I also have a CSX917B case - mine houses my Super 7 system. https://aiyamicro.com/legacy-products/cases_computer.htm

Repo Man11 wrote on 2021-06-05, 21:54:

I also have a CSX917B case - mine houses my Super 7 system. https://aiyamicro.com/legacy-products/cases_computer.htm

I got mine second hand, but I like it a lot.

Plenty of room, good airflow, nice rounded edges inside and all that while still keeping that late '90s / early 2000s aesthetic. It's also nice that the back of the case still has the cutouts for serial and parallel port brackets.

And here are some benchmarks. Basically, I get Pentium at full speed, a 486DX2-66 at the next speed level (CCD), a 486DX-33 after that (L1D) and lastly a 386DX-25 (L1D+L2D). I could probably fine tune this even further by applying slower memory timings in the BIOS, downclocking the CPU to 133 MHz and using some of the other test registers. But truthfully, the current slowdown range covers my needs quite nicely. Big thanks to Gerwin for developing the excellent SetMul utility which makes all of this possible!

Now for the Voodoo1 benchmarks under Windows 95:

All game benchmarks were carried out using 16-bit color depth. Game versions used:

• Quake1 v1.08 (software rendering)
• GLQuake1 v0.97 (with 3DFX miniGL v1.49)
• Quake2 v3.20 (with 3DFX miniGL v1.49)
• Unreal v2.25 (Glide renderer)

OS and drivers used

• Windows 95 OSR2.1 (no unofficial service packs or third-party patches)
• DirectX 7.0a
• Intel chipset drivers from this Soyo CD
• 3DFX Voodoo1 v3.01.00 reference driver

Well thought out build, I always thought 200mmx was the best all rounder dos pc even though I don't have a socket 7 PC in my collection.
I doubt upgrading a 166 to a 200 +changes which games are playable or not but I wouldn't be able to control myself as 200 just sounds soo much more faster .

Not much to add. Well maybe a network card but that's partly because I think networking old rigs is cool.

I'm always surprised ram disks aren't featured more. Ram is cheap and having a fast small dumping ground is useful and good way to eat up ram for those annoying games.
TV is my standout S3D game but I do enjoy "downgrading" myself and playing the S3D versions of the other racing games just for something different.

chinny22 wrote on 2021-06-07, 15:10:

Well thought out build, I always thought 200mmx was the best all rounder dos pc even though I don't have a socket 7 PC in my collection.

Thanks! All rounder is really the best way to describe this rig, as it can indeed play a little bit of everything. 😀

I doubt upgrading a 166 to a 200 +changes which games are playable or not but I wouldn't be able to control myself as 200 just sounds soo much more faster .

Heh, I understand that completely. If I could source a 200 MHz MMX locally, I might upgrade it. Unfortunately, everything from the Socket 7 era seems exceptionally rare where I live, and importing from abroad incurs huge fees. But I'll keep my eyes open.

Not much to add. Well maybe a network card but that's partly because I think networking old rigs is cool.

I may yet do that. For now, my case cover isn't screwed down, so I can simply slide it open and take out the CF card to copy files over. But at some point, that might change, and I always did want to try networking in DOS. Back in the day, all I had was a 14.4k dial-up modem which connected to some local BBS server in my city.

I'm always surprised ram disks aren't featured more. Ram is cheap and having a fast small dumping ground is useful and good way to eat up ram for those annoying games.

They are really great. Sometimes I copy over an entire game to the ramdisk just to see how much faster it loads. Well, with a CF card there's not a lot of difference, but with a period-correct HDD, there would be.

TV is my standout S3D game but I do enjoy "downgrading" myself and playing the S3D versions of the other racing games just for something different.

I have very fond memories of Terminal Velocity as it was one of the earliest games that I played on my very first PC. I never experienced its S3D mode until now, as I didn't have a Virge back then, just an S3 Trio.

