10) monitors with explicit aspect ratio control. I have used the U2408, U2410, and U2415 (each purchased new over the past decade or so). The U2415 is Displayport/HDMI only so it's not suitable for older computers.

The U2407 / U2408 / U2410 are reasonably common on the used market. The U2407/U2408 have somewhat lousy input lag, but the U2410 uses an IPS panel and is better.

I believe Dell's current lineup includes the U2421 and P2421. The former is Displayport/USBc/HDMI only. The P2421 has VGA, DVI-D, DisplayPort, and HDMI inputs. It still has aspect ratio control (16:10, 5:4, 4:3)

But do they support 70Hz input and, if they do, do they skip frames when displaying it ?

darry wrote on 2021-06-12, 16:05:

bZbZbZ wrote on 2021-06-12, 14:20:

Dell has a long history of producing 1600x1200 (16:10) monitors with explicit aspect ratio control. I have used the U2408, U241 […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2021-06-11, 20:14:

16:10 is almost dead. The Philips 252B9 is one of the last ones still available new with both 70Hz support without frameskipping and an explicit 4:3 mode . It is not cheap (prices have gone up since I bought one) and requires an OSSC for the best possible results .

Dell has a long history of producing 1600x1200 (16:10) monitors with explicit aspect ratio control. I have used the U2408, U2410, and U2415 (each purchased new over the past decade or so). The U2415 is Displayport/HDMI only so it's not suitable for older computers.

The U2407 / U2408 / U2410 are reasonably common on the used market. The U2407/U2408 have somewhat lousy input lag, but the U2410 uses an IPS panel and is better.

I believe Dell's current lineup includes the U2421 and P2421. The former is Displayport/USBc/HDMI only. The P2421 has VGA, DVI-D, DisplayPort, and HDMI inputs. It still has aspect ratio control (16:10, 5:4, 4:3)

But do they support 70Hz input and, if they do, do they skip frames when displaying it ?

Supports 70hz, but skip frames. This goes for the IPS UH2410.

As 16:10 is making a comeback in laptops, I expect it will eventually regain some traction in the desktop LCD segment as well. And maybe 3:2 as well.

1600x1200 is 4:3 its knows as uxga it scales with svga.

16:10 is WUXGA or wide uxga which 1920x1200. can be best be described as either HD with extra pixels above and below bars on top and bottom or SVGA with Bars to the right and left.

dr_st wrote on 2021-06-12, 18:17:

As 16:10 is making a comeback in laptops, I expect it will eventually regain some traction in the desktop LCD segment as well. And maybe 3:2 as well.

That would be nice. I too prefer the 16:10 ratio, even outside of retro use.

darry wrote on 2021-06-12, 20:18:

dr_st wrote on 2021-06-12, 18:17:

As 16:10 is making a comeback in laptops, I expect it will eventually regain some traction in the desktop LCD segment as well. And maybe 3:2 as well.

That would be nice. I too prefer the 16:10 ratio, even outside of retro use.

Me too. 19200x1200 is the perfect resolution to watch 16:9 content (YouTube, TV shows, etc) while still having room for UI elements (play/pause, status bar, title bar, etc) without blocking the video. The 1200px vertical being an integer multiple of 600, 240, and 200 is a nice bonus.

Regarding refresh rate... my understanding was that most of these monitors 'support' non-60Hz refresh rates in that the monitor accepts the signal, doesn't throw up an error, but displays 60 refreshes per second anyway. Does the the Philips 252B9 actually display 1920x1200 @ 75 Hz without frameskip? That would be pretty cool.

bZbZbZ wrote on 2021-06-12, 21:37:

darry wrote on 2021-06-12, 20:18:

dr_st wrote on 2021-06-12, 18:17:

As 16:10 is making a comeback in laptops, I expect it will eventually regain some traction in the desktop LCD segment as well. And maybe 3:2 as well.

That would be nice. I too prefer the 16:10 ratio, even outside of retro use.

Me too. 19200x1200 is the perfect resolution to watch 16:9 content (YouTube, TV shows, etc) while still having room for UI elements (play/pause, status bar, title bar, etc) without blocking the video. The 1200px vertical being an integer multiple of 600, 240, and 200 is a nice bonus.

