Eep386 wrote on 2021-06-12, 16:09:

The easy way to get the total cache is to watch the boot-up sequence. At some point it should say something like '256K CACHE ENA […]
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The easy way to get the total cache is to watch the boot-up sequence. At some point it should say something like '256K CACHE ENABLED'. If it's an Award BIOS, then the cache will be listed on the final sign-on screen which shows the 'specifications' of the system.

For example, for 256K cache, both JS1 and JS2 should be set to 2-3.
If this is the case, just try putting the SRAM chip into that empty socket, aligned exactly the same way the other chips are (eg. if the text reads from left to right on the other chips, the chip you're adding should be aligned in the same manner).

If you've already installed the SRAM properly, then just power it up. Normally the BIOS won't say anything different about it, the difference will instead be measured in benchmarks and, in some cases, can be 'felt' as the system is generally running faster. On occasion you may have to enable L2 Write Back Cache in BIOS setup, but that's only on certain weird motherboards. (Sometimes that option is under a different name, such as "Tag includes Dirty" or "7+1".)

If you still have doubts about your cache size, or you are curious about the kind of performance you're getting, you can use a utility like CACHECHK to help you ascertain how much cache you have, and how fast your memory and cache access speeds are. (Run it without EMM386.EXE active, otherwise you'll get strange behavior.)

CACHECHK.zip

Ascertaining the cache size from CACHECHK is a little tricky at first as it won't outright tell you, but you can ascertain it by observing the access latency times.
Cached ranges will have a smaller "score" number than areas outside of cache, like so:

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1             1    2    4    8   16   32   64   128   256   512   1024     etc..
2<meg range> 28   28   28   28   40   40   40    40    41    47    47....

From a listing like this, you can tell that accesses up to 8K are 28ns, so that would be the "first" level of cache in the system. On your garden variety 486 chip, it's usually up to 8K.
Accesses from 16K up to 256K are 40ns, so that would probably be your "second" level of cache. Sometimes the number at the very end of the "cached" range is a little higher or lower than the others, this is normal (some chipsets are like that).
Everything above 256K scores a higher number, so that would probably be the off-cache access speed.

I should mention that your results will undoubtably vary. Chipsets and memory configurations tend to vary very widely (pun not intended) from system to system.
In case you're curious as to what 'average' 486DX2-66 cache and off-cache scores should be, generally your L2 cache speed "scores" should be below 50 (around 47-ish) and your off-cache scores below 66.
For a DX-33, these numbers may be a little higher.

If CACHECHK gives you a warning about certain areas of memory being "really slow", don't worry too much about it, its algorithm for determining that kind of thing is a little buggy, and will often say that even if said ranges are blazing fast. Also, if certain cached ranges are really close to each other in speed, sometimes CACHECHK gets confused and says you only have one cache - you can disregard this message if, say, the L1 access is 28 and L2 access is something really close (but still discernably different) like 30 or 32, or other really close numbers. Certain *extremely* fast motherboards sometimes return scores like that.

I have inserted the chip on the board and placed the jumpers at 2-3 like the manual indicates. Then I powered on and went to the Award BIOS. Here it said:

Cache Internal & External: Enabled
Sizing Cache & Memory: 64k...ok
(Page Down to other BIOS page)
256/384k Cache Relocation Enabled
Cache Timing Fast
Video Cacheable Disabled
System Cacheable Enabled

It automatically changed my HDD's cylinders (not the rest), and even after I reset the correct values it doesn't boot at all. I'm going to try and boot from EZ Drive boot disk to see what happens. But if it says "sizing cache & memory" at 64k then something's awry here right?