BTW, I think Virge cards get way too much flak from people. Sure, they are bad at Windows 3D gaming, but for DOS titles they do a decent job, especially if overclocked. On this Pentium MMX 166, I get very similar frame rates when running Tomb Raider in software mode at 640x480 and in S3D mode at the same resolution. The difference being, I have 16-bit colors, bilinear filtering and perspective correction with S3D. I might post some comparison screenshots later.

Here are some software rendering vs. S3D comparisons for Tomb Raider. I had to take the photos using my phone as the game doesn't provide any way to create screenshots.

With software rendering, you can notice color banding on the snow as the shadow fades into the light. In S3D mode, that transition is completely smooth.

Again, some color banding can be observed on Lara's arm and face in sofware rendering. In S3D mode the shadows are smooth and the wall textures look nicer as well.

Water is completely transparent in software rendering. In S3D mode it has a blue tinge and some additional lighting effects.

As noted before, S3D mode delivers around 15 FPS at 640x480 with an overclocked VirgeDX. On this system, software rendering runs slower than that when using the same resolution. Notably, S3D also brings 16-bit colors, perspective correction and bilinear filtering to the table while reaching a slightly higher frame rate. In conclusion, the Virge is worth using on a slow system such as this, unless you happen to have a Voodoo card.

I went from a 2D only Dx2/66 to a P2 400 with a 16MB TNT in '98 so missed out on the "3D wars" pretty much. It's why I like playing with them all now.
Marketing back in the day didn't help any of these short lived proprietary API cards pushing them as full blown 3D accelerators while not improving over software mode by much.
If they went down the path of 2D card with exclusive features maybe peoples expectations wouldn't have been so high?

Virge reputation seems to have improved over the years thanks to its great 2D compatibility and no one is trying to use it as a D3D card anymore.
But just Roland is #1 in midi yet we like to play around and compare with other devices.
Think same can be said for these early 3D APi's

chinny22 wrote on 2021-06-09, 10:19:

But just Roland is #1 in midi yet we like to play around and compare with other devices.
Think same can be said for these early 3D APi's

Heh, I can attest to that. I do also have a Voodoo3, and have played a bit of Tomb Raider in Glide mode as well. The frame rate is much better of course, but the gamma looks washed out, probably because it was designed for the Voodoo1.

It's definitively fun playing around with early 3D renderers, despite suboptimal performance. For reference, on my Tomb Raider Gold disc, there are patches for Voodoo1, Voodoo Rush (works on V2 and V3 too), S3 Virge, Matrox Mystique, Ati 3D Rage, PowerVR and Rendition Verite cards.

Unexpectedly, I stumbled upon a Soyo SY-5BT motherboard on my local classifieds. It's based on the Intel 430TX chipset and has an ATX power connector.

I think I will rebuild the system using this motherboard and keep the M571 for future use in a K6-2 build. Updates to follow.

And it's done! The Soyo 5BT motherboard is in place and an LC Power PSU is now used instead of AOpen, mainly because it's much quieter. I have also added two sound cards to replicate the SB16 and WSS functionality of the previous build. Interestingly, the Pentium MMX 166 runs slightly better on the Soyo motherboard. Performance is about 5-10% higher compared to the M571 in every test except Doom, which is somehow a bit slower.

Note: originally, I had built this system around a PC Chips M571 motherboard and its integrated CMI8330 sound card, but have since decided to re-purpose that for a K6-2 rig. Reviews of the M571 and the CMI8330 can be found below.

I use this chip as a discrete sound card in my Slot 1 system alongside a Tereatec DMX Xfire 1024 and it is just fantastic.

appiah4 wrote on 2021-06-14, 08:31:

I use this chip as a discrete sound card in my Slot 1 system alongside a Tereatec DMX Xfire 1024 and it is just fantastic.

Assuming you're talking about the CMI8330, it does seem to be quite a remarkable chip. As evidenced by the fact that I now use two separate sound cards to replicate its functionality. 😁

Will definitively be using it in the upcoming K6-2 build. I plan on testing its HRTF capabilities in a few more games like Unreal Tournament and System Shock 2, if I manage to get a decent PCI graphics card to run them on that rig.