Regarding refresh rate... my understanding was that most of these monitors 'support' non-60Hz refresh rates in that the monitor accepts the signal, doesn't throw up an error, but displays the image at 60 Hz anyway. Does the the Philips 252B9 actually display 1920x1200 @ 75 Hz without frameskip? That would be pretty cool.

Yes, it does at least 70Hz . I tested it with vsynctester.com on a modern machine at 1920x1200@70Hz and 1600x1200@70Hz on a Windows 98 SE machine with PixperAn .

I also tested 1600x1200@75Hz on a modern machine .

I imagine 1920x1200@75Hz without frameskip would work too, but I do not remember if I tested that specifically. EDIT: Confirmed working at 1920x1200@75Hz

bZbZbZ wrote on 2021-06-12, 14:20:

Dell has a long history of producing 1600x1200 (16:10) monitors with explicit aspect ratio control. I have used the U2408, U241 […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2021-06-11, 20:14:

16:10 is almost dead. The Philips 252B9 is one of the last ones still available new with both 70Hz support without frameskipping and an explicit 4:3 mode . It is not cheap (prices have gone up since I bought one) and requires an OSSC for the best possible results .

Dell has a long history of producing 1600x1200 (16:10) monitors with explicit aspect ratio control. I have used the U2408, U2410, and U2415 (each purchased new over the past decade or so). The U2415 is Displayport/HDMI only so it's not suitable for older computers.

The U2407 / U2408 / U2410 are reasonably common on the used market. The U2407/U2408 have somewhat lousy input lag, but the U2410 uses an IPS panel and is better.

I believe Dell's current lineup includes the U2421 and P2421. The former is Displayport/USBc/HDMI only. The P2421 has VGA, DVI-D, DisplayPort, and HDMI inputs. It still has aspect ratio control (16:10, 5:4, 4:3)

Dell U2410F? The "F" in your statement was left out.

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2021-06-13, 00:10:

Dell U2410F? The "F" in your statement was left out.
Cheers,

I went down to my basement and found the original box which was delivered to my door in December 2009. It says U2410 and there is no F. There is no F on the driver CD, no F on the calibration report. I don't think I left anything out. This is the user manual. This is a period-correct review. Maybe there was an F revision later on. Cheers.

bZbZbZ wrote on 2021-06-13, 02:57:

pentiumspeed wrote on 2021-06-13, 00:10:

Dell U2410F? The "F" in your statement was left out.
Cheers,

I went down to my basement and found the original box which was delivered to my door in December 2009. It says U2410 and there is no F. There is no F on the driver CD, no F on the calibration report. I don't think I left anything out. This is the user manual. This is a period-correct review. Maybe there was an F revision later on. Cheers.

Might have indicated it was for a different market as well. It's great when folk share pics, docs and old reviews of their kit.

I have a U2410, and I think it may be marked as U2410f somewhere, bot most places just say U2410. It's not a different monitor, that's for sure. Many DELL monitors have this obscure 'f' at the end of the name.

Thanks for all the input. So the very cheap/free to get 5:4 displays are not an option for DOS machines if you care about correct aspect ratio etc. which is sad. I do have several CRTs but I wanted to use an LCD for a SVGA & Glide DOS sim/simcade steering wheel racing setup.

Regarding the Dell monitors: The model I have two examples of, the U2311H, does indeed offer 4:3 ratio, but it's always zoomed so that there are only black bars left and right instead of all around AFAIK. I still have to try a DOS PC connected to that display though, but my expectations are pretty low.
Btw I love the look of the bezel of the Dell U2311H and the U2410 has the same style. Just nice plain 90° angles 😀

villeneuve wrote on 2021-06-13, 17:51:

Btw I love the look of the bezel of the Dell U2311H and the U2410 has the same style. Just nice plain 90° angles 😀

Yep. I love design consistency. Other DELL monitors with this look are 2209WA, U2711 and U3011.

AFAIK the latter two digits in Dell display model numbers designate the year of release and the last model year with that nice design was 2011. 2012 got round edges and different buttons. More recently Dell made models with angular designs again with much slimmer bezels obviously.

The search on ebay only showed up 2410F monitors. Any differences between two?

Cheers,

Nope. It's the same monitor.