Edit: Turns out that the jumpers were at 2-3 all along. The 256k is recognized and everything works as it should, if I get the chance soon I will give it a look with the cachechk, thank you. It was an inexpensive upgrade so it would always be worth it. As soon as I can I will install the remaining upgrades

Moving slowly but surely, the Trident 8900CL arrived today, installed the Win 3.1 drivers and it has a separate setup for DOS drivers as well. Do you recommend installing the DOS drivers or it won't make a difference for DOS games?

megatron-uk wrote on 2021-05-29, 14:19:

Unless you have specific things you want to run in Windows 3.x, I wouldn't bother with it - it's absolutely not needed if you are only interested in Dos games.

This! Just use DOS Shell if you're not a fan of the command line.

Eep386 wrote on 2021-05-31, 15:30:

ESS cards are a good, generally way cheaper alternative to Creative sound cards (and generally less buggy to boot). Most ISA ESS cards have ESFM, which is a particularly good OPL3 clone that sounds much better than other clones. And their compatibility is better than average for a clone as well; unlike OPTi cards they don't play Joshua Jensen sound system games (such as One Must Fall or Jazz Jackrabbit) at a wrong pitch.

Absolutely, I've never read a bad word about them, unlike the bulk of Creative's catalog...

andre_6 wrote on 2021-06-25, 02:34:

Moving slowly but surely, the Trident 8900CL arrived today, installed the Win 3.1 drivers and it has a separate setup for DOS drivers as well. Do you recommend installing the DOS drivers or it won't make a difference for DOS games?

I doubt the dos drivers will make a difference, Probably more for things like dos word processers and diagnostic tools.
No harm in installing and finding out though. Just make a backup of autoexec.bat and config.sys so you can revert the changes if needed.

MotoPete wrote on 2021-06-25, 05:16:

This! Just use DOS Shell if you're not a fan of the command line. […]
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megatron-uk wrote on 2021-05-29, 14:19:

Unless you have specific things you want to run in Windows 3.x, I wouldn't bother with it - it's absolutely not needed if you are only interested in Dos games.

This! Just use DOS Shell if you're not a fan of the command line.

Eep386 wrote on 2021-05-31, 15:30:

ESS cards are a good, generally way cheaper alternative to Creative sound cards (and generally less buggy to boot). Most ISA ESS cards have ESFM, which is a particularly good OPL3 clone that sounds much better than other clones. And their compatibility is better than average for a clone as well; unlike OPTi cards they don't play Joshua Jensen sound system games (such as One Must Fall or Jazz Jackrabbit) at a wrong pitch.

Absolutely, I've never read a bad word about them, unlike the bulk of Creative's catalog...

I enjoy and always use the command line although I have DOS Shell on it, I just installed Win 3.1 for nostalgic reasons, some things just feel right running on Win .3.1. And Ski Free man, come on!

chinny22 wrote on 2021-06-25, 08:37:

I doubt the dos drivers will make a difference, Probably more for things like dos word processers and diagnostic tools.
No harm in installing and finding out though. Just make a backup of autoexec.bat and config.sys so you can revert the changes if needed.

Thanks, I actually noticed a difference between the old OTI 77 VGA card that came with the pc and the Trident 8900CL while running Doom, which is a tough game for this build to run. High detail demands too much even though you can play it, but low detail plays perfectly. I suspect that when I am able to solder the new oscillator and install the DX-2 66 and the 16mb RAM it may actually be playable in high detail, which is great. According to you guys in this era the processor was the true difference for games, so I'm looking forward to see the improvements. All DOS games I have in there beyond Doom are totally and comfortably playable which is what I wanted. I'm just using Doom as a template to know where the build stands upgrade by upgrade and as a tool to push it

Doom is also an excellent stability test on 386-PIII class systems, if it won't run a timedemo, something is not right.

Today I got the 16mb RAM upgrade that I wanted, but it doesn't work at all. I followed my motherboard's chart and put the 4x4mb 30 pin simm 4x9 modules in bank 0, but it doesn't post. The chart itself says "4x9" which means parity I assume, as it was the same in the seller's page. So what's wrong here? Is parity or non-parity enough to make it not boot?

