VOGONS


First post, by dr.zeissler

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What are really useful features in the real world on a PII-300 world ?

S3TC SUPPORT
EMBM
TRUEFORM
MPEG1 SUPPORT
MPEG2 SUPPORT
WIN3X DRIVER
WIN9X DRIVER
DX5 HARDWARE-SUPPORT
DX6 HARDWARE-SUPPORT
DX7 HARDWARE-SUPPORT
PS/VS SUPPORT

The machine: P2-400

The Cards (all passive!)
Matrox G400 AGP 32MB
Radeon 7000 AGP 32MB
Radeon 7500LE AGP 64MB
Savage4 AGP 32MB
Voodoo3 AGP 16MB

What do you think?

edit: currently the machine has only P2-233 but it can be upgraded up to P2-433 or via slotket-adapter up to 533. but I will only use real slot1 P2 cpu's. the machine has actually a voodoo3 in it, but I want to check out if there is a better choice. It has Dos/Win3x and Win98se and Win2000 installed.

Last edited by dr.zeissler on 2021-08-18, 19:16. Edited 2 times in total.

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Reply 1 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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I think this is a choice between: Matrox G400 and R7x00/

G400 has EMBM DX6-Support and Win3x/Win9x/etc. drivers
R7x00 has EMBM DX7-Support and Win9x etc. drivers. and S3TC and PS/VS

So what will be more important or useful on a low-end P2-400 (Win3x-drivers or PS-Shaders)

hmm difficult...

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Reply 2 of 22, by 386SX

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Imho if the cpu will be a P2-400 or a bit better they are all good cards but the Radeon 7000 32MB with early light drivers I suppose might have everything needed even if far from a Radeon 7200 64MB (R100 SDR). It does have a complete compatibility for the period correct games and also the full MPEG2 decoding stages. The Savage 4 also is a good card and will perform more or less the same as the Radeon 7000 while maybe with a less video output analog quality and less MPEG2 decoding (still it has Motion Compensation decoding). The G400 imho would be better for a faster cpu while being great for its VGA analog video quality (but the Radeon 7000 might have already the DVI output so it's pointless). The Voodoo3 might need a more powerful cpu and it lacks many features beside the Glide API compatibility. The Radeon 7500 LE I think it's a bit too modern so even if it had more features than the others it doesn't feel ok on such cpu. Imho obviously.

Reply 3 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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Quake2 comparison on P2-266

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Reply 4 of 22, by 386SX

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Was Quake II tested with the 3dfx miniGL for the Voodoo cards? It'd be interesting to see how it run with that cpu and the default OpenGL driver. Quake II was quite an old game and if 'features' are interested the Voodoo2/3 are not exactly the best even if indeed fast with those games having also the miniGL support. 😉

Reply 5 of 22, by Warlord

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I would stick to DX6 support. DX7 gaming requires more power.

Reply 6 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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I just checked what I have already here, pictures are in the works and come shortly. btw. this machine has also a Voodoo1 in it. In order to stay compatible I will upgrade to P2-300 or P2-333 not more.

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Reply 7 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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I did not have checked what cards these are (DX5-9) I only took out AGP cards and took photos.

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Reply 8 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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I did not have checked what cards these are (DX5-9) I only took out AGP cards and took photos.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 9 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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I did not have checked what cards these are (DX5-9) I only took out AGP cards and took photos.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 10 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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I did not have checked what cards these are (DX5-9) I only took out AGP cards and took photos.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 11 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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I took one of the G400 passive 32MB dual head and will make the first tests against the currently used voodoo3.

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Reply 12 of 22, by dr.zeissler

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The G400 is a great card. It's really good.

pros:
- excellent image quality
- good dos-compatibility (sex-demo has all effects, do works, yo works.
- good win-compatibility
- Win9x/Win3x drivers
- Vesa3 support
- AmigaXL works OOTB and Workbench can be set to 1024x768 32Bit great!

cons:
- some dos demos don't work (lamedaddy textscroller stutters)
- on a P2-233 it's not fast enough for EMBM demo (even in 640x480)
- a bit stuttering in hardware mode jazz2 in 640x400/8bvit (voodoo3 was smooth here)

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Reply 14 of 22, by 386SX

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There're many cards there that would fit for a correct Dx6/7 config in that collection. I'd consider the Savage4 cards with latest drivers even if I see some are without heatsink, I didn't remember having seen many without, maybe it's better to check the chip temperature if the heatsink were eventually detached without signs and same thing I'd check for another card I'd test even if a bit far from a time correct config, the Geforce2 MX 200 if early drivers didn't impact too much on the cpu for its features list for a 2000 low end config, maybe if using the fastest Pentium III possible on that mainboard.
Also I'd consider the Matrox G450s that I can see, not really fast but really great vga output quality and stability more or less around the Savage4 and Radeon 7000 performances.

Reply 15 of 22, by zyga64

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I would use Radeon 7500LE. Radeon 7000 doesn't have TnL engine. Even on P2 400 it is usable.
Beware ot third party Rage/Radeon builds - they can have poor analog VGA image quality. Build by ATI cards have excellent image !

Although not period correct - Geforce 4MX is also very good card. Excelent DOS and Windows 9x compatibility with correct drivers (for me the best is 40.72), video signal is also much better than earlier Nvidia cards (2MX for example). When it comes to performance, they have nothing to be ashamed of (on Geforce 2GTS level).

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Reply 17 of 22, by 386SX

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It'd be interesting to know if that was a PCB manufacturer choice to not use the heatsink or simply detached itself later maybe. There were indeed mixed situations like the Riva128 chip that did reach high temps without the heatsink and some did use it also the Geforce 2 MX originally had a big heatsink while some PCB brand decided not to install it.

About the Geforce 4 MX while I didn't use it I agree it might be a great late DX7 card but still far from period correct. It might work I suppose but the driver overhead might be a bit too much for the old cpu and also I'd check the bus wattage compatibility just like for the Radeon 7500. Anyway I still prefer the range of cards that might have been used in that period correct time. The Geforce 2 MX for example sounds always as a good feature full GPU for any late 90 - early 2000 configs while often with low quality VGA outputs.

Last edited by 386SX on 2021-08-19, 16:01. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 18 of 22, by BitWrangler

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Often you find that unsinked GPU are clocked under official spec, and large sinked GPU are clocked over official spec.

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Reply 19 of 22, by 386SX

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Indeed I suppose it was a good way to keep costs lower. Just like in those years the usage of a active cooler wasn't exactly an easy choice. Far from nowdays where things got quite ridicolous from a cooling point of view. 😁