VOGONS


First post, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

The article.

1. You don't actually need it -- No, think about this. Vista doesn't do anything you can't already do with XP. About the only si […]
Show full quote

1. You don't actually need it -- No, think about this. Vista doesn't do anything you can't already do with XP. About the only significant shift requiring Vista is DirextX10, but as no titles support it yet and, according to John Carmack (the godfather of modern gaming) there's no need to yet either.

2. Cost $$ -- It's so blindingly obvious, most people will be blinded to it. You already have XP, and alternatives like Linux are free. If you really want to throw money away, go give it to a local charity.

3. On that note, it's outrageously overpriced -- at least in Australia. As revealed in the current APC, even after taking into account the profit margin Microsoft Australia previously applied to XP (as well as exchange rates, as you would expect), Australians are paying hundreds of dollars more for their copies than in the US. In fact, it's cheaper for Australians to buy Vista direct by mail order from the States. If you think Microsoft Australia is reaming us, vote with your wallet.

4. Upgrading hardware -- XP was demanding at release, but Vista more so. If you have an older machine that struggles with XP at the best of times, Vista is out of your ballpark unless you spend even more money to upgrade. If this is you, see point 1.

5. Driver support -- Key hardware like video and sound is crippled at the moment -- while Nvidia is working furiously to get a stable driver for the 8800 out by the 30th, there's still no SLI support for any of the Nvidia range. And thanks to the removal of hardware accelerated 3D sound in Vista, Creative's popular DirectSound based EAX no longer works at all, muting this feature for just about all gaming titles on the market today. Creative is in the process of coding a layer for its drivers to translate EAX calls to the OpenAL API which is seperate from Vista, but going by past experience with Creative drivers we won't see these any time soon.

6. Applications that don't work -- there's been plenty of coverage about applications that won't work without a vendor update. These include anti-virus, backup and security software such as those from Symantec, Sophos and ilk; CD and DVD burning tools like the suite from Nero need updated versions to work; and even basic disk management and partitioning tools such as Paragon's Hard Disk Manager are awaiting an update for Vista to be compatible. How many more will fail as Vista enters mainstream? Even Firefox has issues with Vista.

7. It's a big fat target -- with a new and untested in the global wild architecture, virus and malware authors are going to work overtime exploiting the holes Microsoft missed. In fact it's already happening. Loath though I am to use the word 'security' and 'Windows' in the same sentence, Windows XP has at least been patched to the hilt and can be used with a plethora of reasonably effective security tools that work now, without waiting for an update down the track.

8. UAC -- Oh yes, the Microsoft solution for an operating system where mutli-user was an afterthought. Sure, you can disable it, but the OS then makes it clear then that the onus is on the user for any damaging programs that got to run with permissions, rather than with Windows in the first place. If you do have it on, it is going to annoy the hell out of you. It pops up far too frequently, and even on a fast PC, the UAC screen takes too long to come up and disappear.

9. DRM -- And to a lesser degree TPM -- were made for the RIAAs and MPAAs of this world, and the even tighter integration of copy protection mechanisms and 'Windows Rights Management' into vista are nothing more than a liability to you, the user. This ComputerWorld piece says is succinctly: 'it's hard to sing the praises of technology designed to make life harder for its users.' As for TPM, this short animated video shows just how far the rabbit hole goes. And to think you pay for the privilege of having the use of media you purchased and own dictated by third parties, even on your own system.

10. The draconian license -- somehow, Microsoft has forgotten that it built its business from products that empowered its customers, not hampered them. Of course, we forget that Microsoft's customers aren't you and I, afterall (see point 9). Aside from the backward thinking that is licensing, and not actually owning, your software new terms with Vista include being able to transfer the license only once; half the limit compared to XP for Home Basic and Premium on how many machines can connect to yours for sharing, printing and accessing the Internet; limits on the number of devices that can use Vista's Media Center features; activation and validation governing your ability to upgrade hardware and use Windows itself; and outlawing the use of Home Basic and Premium with virtualisation software, and Ultimate only if DRM enabled content and applications aren't used. But then again, who reads these anyway?

Reply 1 of 11, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista
There are lots of things that Vista can do that XP can't. Although alot of things can be done in XP using 3rd party programs that's not the point of a new operating system. The point is that alot of this functionality is now included in Vista.

2. The cost of buying Windows is built in when you buy a new PC. In some rare cases you can buy a new PC without paying the Microsoft tax....mabye.
Buying a new OS is not throwing money away. Throwing money away is throwing money away.

3. Who the **** cares about the the price of Vista in Australia except Australians? Also it's not like they don't have alternatives as the article already states.

4. All you need is more memory. (Just like all upgrades to Windows) If you don't want the fancy effects or extra features then guess what? They can be turned off.

5. Who the **** cares about SLI? Like 1% of gamers are using SLI. Basically the idiots with too much money and not enough sense.

The Alchemy wrapper has already been released by Creative Labs but it's still in beta and it only works for X-Fi cards. All other sound cards can only play DirectSound games in stereo mode (I'm playing NWN2 with my Audigy 2 in Vista right now and I only have stereo).

6.

6. I fail to see the issue here. Antivirus/Backup and Security software will always need to be updated anyway....and most home users should be using the free antivirus/security software anyway. If your paying for it for home use then your a dumbass. As for backup software Vista includes a crippled Backup program that should be fine for most Windows users. If that isn't sufficient then ohmygod! they'll just have to update their Acronis and they should be good.

Alot of the free CD burning programs (which is all most home users need anyway) work fine in Vista and can be downloaded for free. The built-in cd burning program should be fine for most home users data uses.