I also attached a comparison between one module of the original 1x8mb and one of the 4x4mb (lower one). Thanks for your help

When I upgraded the RAM for my 486, I couldn't use chips with a gold connector, only a silver one. Do not ask me why that mattered, but it did. Also, the IBM service manual was wrong, something I am still a bit bitter about.

Gnoman wrote on 2021-07-22, 21:45:

When I upgraded the RAM for my 486, I couldn't use chips with a gold connector, only a silver one. Do not ask me why that mattered, but it did. Also, the IBM service manual was wrong, something I am still a bit bitter about.

I always assume that my lack of knowledge might have something to do with it, but honestly if the issue came down to what you said, it would truly piss me off

Just for grins did you try the ram in the other bank? Do you have another system to test the ram to make sure it's good?

I heard it told back in the day that the different metals meeting produced a tiny voltage that screwed things up. Not sure I believe it though. (Well yes in theory dissimilar metals always make some kind of weak battery, but enough volts to swing a logic high or low the wrong way? Don't think so)

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2021-07-23, 05:14:

Just for grins did you try the ram in the other bank? Do you have another system to test the ram to make sure it's good?

Yes I did, no luck, I did it for this suspicion also: when I mentioned my motherboard model in the beginning of the thread - 486-HC-HD - practically everyone said that it was the same as the 486-VC-HD, they even added it to that board's page as the same but with a simple model name variation: http://www.win3x.org/uh19/motherboard/show/2399
In the first page of this thread you can see the discussion about that. But I still think it may really be a different model, even not knowing in which way... I don't have other 486's, I will keep these modules for the future but it sure was frustrating this time...

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-07-23, 14:13:

I heard it told back in the day that the different metals meeting produced a tiny voltage that screwed things up. Not sure I believe it though. (Well yes in theory dissimilar metals always make some kind of weak battery, but enough volts to swing a logic high or low the wrong way? Don't think so)

So, if I have the correct module combination, on the correct bank, and if parity / non parity is not enough to make it not boot, is the silver / gold plating thing really the issue?...

Yah, shouldn't stop it booting, here's some tech info about why it might be a bad idea long term...
http://ps-2.kev009.com/pcpartnerinfo/ctstips/dbce.htm
But it doesn't seem to bother ISA slots all that much, which are frequently tin on the slot, gold on the card fingers. Sometimes you need to clean everything wiyh alcohol if it gets glitchy, but huge amounts of pitting aren't really seen unless it's a very damp environment. Also I think having voltages pushed across the interface between the metals reverses the ion swaps most of the time.

andre_6 wrote on 2021-05-03, 00:41:

Looking at the board while disassembling, I noticed that one of the two floppy disk drives was not connected. Then looking at these photos, I realise I don't have enough connections.

I would like to connect the two original floppy drives, and to install a CD-ROM drive in there too. Do I need another expansion board like this one?

My appologies for not reading replies but I have commented based on life experience.
This mottherboard with its hard disk controller typically cannot run more than 256mb to 500mb IDE hard disks.
To run a 2gb hard disk it needs a built in IDE controller on the motherboard and you would need to use a dynamic drive overlay that uses a portion of base memory to emulate a larger disk support that cannot be supported on a separate hard disk controller.
The add on controller pictured can run up to 2 disks I recommend 1 cf card adapter and 256mb cf card. I would use the second drive a cdrom unless your audio card has a ide port that would run a crom as well (1-4x speed)
For the best experiences with 486 era a ISA VLB can offer 2 ide ports for up to 4 IDE drives but the best boards have built in IDE and floppy ports some have SCSI.
The hard disk controller pictured can run 2 floppy drives from 1 ribbon cable.

zapbuzz wrote on 2021-07-23, 15:08:

My appologies for not reading replies but I have commented based on life experience. This mottherboard with its hard disk contro […]
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andre_6 wrote on 2021-05-03, 00:41:

Looking at the board while disassembling, I noticed that one of the two floppy disk drives was not connected. Then looking at these photos, I realise I don't have enough connections.

