DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 15:27:

I'm still not sure if my Yamaha YMF719E S supports intelligent mode...? Or is this where I would need to buy a Sound Blaster 16...?

EDIT: Okay, I'm getting the impression it does from a few posts I've seen online. Whew.

Neither of these cards support intelligent mode for MPU-401.

The only cards that do are either legacy Roland MIDI interface cards or compatible cards (e.g. Music Quest MQX-32M), Roland MPU-401AT, Roland LAPC-I (also requires a proprietary MIDI connector), Roland SCC-1 or SCC-1A,PicoGUS or the PCMIDI interfaces both available as a stand-alone MIDI interface or included on various bespoke cards like Orpheus, Orpheus II, MK1869 add-on, etc.

Using the MT-32 with pretty much anything else will require SoftMPU for cases where intelligent mode is required.

Shponglefan wrote on Today, 16:42:

Neither of these cards support intelligent mode for MPU-401. […]
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DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 15:27:

I'm still not sure if my Yamaha YMF719E S supports intelligent mode...? Or is this where I would need to buy a Sound Blaster 16...?

EDIT: Okay, I'm getting the impression it does from a few posts I've seen online. Whew.

Neither of these cards support intelligent mode for MPU-401.

The only cards that do are either legacy Roland MIDI interface cards or compatible cards (e.g. Music Quest MQX-32M), Roland MPU-401AT, Roland LAPC-I (also requires a proprietary MIDI connector), Roland SCC-1 or SCC-1A, or the PCMIDI interfaces both available as a stand-alone MIDI interface or included on various bespoke cards like Orpheus, Orpheus II, MK1869 add-on, etc.

Using the MT-32 with pretty much anything else will require SoftMPU for cases where intelligent mode is required.

Ah. Damn. 🙁 So it's not a simple plug and play scenario I thought. So what's the common solution for those with an MT-32? Is a PicoGUS the only logical solution?

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 16:52:

Shponglefan wrote on Today, 16:42:

Neither of these cards support intelligent mode for MPU-401. […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 15:27:

I'm still not sure if my Yamaha YMF719E S supports intelligent mode...? Or is this where I would need to buy a Sound Blaster 16...?

EDIT: Okay, I'm getting the impression it does from a few posts I've seen online. Whew.

Neither of these cards support intelligent mode for MPU-401.

The only cards that do are either legacy Roland MIDI interface cards or compatible cards (e.g. Music Quest MQX-32M), Roland MPU-401AT, Roland LAPC-I (also requires a proprietary MIDI connector), Roland SCC-1 or SCC-1A, or the PCMIDI interfaces both available as a stand-alone MIDI interface or included on various bespoke cards like Orpheus, Orpheus II, MK1869 add-on, etc.

Using the MT-32 with pretty much anything else will require SoftMPU for cases where intelligent mode is required.

Ah. Damn. 🙁 So it's not a simple plug and play scenario I thought. So what's the common solution for those with an MT-32? Is a PicoGUS the only logical solution?

The MT-32 will still work with a lot of games . Intelligent mode is only required for a subset of games that use it.

You can use SoftMPU for sound cards that don't support it, or you can use one of the cards I listed in my prior post that natively support intelligent mode.

Shponglefan wrote on Today, 16:57:

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 16:52:

Shponglefan wrote on Today, 16:42:

Neither of these cards support intelligent mode for MPU-401.

The only cards that do are either legacy Roland MIDI interface cards or compatible cards (e.g. Music Quest MQX-32M), Roland MPU-401AT, Roland LAPC-I (also requires a proprietary MIDI connector), Roland SCC-1 or SCC-1A, or the PCMIDI interfaces both available as a stand-alone MIDI interface or included on various bespoke cards like Orpheus, Orpheus II, MK1869 add-on, etc.

Using the MT-32 with pretty much anything else will require SoftMPU for cases where intelligent mode is required.

Ah. Damn. 🙁 So it's not a simple plug and play scenario I thought. So what's the common solution for those with an MT-32? Is a PicoGUS the only logical solution?

The MT-32 will still work with a lot of games . Intelligent mode is only required for a subset of games that use it.

You can use SoftMPU for sound cards that don't support it, or you can use one of the cards I listed in my prior post that natively support intelligent mode.

Ohhh, I see. Okay. Is there a comprehensive list of games that require intelligent mode? I've seen a couple of threads on here, but was wondering if there's a wiki list? Also, what exactly is intelligent mode? And what's the difference with SoftMPU? Thanks.

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 15:27:

Oh nice! Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll have to keep my eye out for this. 😀 I'll likely back it, although the Kickstarter for the Broken Sword 2 remaster starts soon, so I've no idea when I'll get around to it. ^^;

I'm still not sure if my Yamaha YMF719E S supports intelligent mode...? Or is this where I would need to buy a Sound Blaster 16...?

EDIT: Okay, I'm getting the impression it does from a few posts I've seen online. Whew.

It doesn't out of the box, but it will work with SoftMPU to enable it. I used one of those with my McCake before I got my PicoGUS and moved to that.

