Yes, there are forums where newbies feel unwelcome. There are forums that are shit shows in general, whether you are a newbie or not. I've been to some of these over the 2+ decades that I've been using forums. There is no need to name them.

I agree that VOGONS is one of the best ones I know. I am active on a couple of others which are also great. I think in the end, it mostly depends on how the administration/moderation team feels a forum should be run. I have been part of said team on a couple of forums myself.

Perhaps a paraphrase of Tolstoy's postulate from Anna Karenina is fitting:

"All good forums are alike; each bad forum is bad in its own way." 😀

It might be that electric and mechanical people need certain acquired knowledge to handle things or they are so similar as persons.
+ Oh and those camera/photo/film forums are too kind of elitist forums. A lot can go wrong in those.

- In some forums there are members that make their account look much older with aged photos and forum ranking additions like "Member: Seasoned Veteran"or similar and in the end there is a 8-20 y.o kid behind it.

- I have no perfect English and I get burned a lot because of it. USA and English forums are awful because of it. They correct every language mistake and if they spot you are a foreigner they treat you bad.
I live in Europe Finland and yes we don't natively speak English here.

How do USA people see us Europeans in generally ?

I feel I'm too old for internet I'm 35 y.o and feel internet was more fun in 1998-2006 when fewer users were online. (with 56k modem.)
Now everybody can get online.

Welcome to the party. There are a bunch of "old-timers here, including me... relatively speaking anyway. I'm a few years older than you.

There are people from all over the world here. Sometimes stuff can be lost in translation but we try to do our best as far as trying to help everybody that actually wants help.

yes a lot of forums are like that, interesting that you've noticed same usernames with different 'personas' too and any forum that shows email is bad!

given that you are entering some details there are certain standards you'd hope for

most of such forums tend to die out for various reasons (i did a post on that a few months back: the signs that a forum is dying )

There is something about the 'culture' of technical forums where some people will try and outdo each other for an imaged 'top dog' position, it's visible in groups of friends too - vying for who can know the most obscure techy arcana - it can be fun and interesting and it can turn sour and competitive (competing for what though, the stakes are so low!)

this forum has occasional hints of all kinds of things, but somehow by virtue of the majority and the moderators it never spills into something that spoils the place

also another thing i like about vogons - it's completely fine to ask the same question multiple times - technical or general, at different times different people ask and answer and different things come out, so its good and ongoing

user33331 wrote on 2021-07-14, 06:04:

It might be that electric and mechanical people need certain acquired knowledge to handle things or they are so similar as persons.

Might also be that the subject matter doesn't attract the most socially skilled people. That said, my eldest child is an art student and they tell me the exact same stories from their online hangouts. In-groups and nasty behaviour happens everywhere.

- I have no perfect English and I get burned a lot because of it. USA and English forums are awful because of it. They correct every language mistake and if they spot you are a foreigner they treat you bad.
I live in Europe Finland and yes we don't natively speak English here.

The irony is that that kind of person usually speaks and writes terrible English themselves, but don't see the appalling slang and dialect they use - yet are amazingly critical of somebody (like you) whose idiom is sometimes a bit... foreign, but actually technically writes perfectly good and understandable English.

Bottom line: people behaving like that say a lot more about themselves and nothing about you. I believe an apt Finnish term for them would be "runkkarit" 😉

How do USA people see us Europeans in generally ?

Europe? That's someplace in upstate New York right? 😜

I feel I'm too old for internet I'm 35 y.o and feel internet was more fun in 1998-2006 when fewer users were online. (with 56k modem.)
Now everybody can get online.