BTW, the manual that came on the M571 driver CD suggests that the CMI8330 supports A3D. I'm attaching it below, as it appears to contain more information than the manuals for the standalone cards that I've seen floating around.

Noticed that there's an updated Windows 3.11 VirgeDX driver here on Vogons. This one works perfectly, allowing 800x600 with 24-bit colors. Not sure if there are any Win 3.11 programs that can actually use that color depth, but it's nice that it's available. Obligatory screenshot:

The OPTi 82C930 also has fully Win 3.11 compatible drivers. The installer automatically set up MIDI Mapper for both FM synth and MPU-401 so everything works flawlessly.

Thanks for your thoughts on the c-media card, I'd be very interested to get my hands on one sometime, as I've hadn't had any luck with finding an ALS100 that works in my machine.

Oetker wrote on 2021-06-15, 19:26:

Thanks for your thoughts on the c-media card, I'd be very interested to get my hands on one sometime, as I've hadn't had any luck with finding an ALS100 that works in my machine.

What issues did you encounter with the ALS100? I have one in a different build, and aside from high self-noise, it worked fine in all the games that I've tested it with.

The CMI8330 is a great alternative though. I particularly like how clean its FM synth sounds.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-16, 03:35:

Oetker wrote on 2021-06-15, 19:26:

Thanks for your thoughts on the c-media card, I'd be very interested to get my hands on one sometime, as I've hadn't had any luck with finding an ALS100 that works in my machine.

What issues did you encounter with the ALS100? I have one in a different build, and aside from high self-noise, it worked fine in all the games that I've tested it with.

The CMI8330 is a great alternative though. I particularly like how clean its FM synth sounds.

In my machine all three cards I've tried either aren't detected or hang when playing sounds. Or work for a few seconds from one channel and then hang.

Oetker wrote on 2021-06-16, 04:58:

In my machine all three cards I've tried either aren't detected or hang when playing sounds. Or work for a few seconds from one channel and then hang.

Strange. I have tried my ALS100 in a couple of different systems (first three in my signature) while doing some tests and it has always worked fine for me.

For reference, I'm using these drivers. My card model is a "PRO16PNP" and it looks like this:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-16, 05:28:

Strange. I have tried my ALS100 in a couple of different systems (first three in my signature) while doing some tests and it has […]
Show full quote

Oetker wrote on 2021-06-16, 04:58:

In my machine all three cards I've tried either aren't detected or hang when playing sounds. Or work for a few seconds from one channel and then hang.

Strange. I have tried my ALS100 in a couple of different systems (first three in my signature) while doing some tests and it has always worked fine for me.

For reference, I'm using these drivers. My card model is a "PRO16PNP" and it looks like this:

ALS100.jpg

Yeah I'm using it in a 440BX motherboard so that should be pretty compatible, but unfortunately I only have the one machine to test with. I have that same PRO16PNP card, a MA5ASOUND (seems to be the other common variant) and an unlabeled one. The unlabeled one is really cheap, doesn't even have plated ISA connector fingers, but that one is actually the one that sometimes plays sound for a bit.

Oetker wrote on 2021-06-16, 06:59:

Yeah I'm using it in a 440BX motherboard so that should be pretty compatible, but unfortunately I only have the one machine to test with.

Yup, the 440BX chipset is as stable and compatible as they get. The only thing that comes to mind is to check if something else is sharing the resources used by the ALS100. From my experience, USB 2.0 cards are notorious in that regard, as they tend to take up 3 separate IRQs. But it could also be something random like the BIOS assigning IRQ 5 to the graphics card etc.

If you have Win98SE installed on that rig, it might be worth going to Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System Information > Hardware Resources and checking the IRQ, DMA and I/O sections there for any conflicts. By default, my ALS100 uses A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 and also IRQ 2/9 for the MPU-401 interface. All of these can be changed in the config utility of course.