The list of cards that have Intelligent mode out of the box is extremely small as it was only needed by the MT32, and even then only some of games that supported it. Sound cards that support MPU-401 Intelligent Mode?

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 17:18:

Ohhh, I see. Okay. Is there a comprehensive list of games that require intelligent mode? I've seen a couple of threads on here, but was wondering if there's a wiki list? Also, what exactly is intelligent mode? And what's the difference with SoftMPU? Thanks.

Just check the Wiki, it lists what you're looking for. https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _computer_games

Also not there are two versions of the MT-32. There are bugs in the original firmware that were fixed. But some games don't play correctly with one version or the other. Then there's also the CM32 which is an MT32 with an extra sound bank of digital effects that some games used. Like laser shot, door creaking, etc. It's a big reason I recommend people try out Munt or just use MT-32 Pi first. You can quickly which which firmware is loaded and end up with higher quality audio than real devices.

Intelligent mode enables an hardware interrupt on the MPU401 interface. Games that need it basically need to get an acknowledge signal back before they will send the next MIDI message. For data transfer that makes sense, but music, not so much. So it wasn't used in the General MIDI standard. Essentially SoftMPU will watch for messages and then just generates an ACK message to keep things flowing. It's just something that's a hassle that doesn't do anything useful. The work arounds aren't 100% true original functionality. But that was setup in a sound production environment. Not for playing games. So only a handful of things need it.

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 17:18:

Ohhh, I see. Okay. Is there a comprehensive list of games that require intelligent mode? I've seen a couple of threads on here, but was wondering if there's a wiki list? Also, what exactly is intelligent mode? And what's the difference with SoftMPU? Thanks.

SScorpio listed the link above, but here it is again just in case: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _computer_games

My understanding of the MPU-401 interface's modes are there are two of them: UART mode and intelligent (aka normal) mode. The UART mode facilitates just basic MIDI data transmission between computer and the MIDI device in question. Whereas intelligent mode allows for the MPU-401 interface to perform more MIDI functions including acting as its own MIDI sequencer. In the latter case, the idea is to offload more the MIDI sequencing functionality into hardware thus freeing up the computer's CPU. This would be more of an issue in the early days of MIDI sequencing when computers were less powerful.

In practice, as SScorpio mentions, there is an interrupt which is used by the interface so the computer knows when to send more data in this mode.

SoftMPU as I understand it functions as a TSR that will do this in software rather than relying on MIDI interface hardware. Therefore it's possible to use games that require intelligent mode with MIDI interfaces that don't support it.

SScorpio wrote on Today, 17:31:

Then there's also the CM32 which is an MT32 with an extra sound bank of digital effects that some games used.

Specifically this includes the Roland CM-32L, CM-64 and the CM-500, as well as the LAPC-I internal card. It does not include the CM-32P, which is for PCM audio and has no use in Western PC gaming.

SScorpio wrote on Today, 17:31:

Just check the Wiki, it lists what you're looking for. https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _computer_games […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 17:18:

Ohhh, I see. Okay. Is there a comprehensive list of games that require intelligent mode? I've seen a couple of threads on here, but was wondering if there's a wiki list? Also, what exactly is intelligent mode? And what's the difference with SoftMPU? Thanks.

Just check the Wiki, it lists what you're looking for. https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _computer_games

Also not there are two versions of the MT-32. There are bugs in the original firmware that were fixed. But some games don't play correctly with one version or the other. Then there's also the CM32 which is an MT32 with an extra sound bank of digital effects that some games used. Like laser shot, door creaking, etc. It's a big reason I recommend people try out Munt or just use MT-32 Pi first. You can quickly which which firmware is loaded and end up with higher quality audio than real devices.

Intelligent mode enables an hardware interrupt on the MPU401 interface. Games that need it basically need to get an acknowledge signal back before they will send the next MIDI message. For data transfer that makes sense, but music, not so much. So it wasn't used in the General MIDI standard. Essentially SoftMPU will watch for messages and then just generates an ACK message to keep things flowing. It's just something that's a hassle that doesn't do anything useful. The work arounds aren't 100% true original functionality. But that was setup in a sound production environment. Not for playing games. So only a handful of things need it.

Thanks for the explanation. 🙂 And yeah, I’m aware of the two different versions. The one I won is the original. I believe I checked the list of which games work better with what version, but I’ll have another look. I think the games I own are fine with the original. Can the original’s firmware be updated to get the fixes? Or is that too much hassle to bother with?

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 18:25:

Thanks for the explanation. 🙂 And yeah, I’m aware of the two different versions. The one I won is the original. I believe I checked the list of which games work better with what version, but I’ll have another look. I think the games I own are fine with the original. Can the original’s firmware be updated to get the fixes? Or is that too much hassle to bother with?

The difference isn't just firmware, it's a hardware revision (different processor).

Personally the best combination of devices I have found is having a MT-32 'old' alongside a CM-32L or CM-64. This basically covers all the bases when it comes to MT-32 / CM-32L supported games.