Tbh, chances are you were more fun 1998-2006 😉

Some people have always been toxic, even in the pre-internet days; when you're young you are enthousiastic and want to conform. Now we're grumpy old buggers who don't have time for that sort of stuff, but we're nostalgic for the 'good old days'. Which is probably common factor of everyone here.

gerry wrote on 2021-07-14, 08:31:

it's completely fine to ask the same question multiple times - technical or general, at different times different people ask and answer and different things come out, so its good and ongoing

Some linux forums are terrible for that, you often need a less than 2 year old take/experience on a problem, because everything gets broken every couple of years, and mods locking things with "That's been solved, use the search" is not helpful when the last thread they let continue about it was 17 years old and a couple of major kernel versions ago. Guess what Einstein, it doesn't work like that now.

Then there's some really "fun" places where mods are sticklers for on topic posting, but then there's 20 or 30 mods where one doesn't know what the other is doing, and you post in most relevant thread about something and get told "That's drifting off the topic, start a new thread" so you start a new thread and it gets locked in seconds by another mod who says there are threads about this already, post in one of those.

Welcoming new users is one of things that works well on vogons, imo.

I recently joined a Facebook group for comics trying to give away some comics I had laying around. It was not a pleasant experience. All my posts got removed by mods after 10-15 minutes. After the second post I sent a PM and asked why and I was just directed to the rules page (no explanation on what rule I had broken and yes, I had read them several times). Third attempt was again removed, this time I got an explanation that it was against the rules to have give-aways where there were only local pickup. Who in their right mind would give away many kilos of comics for free and then also be expected to ship it when they live in the capital (also the group had very strict packaging/shipping rules making it a PIA). The same mod then offered in PM to come pick it up to "help me out". Clearly abusing his powers. I said no and left the group, the comics are still in my shed 😜

Considering this forum is supposed to be about old games on new systems yet has become one of the most popular places for people playing with old hardware shows the Mod's are pretty relaxed.

I think as retro computing as a whole isn't that popular as a hobby we are somewhat the outsiders so can't afford to be too elitist. I have noticed this increasing a bit as the hobby is becoming more popular but its not like gaming forums where you can brag about having a PC with Ryzen CPU's with whatever the newest GPU is that cost more then my car and gets amazing benchmark numbers.
I can try and brag about say my Dual P3 with V2 Sli, SCSI, etc but fact is its just a bunch of cool and expensive parts that cheap boring P4 will outperform in every aspect (even heat!)
Even in this small little hobby the ultimate goal varies a lot from person to person.

I also feel vogons aimed more at the earlier stages and general aspects of this hobby so you have to expect newbies over the real hardcore people.
We don't really get into the real hardcore workings of software or hardware much here other specialist forums exist for that. (I'm talking about the hardware side here, not sure about the emulation side) I wouldn't be surprised people wanting to be elitist's end up leaving here to go and try and "impress everyone with their superior knowledge"

When I first signed up I'd forgotten so much so was starting from scratch again, as time went on I either learnt or remembered things to the point I think I'm pretty knowledgeable and hold my own in a forum more dedicated or focused on the finer details of specific hardware that interest me but for me Vogons is just the right balance between knowledge and simplicity for a part time hobby that I don't invest a lot of time in.

As for Europeans or non native English speakers. ignore anyone that says anything.
I'd say majority of English speakers are happy to "decode" bad English and get out of having to learn a 2nd language.

Vogons is the only forum I visit these days (except for our own Exult forum that has dramatically reduced visitations and is a help forum only anyway) mainly because of the mentioned problems. I do feel that Vogons could be better in welcoming new members or rather in treating new members but we are doing okayish. Sometimes we don't react appropriately when "newbies" show up with less experience in DOSBox or other things, but I think we *try* but don't always succeed.

The MacRumours forum jumps down your throat if you post something that is even only vaguely answered elsewhere (or especially first post in the thread). I get it when people ask the same thing over and over but when a thread is 600 posts long it's hard to find what you need, especially if you're not quite sure what you need.

This place seems pretty friendly to me! The old Matrox Users Resource Centre (MURC) was great back in its heyday too.

I find specialist Facebook groups pretty friendly (two recently I've been in are IBM PS/2 and Psion) so far anyway!