Firefox has no issues with Vista.

7. So is XP. So is anything. 2000 is based on NT4 code. XP is based on 2000 code. 2003 is based on XP code. Vista is based on 2003 code. Ever keep track of the security updates for Windows? Usually the updates update the same vulnerability in all versions of Windows. Hmmm, I wonder why?

8. UAC. Get over it. It's not that bad. If it is that bad for you then turn it off and STFU. I'm tired of spoiled Windows users complaining about their bad habits.

9. You don't like DRM or TPM? Then turn it off and don't use it. It really is that simple. If your already using XP then you have no reason to complain about DRM in Vista.

10. Read the XP license or don't. (Who does anyway?) It's equally as bad. Who gives a crap anyway? Do what 99% of the world does and do whatever the heck you want with your OS after you buy it. The complain on the internet that you have to haxor the OS to get your "rights" back. If your using XP and complaining about Vista's "draconian" license then your a hypocrit.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 2 of 11, by Reckless

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Bit angry there DosFreak?

Reply 3 of 11, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Tired of stupid shit.

People complaining about Vista when most of the complainers will end up using it anyway.

and all of these idiotic lists of why they won't upgrade to Vista which are mostly filled with erronous information.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 4 of 11, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
DosFreak wrote:

...most of the complainers will end up using it anyway.

Yup. It has always been the case anyway --from 98 to 2000, and 2000 to XP, etc.

It's kinda funny to observe, though. I guess Microsoft is the only company where people keep complaining about their products, but always end up using them anyway. 😁

Reply 5 of 11, by Kippesoep

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I agree with a few parts of the original list:

3. For me the price is the greatest impediment. There seems to have been a direct substitution of dollars for euros, which means Vista (and software in general) is much more expensive here in Europe than in the US -- it's even worse that the upgrade version cannot do a proper clean install, meaning I need to buy the full version. I've just bought a new PC and it came with a Vista upgrade voucher, but that only gets me Vista Home Premium, which doesn't include Remote Desktop and is therefore worse than useless to me. DosFreak, it's not just Australians... this matters to about 95% of the world's population (i.e. everybody not in the US).

5. I have several recent sound cards and network cards that didn't work with the RC (the lack of network card drivers also made it impossible to download any others). Hope the drivers for RTM are better.

8. I will have no problem disabling UAC. Security has never been a problem for me, as long as you apply some common sense to opening e-mails and keep auto-update enabled. It is unfortunate that the "common sense" bit seems to rule out 99% of the world's population. Vista's security may be a bit better in general, but UAC necessarily still asks the user. Never underestimate the stupidity of the user. In almost all cases, they will not understand the question they're being asked and they will simply click to allow it. No OS will ever truly be secure as long as the user is involved.

9. DRM. I simply hate the idea, even if it doesn't affect me. I never use my PC for media playback anyway, but the thought bugs me. And the DRM measures in Vista are much more draconian than the ones in XP. It's not something that can be disabled.

Another incredibly annoying thing is that it is only available in a translated version (even the dowloadable version is US-only). I never use software in Dutch. Maybe I'll buy a copy next time I'm in the US, but that means I won't upgrade for another 3 years or so. I can wait. If the release candidates were any indication, it's a nice upgrade, but nothing really special nor essential.

I don't really see what all the fuss is about anyway. It's just an OS. Its main purpose is to allow you easy access to the files and programs on your computer and enable you to run applications smoothly. It does that, as did XP.

Reply 6 of 11, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

You should be able to use XP network drivers but they will use a translation layer to go from NDIS5 to NDIS6. Whereas Vista network drivers are @ NDIS6. Other than that they should work. Not sure if there's any difference in stability or not.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 7 of 11, by Kippesoep

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

There was for me. The whole thing came crashing down. Haven't got RTM yet, so I can't comment on that. Funny thing is that it was a simple Realtek card as well as a US Robotics wireless card that it didn't have drivers for. Not exactly obscure makes. Does fine with an on-board VIA Rhine II, though.

My site: Ramblings on mostly tech stuff.

Reply 9 of 11, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

The upgrade check doesn't seem to bad especially with how Vista handles upgrades:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista … grade_clean.asp

If price is a big factor it would be worth it.

Just install Vista, upgrade it and then image the install.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 10 of 11, by Jorpho

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
DosFreak wrote:

7. So is XP. So is anything. 2000 is based on NT4 code. XP is based on 2000 code. 2003 is based on XP code. Vista is based on 2003 code. Ever keep track of the security updates for Windows? Usually the updates update the same vulnerability in all versions of Windows. Hmmm, I wonder why?

Didn't XP have a whole bunch of severe vulnerabilities that did not affect Windows 2000?

9. You don't like DRM or TPM? Then turn it off and don't use it. It really is that simple. If your already using XP then you have no reason to complain about DRM in Vista.

Really?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

It's kinda funny to observe, though. I guess Microsoft is the only company where people keep complaining about their products, but always end up using them anyway.

Everquest? 😁

Reply 11 of 11, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Didn't XP have a whole bunch of severe vulnerabilities that did not affect Windows 2000?

I said usually.

Really?

Yes, Really. I'm tired of seeing people bash Vista's DRM but not bothering to post why they don't like Vista's "DRM". WTF are they talking about? Activation? Blueray/HDDVD support? (Which if they didn't support DRM then you wouldn't be able to play the movies at all. TPM? (AFAIK, there's barely anything left in Vista having to do with that and it requires compliant hardware THAT CAN BE TURNED OFF).

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline