VOGONS


Reply 19220 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
hyoenmadan wrote on 2021-06-16, 19:24:
Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-15, 17:55:

Like getting functional usb support on NT4. Something MickySoft insisted was impossible...

Still is "impossible" to get in NT4 a full working WDM stack. What you get is some monolitic drivers made by Softex, a filial of Phoenix Technologies, which manage the USB bus in a private way, so only the drivers programmed for their internal api work with the stack. You can't use WDM usb drivers with it, nor program enhanced support for it. Even with USBSUPP package, you could in Win95 program limited extra support for some of your hardware, as long as you wanted to do extra VxD helpers for certain stuff which came later built on Win98. You couldn't do that with Softex stack.

Sure, MS could have backported part of the NT5 kernel to NT4 to get some limited WDM like in Win95, but when that support was in production state, NT4 was already on SP5 and they still had to support Alpha platform quirks, so they just decided to no waste time backporting features to an OS in already extended support stage. Specially when such still-in-test stuff wasn't important in enterprise environments back then.

I wondered how long someone would do a search on that and supply a responce. A bit slower than I expected but that is. It's a bit more complicated than that ol bean. I easily managed to get usb drive formated to fat16 or ntfs4. If you put the NT4 usb sticl with ntfs4 into a win2000 or XP box there would convert then to ntfs 5 (without losing your data) unless NT4 had SP6 applied and could read ntfs5 formatted drive. That was on a ye olde Dell system back in the early 200os. It certainly was the outfit you. Was it the first hit on a google search? IIRC it was some German outfit. Clever folks those Germans.

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2021-06-17, 02:28. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19221 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
DosFreak wrote on 2021-06-17, 00:05:
Microsoft never stated that USB on NT4 was impossible they just chose not to support it. https://web.archive.org/web/2004120419 […]
Show full quote

Microsoft never stated that USB on NT4 was impossible they just chose not to support it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20041204194823/ht … .com/?id=196661

https://web.archive.org/web/20091026192433/ht … com/mypublic99/
https://nt4ref.zcm.com.au/usb.htm
http://alter.org.ua/en/docs/win/nt4_usb/

Supposedly some stacks support WDM drivers.

Thanks for providing those links man. They might be useful for someone toying with NT4.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19222 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Some other fun stuff for older windows version on new mobos= http://alter.org.ua/soft/win/uni_ata/

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19223 of 27168, by hyoenmadan

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-17, 00:17:

It's a bit more complicated than that ol bean. I easily managed to get usb drive formated to fat16 or ntfs4. If you put the NT4 usb sticl with ntfs4 into a win2000 or XP box there would convert then to ntfs 5 (without losing your data) unless NT4 had SP6 applied and could read ntfs5 formatted drive.

USB is a bit wider than just flash drives you know...

Reply 19224 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
hyoenmadan wrote on 2021-06-17, 03:04:
Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-17, 00:17:

It's a bit more complicated than that ol bean. I easily managed to get usb drive formated to fat16 or ntfs4. If you put the NT4 usb sticl with ntfs4 into a win2000 or XP box there would convert then to ntfs 5 (without losing your data) unless NT4 had SP6 applied and could read ntfs5 formatted drive.

USB is a bit wider than just flash drives you know...

Keee? I know. The point is? Other usb devices weren't that widely used back then either. Systems still had optical drives, 3.25" floppy drives etc on theme back in the olden days. Yeah usb printers were used but the systems still had lpt ports as well as real serial ports.

Ironicly my first usb device other than usb sticks was a usb 3.25"floppy disk drive. 😉

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19225 of 27168, by PD2JK

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Testing some ECC modules. Not that the nForce northbridge will do anything with the ECC part, but it works. Four 2GB DDR2-800 modules from the Polish manufacturer Goodram (Micron chips). Don't buy their SSD's, they're not so 'good'. 😉

You can say that this machine is a bit of a troll-PC;
-ECC which is not being utilized.
-AMD Radeon HD 2900 XT; lots of heat while not being the best performer of its time. The first DirectX 10 card to market? But little DX10 games available at launch if I remember correctly.
-Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550, not officially supported, but it works. I also have a QX6850 laying around. I'm going to do some benchmarks in the near future, let's see if a bit more cache matters (Q9550) or the 166MHz higher clock speed (QX6850).
-Windows Vista x64, what can I say...
-Two 74GB Raptors RAID0 + 1TB WD Blue.

LblqOUP1pIvgPKM1gOSzsY6H.jpg

i386 16 ⇒ i486 DX4 100 ⇒ Pentium MMX 200 ⇒ Athlon Orion 700 | TB 1000 ⇒ AthlonXP 1700+ ⇒ Opteron 165 ⇒ Dual Opteron 856

Reply 19226 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Whilst preparing a black front facia for the 3.25" floppy drive I fitting in my Shuttle Xpc the pin that holds the pin on for the flip up panel got damaged.

Dragged out my nz$30 soldering iron along with a left over piece of plastic tyrap and sorted it out. It's a lot betterer know. Probably stronger now than it was originally.

Attachments

  • 20210617_180826.jpg
    Filename
    20210617_180826.jpg
    File size
    686.47 KiB
    Views
    1135 views
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2021-06-17, 16:49. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19227 of 27168, by chrismeyer6

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
PD2JK wrote on 2021-06-17, 07:37:
Testing some ECC modules. Not that the nForce northbridge will do anything with the ECC part, but it works. Four 2GB DDR2-800 mo […]
Show full quote

Testing some ECC modules. Not that the nForce northbridge will do anything with the ECC part, but it works. Four 2GB DDR2-800 modules from the Polish manufacturer Goodram (Micron chips). Don't buy their SSD's, they're not so 'good'. 😉

You can say that this machine is a bit of a troll-PC;
-ECC which is not being utilized.
-AMD Radeon HD 2900 XT; lots of heat while not being the best performer of its time. The first DirectX 10 card to market? But little DX10 games available at launch if I remember correctly.
-Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550, not officially supported, but it works. I also have a QX6850 laying around. I'm going to do some benchmarks in the near future, let's see if a bit more cache matters (Q9550) or the 166MHz higher clock speed (QX6850).
-Windows Vista x64, what can I say...
-Two 74GB Raptors RAID0 + 1TB WD Blue.