Cheers,
Steve

The trend I noticed these past two years is people poo-pooing forums claiming facebook etc is the place to go.
I started seeing some o the trends mentioned above particularly from newbies and after answering the same question 16 times I went on a rant on facebook.
When I noticed that it all died down after 24 hours I went on a 72 hour ranting spree. I did not cross any lines such as racial or stating someone was dumb etc. i simple posted over and over again that what they had asked had been asked before and that they should do a modicum of research before posting... (the topic was slot cars aka Scalextric aka Carrera) and I got ROASTED fore being Biatsch etc etc etc ... so I laid low for 72 hours and guess what?
Nobody except for one single guy in New Zealand remembered me.
It was as if nothing had happened.

At least here on forums you leave a footprint and people can gather more or less what is going on in particular if a thread drifts a little.

All this social media stuff is such a flash in the pan and I seriously feel it is dumbing down humanity be forcing us to only look at that short moment in time...

I will say, the only reason I finally bit the bullet and began tinkering with some retro hardware I had a longing for was from visiting here so long. And it's generally been a good experience.

It can be remarkable though. You are having an issue, and you try your best to do your due diligence, searching the forum for other posts about it. Nothing comes up so you make your own post, and someone immediately posts a link to another thread that somehow didn't come up in your search with the exact solution 😜 I have no idea why that keeps happening, but at least everyone so far has been cool about it. Gives us something to talk about at least. It's a forum, not a wiki.

The broader internet is getting... weird. There is this bizarre sense everywhere you go that you are on notice. Literally everything is somehow political. Sometimes to a baffling degree. Like people making enormous leaps about your political inclinations based purely on whatever pop culture you do or don't like. And then the mods begin scrutinizing you extra close and making your life miserable. I don't understand how anyone can enjoy communities that stifling.

I donno, maybe the same was true in certain circles back when the hardware and software we spend so much time on was contemporary. It's just those fights are so long dead and in the past, only the artifacts are left, and the weird zeitgeist of political coloring has faded. Somehow I doubt it though. I think things are just legitimately worse now.

vetz wrote on 2021-07-14, 11:08:

Welcoming new users is one of things that works well on vogons, imo.

I recently joined a Facebook group for comics trying to give away some comics I had laying around. It was not a pleasant experience. All my posts got removed by mods after 10-15 minutes. After the second post I sent a PM and asked why and I was just directed to the rules page (no explanation on what rule I had broken and yes, I had read them several times). Third attempt was again removed, this time I got an explanation that it was against the rules to have give-aways where there were only local pickup. Who in their right mind would give away many kilos of comics for free and then also be expected to ship it when they live in the capital (also the group had very strict packaging/shipping rules making it a PIA). The same mod then offered in PM to come pick it up to "help me out". Clearly abusing his powers. I said no and left the group, the comics are still in my shed 😜

Something similar happened to me recently on Discord -- I would post replies or comments to people and the posts would get removed every once in a while and I would get warnings, even being banned from certain channels within the server. I kept asking what I was violating because I couldn't see any rules being broken. It turned out it was certain words I was using that were considered "vulgar" in a different region of the world. I had no idea because they're just every day American English words even used by my 4 year old (i.e. "crap", using someone's proper first name "Dick", "flaps" when describing the spring hinged 5.25" bay covers on a computer I have, and "pissed" when describing FedEx not delivering a 2-day package in roughly a month's time). I asked if there was a list that I could see so I could avoid using whatever words their bot was referencing so I could stop getting warnings and my posts removed. I was told no, it is common sense. I asked for a list again because obviously it wasn't common sense for someone on the other side of the world. All the meanwhile, other members were using English swear words (a-word, s-word, etc) left and right in the channels and no warnings/bans would occur. I was told everyone else had no problem following the rules and that I was the problem. I ended up just leaving the server. (RMC on Discord)

Carrera wrote on 2021-07-14, 12:29:

All this social media stuff is such a flash in the pan and I seriously feel it is dumbing down humanity be forcing us to only look at that short moment in time...

Yes Facebook is good for asking something and getting a quick answer. You'll never be able to go back and find that piece if information again though which is why I love "real" forums like this - absolute treasure trove of information.

I love Vogons and I visit it daily and honestly because of the issues with other forums this is the only one I visit anymore. It was tiring to see the same old fights and rants over and over while nothing got accomplished. This forum has got to have the best community feel about it. Sure there and arguments and stupid spats but that's dealing with humans but in the end this is a safe And extremely fun place to be.

I can easily say Vogons is the only forum I've ever visited consistently, near daily for the last several years as a lurker. Every question I've had is usually answered already so I never bothered to make an account until... now.

I visit VOGONS primarily, MSFN a close second and macOS9lives third.

I used to post to a LOT of forums in my 20's in the 2000's. Mostly guitar though because the x86 retro-PC thing had not quite taken off yet. I felt somewhat alone in this genre at the time because most vintage computer forums were focusing on CP/M, Commodore, TRS-80, and other older platforms with a heavier gaming focus, and I had not hohned my chops at electronics enough yet.

These days I'm usually here, sometimes VCFED, with a periodic cameo at Offsetguitars/Shortscale/Jag-Stang where I used to hang my hat, and occasionally VideoKarma and DIYStompbox for other electronic stuff like TV's and building pedals, and Explorerforum when I am doing car projects. All but here have slowed down dramatically. I remember the days of <2009 when those places were BUSTING at the seams with activity. Now sometimes a new post/thread could take 2-3 days before anyone replies. I've found BBS message boards to be faster in some cases these days, whodathunkit? Yeah, I'm a "Quirky Guy(TM)" with too many skills and "hobbies".

I hate social media with a passion. Facebook I find most groups to be full of fluff and not a lot of content outside of showing off, and finding archived/older posts on something becomes harder and harder compared to say....Vogons where I can look up someone's posting from 2008 on xx video card or whatever, and pull it up instantly using search. The only ones I like to use are Bandlab and Instagram and that's more for me to show off my music or projects and see what others may think of my handiwork, because the politics and other stuff can be "narrowed out" by the intense on-the-dot focus of my post(s).

wiretap wrote on 2021-07-14, 12:45:

Something similar happened to me recently on Discord -- I would post replies or comments to people and the posts would get removed every once in a while and I would get warnings, even being banned from certain channels within the server. I kept asking what I was violating because I couldn't see any rules being broken. It turned out it was certain words I was using that were considered "vulgar" in a different region of the world. I had no idea because they're just every day American English words even used by my 4 year old (i.e. "crap", using someone's proper first name "Dick", "flaps" when describing the spring hinged 5.25" bay covers on a computer I have, and "pissed" when describing FedEx not delivering a 2-day package in roughly a month's time). I asked if there was a list that I could see so I could avoid using whatever words their bot was referencing so I could stop getting warnings and my posts removed. I was told no, it is common sense. I asked for a list again because obviously it wasn't common sense for someone on the other side of the world. All the meanwhile, other members were using English swear words (a-word, s-word, etc) left and right in the channels and no warnings/bans would occur. I was told everyone else had no problem following the rules and that I was the problem. I ended up just leaving the server. (RMC on Discord)

I was working with something obscure probably a decade back, forget exactly what it was even right now. Anyway found this forum about it, and it was run by some kind of nutjob, after I dropped my first frick, I got a tirade about substitute F words, and I came to realise that applied to d words, dang, darn etc, j words, jeeze, jove, etc, s words, you couldn't even call something shady without him having a fit about it being a sub for shitty, anyway I'd managed to ring up a couple of 24 hour bans just trying to speak somewhat normally, then the final thing was I said I fudged something, which is a usage entirely separate from F word substitutes and I got banned... so I mailed back calling dude a depraved pervert who saw filth and depravity in the most innocent things, and got IP blocked too 🤣