Shponglefan wrote on Today, 18:13:

SScorpio listed the link above, but here it is again just in case: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _computer_gam […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 17:18:

Ohhh, I see. Okay. Is there a comprehensive list of games that require intelligent mode? I've seen a couple of threads on here, but was wondering if there's a wiki list? Also, what exactly is intelligent mode? And what's the difference with SoftMPU? Thanks.

SScorpio listed the link above, but here it is again just in case: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _computer_games

My understanding of the MPU-401 interface's modes are there are two of them: UART mode and intelligent (aka normal) mode. The UART mode facilitates just basic MIDI data transmission between computer and the MIDI device in question. Whereas intelligent mode allows for the MPU-401 interface to perform more MIDI functions including acting as its own MIDI sequencer. In the latter case, the idea is to offload more the MIDI sequencing functionality into hardware thus freeing up the computer's CPU. This would be more of an issue in the early days of MIDI sequencing when computers were less powerful.

In practice, as SScorpio mentions, there is an interrupt which is used by the interface so the computer knows when to send more data in this mode.

SoftMPU as I understand it functions as a TSR that will do this in software rather than relying on MIDI interface hardware. Therefore it's possible to use games that require intelligent mode with MIDI interfaces that don't support it.

Thanks for explaining, too. Things are a bit more clearer. 😀

Ahh, that's the same list I read before; didn't realise it also includes which games require intelligent mode. Great. Thought I'd bookmarked it, too.

Shponglefan wrote on Today, 18:32:

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 18:25:

Thanks for the explanation. 🙂 And yeah, I’m aware of the two different versions. The one I won is the original. I believe I checked the list of which games work better with what version, but I’ll have another look. I think the games I own are fine with the original. Can the original’s firmware be updated to get the fixes? Or is that too much hassle to bother with?

The difference isn't just firmware, it's a hardware revision (different processor).

Personally the best combination of devices I have found is having a MT-32 'old' alongside a CM-32L or CM-64. This basically covers all the bases when it comes to MT-32 / CM-32L supported games.

I see. Makes sense. I'm hoping not to get any more sound canvases after this. Mainly because of space and complicating the setup further. It's likely I'll also need to get a mixer at some point. I'm not even quite sure what CM-32L or CM-64s are. Are they cheaper alternatives to the MT-32? Or modified?

Ahh. Checking over the list I see a few of the games have distortion and incorrect sounds with the old MT-32. 🙁

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 18:38:

I see. Makes sense. I'm hoping not to get any more sound canvases after this. Mainly because of space and complicating the setup further. It's likely I'll also need to get a mixer at some point. I'm not even quite sure what CM-32L or CM-64s are. Are they cheaper alternatives to the MT-32? Or modified?

The CM-32L and CM-64 are beige colored sound modules based on MT-32 hardware. Unlike the MT-32, the CM-series lacks the LCD panel and most of the front controls. They just have a power switch and volume knob.

They take up a similar amount of physical room as an MT-32. Below is a pic of one of my setups with the CM-64 on top of the MT-32. I get around the space issue by putting them underneath my monitor stand.

And yes, if you start getting multiple sound modules a mixer starts to become essential hardware, and possibly a MIDI splitter as well.

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 18:45:

Ahh. Checking over the list I see a few of the games have distortion and incorrect sounds with the old MT-32. 🙁

It may or may not be an issue in practice. I've listed to different games that are reported to have issues with certain modules, but sometimes those issues aren't that noticeable if at all.

Shponglefan wrote on Today, 19:38:

The CM-32L and CM-64 are beige colored sound modules based on MT-32 hardware. Unlike the MT-32, the CM-series lacks the LCD pane […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 18:38:

I see. Makes sense. I'm hoping not to get any more sound canvases after this. Mainly because of space and complicating the setup further. It's likely I'll also need to get a mixer at some point. I'm not even quite sure what CM-32L or CM-64s are. Are they cheaper alternatives to the MT-32? Or modified?

The CM-32L and CM-64 are beige colored sound modules based on MT-32 hardware. Unlike the MT-32, the CM-series lacks the LCD panel and most of the front controls. They just have a power switch and volume knob.

They take up a similar amount of physical room as an MT-32. Below is a pic of one of my setups with the CM-64 on top of the MT-32. I get around the space issue by putting them underneath my monitor stand.

And yes, if you start getting multiple sound modules a mixer starts to become essential hardware, and possibly a MIDI splitter as well.

Ahh, gotcha. Thanks. Looking on eBay UK doesn't appear to come up with... anything. Plenty of power cables though.

I'm just not sure what the best affordable mixer would be. I'm guessing I'm going to need one even if I have just two sound modules...?

Shponglefan wrote on Today, 19:41:

DustyShinigami wrote on Today, 18:45:

Ahh. Checking over the list I see a few of the games have distortion and incorrect sounds with the old MT-32. 🙁

It may or may not be an issue in practice. I've listed to different games that are reported to have issues with certain modules, but sometimes those issues aren't that noticeable if at all.

Hmm. Guess I'll just have to wait and see on a game-by-game basis.