MST wrote:

"Failed to initialize Creative ALchemy, falling back to dsound.dll" means you do not have valid license. Does it work fine with any other game or not?
Maybe following post will help with your RX: http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=7 … ll=1#post613093

lowenz wrote:

Splinter Cell series AND R6 series use "DARE Audio" tecnology, maybe the problem with ALchemy is related to that technology and not to Dsound (an interface for the device) EAX handling.
Try another Splinter Cell, can you?

Sorry for the slow response, work n stuff. As for EAX capable games...

SC: Pandora Tomorrow - Can not check the EAX box in audio settings. Setting "EAX" to True and "EAX_Capable" to True in SplinterCell2User.ini have no effect, still greyed out box in audio settings and no difference in-game as far as I've heard. Same goes for the first game.

Hitman: Blood Money - Extremely subtle, just a small touch of reverb/echo for the guns (it is not there when turning off EAX) but not nearly as drastic as I've seen EAX tests on YouTube demonstrating the effect, I assume they're using MB3/SB Z and it's emulated/software FX thus giving it a more pronounced effect compared to Rx hardware EAX?

F.E.A.R. - Can tick "use HW mixing" and "EAX 2.0" in settings, but not EAX HD (EAX 3). Enabling HW mixing and EAX 2.0 results in "Failed to initialize sound driver "SndDrv.dll". Execution may terminate...". and no sound in-game.

Star Wars: Jedi Knight II - Works. Yay.

That thread seemed promising, but it did nothing for my case as some of the above games acted the same as before. Tried reinstalling the drivers multiple times and following exactly as stated without success. Tried uninstalling old Realtek drivers (that obviously wasn't enabled) as I thought they might be conflicting with some games - nope. Obviously what I hunger for is to get Chaos Theory EAX fully working, the other Splinter Cells would be sweet too, but good knowing that my card at least does something for some games.

I'm confused about the license thing though (Forgive my ignorance, pretty green at the whole subject atm. 😵 ). Bought the Rx new from a retailer days ago, tried both the official drivers and Daniel_K's drivers and it gives the same message in dsoundlog.txt with both, do I need a correct Audigy Rx version/license of ALchemy? There's no official ALchemy version available for download for the Rx on the Creative site and I assume you're good to go as long as you use the latest version.

Also, could the issue maybe be with Windows 10 and the rearrangements of folders/dll files and such? I think I read something about that...

So much for fully enjoying old games, heh.

If it's not too much hassle, i suggest doing XP dualboot. No Alchemy hassle and direct access to your card thanks to intact HAL layer. All the effects at full level present, too (which often is not the case with Alchemy on post-Vista systems).

Regarding IndirectSound vs. ALchemy: There is no reason to use IndirectSound if you have an actual SoundBlaster and ALchemy is working.

Regarding how to know whether EAX is working or not:

• If you want to hear what EAX sounds like I recommend RightMark 3D Sound. It will let you choose different software/hardware and EAX configurations, and change different properties to hear the difference. This would be a good way to hear what your sound card is actually doing so that you have a better idea of what to listen for in games.
• Another program with even more options is included in the EAX 2.0 SDK. It lets you change every possible parameter in EAX 2.0 and experiment to hear the difference. Unfortunately, the SDK is hard to find nowadays, but if you get it the program is located in Samples\DSound\bin\EAXPanel.exe.
• If you want to know whether a specific game uses EAX or not you can use IndirectSound to help figure this out (it won't help you know what to listen for, but it can at least let you know what the game is doing). Run a game using IndirectSound with EAX emulation enabled in the INI file and then look at the generated log file. Messages will be output when a game does something related to EAX. I haven't experimented with older cards, but my X-Fi has different modes for each of the different EAX versions, and a mode is determined by what version of EAX has a value set first (that's a slight simplification, but close enough). So, if a game sets any EAX value it means that EAX will be enabled, and EAX will use default settings and behavior from that first set value's version. (Unfortunately, no game will try to set a value higher than 2.0 using IndirectSound and so you won't be able to use this method to test for sure whether a game supports a higher level; if a game queries for support for a higher level, however, there's a reasonably good chance that it would use that higher level if it could.)

jonpol wrote:

Regarding IndirectSound vs. ALchemy: There is no reason to use IndirectSound if you have an actual SoundBlaster and ALchemy is working.

Are you sure? AFAIK EAX is nothing more than audio extension library, it just provides different effects not positional audio. For example in Thief 3 i still have positional audio if EAX is disabled or not using Creative (Alchemy) card, you just don't get different effects regarding the environment you are in.

IndirectAudio, AFAIK, enables positional audio for old games.

usernamed wrote:

jonpol wrote:

Regarding IndirectSound vs. ALchemy: There is no reason to use IndirectSound if you have an actual SoundBlaster and ALchemy is working.