LblqOUP1pIvgPKM1gOSzsY6H.jpg

That's a fun setup. Is it a 680i based system?

Reply 19228 of 27168, by PD2JK

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
chrismeyer6 wrote on 2021-06-17, 11:00:

That's a fun setup. Is it a 680i based system?

Yes, I believe it has the Nvidia nForce 680i SLI chipset; Crush55 + MCP55.

i386 16 ⇒ i486 DX4 100 ⇒ Pentium MMX 200 ⇒ Athlon Orion 700 | TB 1000 ⇒ AthlonXP 1700+ ⇒ Opteron 165 ⇒ Dual Opteron 856

Reply 19230 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Got the Shuttle Xpc sorted. About a minute and a half to boot to the desk which is Cinnamon on Linux Mint Debian Edition. If you look at the system info shot below you'll see how much resources this little beauty has. So if someone says Xwindows is slow or there is no modern operating system for older 32-bit x86 hardware that is regularly updated tell them to go pound sand 😉

I'll create a dedicated thread some time to explain the small issue I had a some time.

Peace out.

Attachments

  • 20210618_110857.jpg
    Filename
    20210618_110857.jpg
    File size
    667.86 KiB
    Views
    1043 views
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • 20210618_110911.jpg
    Filename
    20210618_110911.jpg
    File size
    624.88 KiB
    Views
    1043 views
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19231 of 27168, by creepingnet

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Uploaded some videos to my YouTube Channel including one more for the Dragon Warrior Let's Play that got the ending mangled by Windows Update running in the background.....god I wish my NW06 Video Capture device worked with Linux or Macintosh, it'd make life so much easier.

~The Creeping Network~
My Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/creepingnet
Creepingnet's World - https://creepingnet.neocities.org/
The Creeping Network Repo - https://www.geocities.ws/creepingnet2019/

Reply 19232 of 27168, by canthearu

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:15:

So if someone says Xwindows is slow or there is no modern operating system for older 32-bit x86 hardware that is regularly updated tell them to go pound sand 😉

I wouldn't call Xwindows modern though ... more like a fossil that has been kept animated because they haven't worked out a replacement that they can agree on yet.

UNIX is a bit like that overall. Never replace any of the shit parts of it because the 1000 different conflicting voices can't align well enough to develop a more modern replacement. Same thing happened with init system in linux until the largest developer (redhat) just went nope and created a new standard anyway (systemd)

Edit: I also have a big box full of motherboards I can use before I would force myself to use a P4 with 1 Gig of ram for my modern activities. I remember having a work computer that slow and it sucked complete balls, even running XP.

Reply 19233 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I'm trying to decide what APG card to shove in the Shuttle Xpc:

Attachments

  • 20210618_180653.jpg
    Filename
    20210618_180653.jpg
    File size
    710.94 KiB
    Views
    988 views
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19234 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
canthearu wrote on 2021-06-18, 05:39:
I wouldn't call Xwindows modern though ... more like a fossil that has been kept animated because they haven't worked out a repl […]
Show full quote
Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:15:

So if someone says Xwindows is slow or there is no modern operating system for older 32-bit x86 hardware that is regularly updated tell them to go pound sand 😉

I wouldn't call Xwindows modern though ... more like a fossil that has been kept animated because they haven't worked out a replacement that they can agree on yet.

UNIX is a bit like that overall. Never replace any of the shit parts of it because the 1000 different conflicting voices can't align well enough to develop a more modern replacement. Same thing happened with init system in linux until the largest developer (redhat) just went nope and created a new standard anyway (systemd)

Edit: I also have a big box full of motherboards I can use before I would force myself to use a P4 with 1 Gig of ram for my modern activities. I remember having a work computer that slow and it sucked complete balls, even running XP.

Who cares if Xwindows is not "modern". It works for me just fine. Also it has a lot more functionality than any Windows gui.

There are ini distros out there like Duvian. It's init based Dedian ... https://www.devuan.org/

Haven't use RedHat for about 15years.

As long as the OS runs on the system I'm fine with it.

I don't care at all what other systems you have.

Peace out 🤣

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2021-06-18, 06:17. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19235 of 27168, by xcomcmdr

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The Xorg devs themselves have made very clear that it's slow, vastly inefficent, insecure, and unfixable. Several times, and at conferences, no less !
and it was 10 years ago.

Wayland is slowly, very slowly getting there, but old Linux users set in their way shit on it already. Just like with systemd, a lot of temper tantrums over nothing.

Last edited by xcomcmdr on 2021-06-18, 19:33. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 19236 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I'm sorry it is slow for YOU. Well no I'm not......

It works just fine and dandy on MY systems.

And that is ALL that matters.

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2021-06-18, 07:14. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19237 of 27168, by xcomcmdr

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

It's slow compared to a sound design. With today's computers you can't tell the difference. Although a sound design would be easier on batteries, that's not the main problem.

The main problem is the inneficent, insecure, and totally crazy architecture the Xorg devs are left with:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articl … situation&num=1

But hey, feel free to go tribal about it, I guess.

Reply 19238 of 27168, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Go beat your drum somewhere else.

I've been reading this crap for around 15 years.

You obviously can not read my posts.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