agent_x007 wrote on Today, 15:56:

Just a note (not sure if mentioned earlier) :
Win98(SE) requires it's partition to be within first 128GB of any hard drive (actual limit = 137GB or 128GiB).
Any additional partitions don't have this limit (just OS partition).

I don't think he's booting from the large drive.

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 15:47:

Good job I did get that drive working properly as the one I'd ordered IS faulty 🤣. It just makes a clicking sound.

Often a clicking sound is a sign that the controller is trying to use drive geometry that is way off. Or it could be a faulty controller too. The drive might be constantly resetting.

douglar wrote on Today, 16:16:

I don't think he's booting from the large drive. […]
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agent_x007 wrote on Today, 15:56:

Just a note (not sure if mentioned earlier) :
Win98(SE) requires it's partition to be within first 128GB of any hard drive (actual limit = 137GB or 128GiB).
Any additional partitions don't have this limit (just OS partition).

I don't think he's booting from the large drive.

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 15:47:

Good job I did get that drive working properly as the one I'd ordered IS faulty 🤣. It just makes a clicking sound.

Often a clicking sound is a sign that the drive geometry is way off. Or it could be a faulty controller too.

I've tried it on my retro PC and via my IDE/SATA adapter on my main PC. Is there a way of correcting faulty geometry? If it was a 3D mesh, I'd have no problems fixing it. 🤣

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 16:19:

I've tried it on my retro PC and via my IDE/SATA adapter on my main PC. Is there a way of correcting faulty geometry? If it was a 3D mesh, I'd have no problems fixing it. 🤣

What is the make and model of the drive?

douglar wrote on Today, 17:46:

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 16:19:

I've tried it on my retro PC and via my IDE/SATA adapter on my main PC. Is there a way of correcting faulty geometry? If it was a 3D mesh, I'd have no problems fixing it. 🤣

What is the make and model of the drive?

It's an Hitachi Deskstar from 2003. Model number: IC35L 120AVV207-0.

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 17:59:

douglar wrote on Today, 17:46:

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 16:19:

I've tried it on my retro PC and via my IDE/SATA adapter on my main PC. Is there a way of correcting faulty geometry? If it was a 3D mesh, I'd have no problems fixing it. 🤣

What is the make and model of the drive?

It's an Hitachi Deskstar from 2003. Model number: IC35L 120AVV207-0.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/107857 … y-v13-english/3

You want to use an 80 conductor cable that is less than 45cm long and a decent power supply because that drive is going to pull some amps.

The drive is going to report that it has this geometry:

1Data organization (logical)
2Number of heads        16
3Sectors/track          63
4Number of cylinders    16,383

But those numbers are special values that indicate "You should be using LBA Geometry". If you try to use those values, it either won't work or you will see 8.4GB.

So you want to make sure you are using LBA geometry with whatever INT13h hander is booting your computer.

That could be set up in your motherboard BIOS drive table, or it could be in the configuration screens used by the BIOS on a drive controller, or in a drive overlay setup stored on the boot drive. You remember the discussion about int 13h, yes?

Anyway, sometimes a "click click click" just means the motor is busted in the drive.

The retroweb has a brochure.

I have attached an excerpt.

This suggests a 'physical heads' value of 4 for this drive.

The brochure says 'GB is equal to 1 billion bytes', so they are using the bullshit marketting version of measurement, instead of the digital counting powers of 2 method.

With 120,000,000 bytes, divided by 512 bytes per sector, then divided by 4 heads, we get 58,593.

Typical IDE disks use 63 sectors per track.

This gives us an idealized geometry of:

930 Cyls
4 heads
63 sectors

(Except my coffee has not kicked in. Which is why I am just now seeing that I did 120 million bytes, not 120 billion bytes. whoops)

Given that 4 heads will give a cyls number waaaaay outside spec, I'd want to see the max_lba value the drive reports, then work backward from there.

The drive will want a heads value that is evenly divisible by 4, if it has 4 physical ones.

Since they are using bullshit marketting units instead of *real* units, max_lba is rather important to know.

douglar wrote on Today, 18:13:

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/107857 … y-v13-english/3 […]
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DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 17:59:

douglar wrote on Today, 17:46:

What is the make and model of the drive?

It's an Hitachi Deskstar from 2003. Model number: IC35L 120AVV207-0.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/107857 … y-v13-english/3

You want to use an 80 conductor cable that is less than 45cm long and a decent power supply because that drive is going to pull some amps.

The drive is going to report that it has this geometry:

Copy code to clipboard

1Data organization (logical)
2Number of heads        16
3Sectors/track          63
4Number of cylinders    16,383

But those numbers are special values that indicate "You should be using LBA Geometry". If you try to use those values, it either won't work or you will see 8.4GB.

So you want to make sure you are using LBA geometry with whatever INT13h hander is booting your computer.

That could be set up in your motherboard BIOS drive table, or it could be in the configuration screens used by the BIOS on a drive controller, or in a drive overlay setup stored on the boot drive. You remember the discussion about int 13h, yes?

Anyway, sometimes a "click click click" just means the motor is busted in the drive.

Ah. Well, I was certainly connecting it via an 80 conductor cable. I believe my PSU is some cheap FSP Group ATX 300W 80 PLUS BRONZE model. I didn't realise some HDD required more power than others, especially older hardware/hard drives. Would I be better off getting one more period accurate, like from the 90s...?

But yes, I remember the talk about 13h. 😀 Unfortunately though, I've not had any luck getting it recognised connected to IDE 1 or the RAID controller. When I connected it to the same cable as the C drive on IDE 1, it failed to recognise any HDD. When I connected it to the RAID controller, it failed to detect any drive, including E. The RAID BIOS/configuration screen reported an error.

Ok. Further digging gives me this.

This sad drive has a max_lba of 241254720

I feel my coffee kicking in.

ECHS caps at 8gb, which is why the logical geometry is what it is. (That lovely int13 limit)

As for 'disk emits click of doooom'...

Does it emit click of death with no interface cable on? (Just power?)

I recall DeskStar drives having an infamous problem with click of death.

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/ibm … eathstar.11311/

It's important to diagnose if this is from the interface or not.

wierd_w wrote on Today, 19:16:

Ok. Further digging gives me this. […]
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Ok. Further digging gives me this.

This sad drive has a max_lba of 241254720

I feel my coffee kicking in.

ECHS caps at 8gb, which is why the logical geometry is what it is. (That lovely int13 limit)

As for 'disk emits click of doooom'...

Does it emit click of death with no interface cable on? (Just power?)

I recall DeskStar drives having an infamous problem with click of death.

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/ibm … eathstar.11311/

It's important to diagnose if this is from the interface or not.

Ahh, do they now. Interesting. I haven’t tested it with just the power yet. I’ll give it a try a bit later. Thanks. If it only happens with the interface cable, what then? What would the next move be?

Emits click of death only with interface attached == 'potentially correctable problem with interface signalling.' Maybe issue with grounded ioready pin, for example

Emits click of death with just power connected == Congrats! It's a paperweight!

wierd_w wrote on Today, 19:59:

Emits click of death only with interface attached == 'potentially correctable problem with interface signalling.' Maybe issue with grounded ioready pin, for example

Emits click of death with just power connected == Congrats! It's a paperweight!

Hahaha. Yeah, I'm guessing it'll be the latter, but we'll see. I can't imagine it got damaged in transit though. Pretty sure it was securely packaged.