I would like to connect the two original floppy drives, and to install a CD-ROM drive in there too. Do I need another expansion board like this one?

My appologies for not reading replies but I have commented based on life experience.
This mottherboard with its hard disk controller typically cannot run more than 256mb to 500mb IDE hard disks.
To run a 2gb hard disk it needs a built in IDE controller on the motherboard and you would need to use a dynamic drive overlay that uses a portion of base memory to emulate a larger disk support that cannot be supported on a separate hard disk controller.
The add on controller pictured can run up to 2 disks I recommend 1 cf card adapter and 256mb cf card. I would use the second drive a cdrom unless your audio card has a ide port that would run a crom as well (1-4x speed)
For the best experiences with 486 era a ISA VLB can offer 2 ide ports for up to 4 IDE drives but the best boards have built in IDE and floppy ports some have SCSI.
The hard disk controller pictured can run 2 floppy drives from 1 ribbon cable.

Hello, thanks for the input, the second floppy drive is actually dead so that problem solved itself long ago. In terms of setting the HDD, the OS and installing stuff it's all done. But if you do have further tips regarding my latest RAM upgrade problems (on this last thread page) I will be grateful

andre_6 wrote on 2021-07-22, 21:33:

Today I got the 16mb RAM upgrade that I wanted, but it doesn't work at all. I followed my motherboard's chart and put the 4x4mb 30 pin simm 4x9 modules in bank 0, but it doesn't post. The chart itself says "4x9" which means parity I assume, as it was the same in the seller's page. So what's wrong here? Is parity or non-parity enough to make it not boot?

I also attached a comparison between one module of the original 1x8mb and one of the 4x4mb (lower one). Thanks for your help

try adding 1 turn on see if it works, turn off, then 2 turn on see if works etc to see just how many it can handle. (mine only had 4mb)
if it doesnt work with up to 2 sticks grab another 2 see if they work to try find faulty modules

zapbuzz wrote on 2021-07-23, 15:14:

andre_6 wrote on 2021-07-22, 21:33:

Today I got the 16mb RAM upgrade that I wanted, but it doesn't work at all. I followed my motherboard's chart and put the 4x4mb 30 pin simm 4x9 modules in bank 0, but it doesn't post. The chart itself says "4x9" which means parity I assume, as it was the same in the seller's page. So what's wrong here? Is parity or non-parity enough to make it not boot?

I also attached a comparison between one module of the original 1x8mb and one of the 4x4mb (lower one). Thanks for your help

try adding 1 turn on see if it works, turn off, then 2 turn on see if works etc to see just how many it can handle. (mine only had 4mb)

Tried all variations with the 4x4mb modules I acquired, even tried both bank 0 and 1 just to be sure. Starting to think that the silver / gold connectors conflict theory might be the problem

could also be the moherboard only likes 2mb sticks max I remember I tried 4mb ones once but what they didn't work. I assumed they were dead. But 1 and 2mb ones did work.
The base memory address is the most precious running dos games xms is just windows or a ram disk
I hope you have the 640k base memory
qemm memory manager than emm386.exe if you can it better at memory management.

zapbuzz wrote on 2021-07-23, 15:22:

could also be the moherboard only likes 2mb sticks max I remember I tried 4mb ones once but what they didn't work. I assumed they were dead. But 1 and 2mb ones did work.
The base memory address is the most precious running dos games xms is just windows or a ram disk

That's useful, I will have to look into it. If I get to the point where I consider taking the risk I guess I will have to search for 8x2mb modules with silver connectors just to be sure. More than 16mb in this computer isn't worth it. So frustrating buying things blindly like this but oh well. Thanks!

being so old I would settle with 1mb sticks as their lack of 2mb density mean they would last much longer in the same package but best of luck with 2mb