Are you sure? AFAIK EAX is nothing more than audio extension library, it just provides different effects not positional audio. For example in Thief 3 i still have positional audio if EAX is disabled or not using Creative (Alchemy) card, you just don't get different effects regarding the environment you are in.

IndirectAudio, AFAIK, enables positional audio for old games.

You are correct that EAX is separate from positional audio, but the way that IndirectSound restores positional audio is the same thing that ALchemy does and the end result is the same (or, said another way, a working ALchemy and Sound Blaster installation will restore positional audio just like IndirectSound does, but additionally make EAX available). IndirectSound doesn't add any positional audio that old games don't already have; it just tricks them into using their existing positional audio code by pretending that hardware acceleration is available. If ALchemy is working it does the same thing, and real hardware acceleration actually is available (using the Sound Blaster).

I guess when I said that there was "no reason" to use IndirectSound instead of a Sound Blaster + ALchemy that may not have technically been accurate because there are a few situations I can think of where IndirectSound might be preferable. These situations are exceptional, though. For most people who have a Sound Blaster and ALchemy and are happy with them there isn't any reason to use IndirectSound instead (and those were the situations being discussed earlier in this thread).

jonpol wrote:

usernamed wrote:

jonpol wrote:

I guess when I said that there was "no reason" to use IndirectSound instead of a Sound Blaster + ALchemy

Maybe 1 reason exists: ct_oal.dll no more updated for old driver packages/old sound cards.

EAX keeps cutting out randomly on Splinter Cell.

It is working fine in Chaos Theory, KOTOR, and Halo CE.

Settings.

Buffers: 5
Duration: 25
Maximum Voice Count: 125

There is hidden ini option to disable HW 3D engine when is detected as supported:

1DisableNativeAL=true

Hi! First, thank you very much, MST, for the explanation about compiling. Sorry for delay : ) FYI i haven't been able to activate mb5 no matter what, it really requires modded realtek software, so screw that.
--
I have a question for X-fi MB3 users, but it's maybe a bit offtopic. Anyway:
Lately I've been driven mad by strange stutters in every game. Small hiccup happens when loading every new sound ingame, be that music track or weapon sound etc. First I thought that my hdd is the cause, but later I found that using X-Fi MB3 is what causing the stutters. Strange, i didn't notice this in the past, this started to happen only about month or two ago. Turning off virtual surround doesn't do much, I think it't Creative driver itself.
I think that latest Win 10 updates to sound subsystem did that, but I'm not sure.

So, maybe someone have the same happening or have some clues how to fix this? Because it doesnt look like MB3 will be ever updated in the future. Is it becoming incompatible with new WDDM or whatever?

Thanks in advance.

dongerdog wrote:

Sorry for the slow response, work n stuff. As for EAX capable games... […]
Show full quote

Sorry for the slow response, work n stuff. As for EAX capable games...

SC: Pandora Tomorrow - Can not check the EAX box in audio settings. Setting "EAX" to True and "EAX_Capable" to True in SplinterCell2User.ini have no effect, still greyed out box in audio settings and no difference in-game as far as I've heard. Same goes for the first game.

Hitman: Blood Money - Extremely subtle, just a small touch of reverb/echo for the guns (it is not there when turning off EAX) but not nearly as drastic as I've seen EAX tests on YouTube demonstrating the effect, I assume they're using MB3/SB Z and it's emulated/software FX thus giving it a more pronounced effect compared to Rx hardware EAX?

F.E.A.R. - Can tick "use HW mixing" and "EAX 2.0" in settings, but not EAX HD (EAX 3). Enabling HW mixing and EAX 2.0 results in "Failed to initialize sound driver "SndDrv.dll". Execution may terminate...". and no sound in-game.

Star Wars: Jedi Knight II - Works. Yay.

That thread seemed promising, but it did nothing for my case as some of the above games acted the same as before. Tried reinstalling the drivers multiple times and following exactly as stated without success. Tried uninstalling old Realtek drivers (that obviously wasn't enabled) as I thought they might be conflicting with some games - nope. Obviously what I hunger for is to get Chaos Theory EAX fully working, the other Splinter Cells would be sweet too, but good knowing that my card at least does something for some games.

I'm confused about the license thing though (Forgive my ignorance, pretty green at the whole subject atm. 😵 ). Bought the Rx new from a retailer days ago, tried both the official drivers and Daniel_K's drivers and it gives the same message in dsoundlog.txt with both, do I need a correct Audigy Rx version/license of ALchemy? There's no official ALchemy version available for download for the Rx on the Creative site and I assume you're good to go as long as you use the latest version.

Also, could the issue maybe be with Windows 10 and the rearrangements of folders/dll files and such? I think I read something about that...

So much for fully enjoying old games, heh.

Install Alchemy and use GenKGA, i think installer changes something in registry too for latest Windows 10 (i think Microsoft hardened Windows 10 and dsound dll is not loaded from app directory, like graphics drivers - they now have full, absolute path so you can't inject code using driver DLL name).

PS: Here: https://pastebin.com/BHnvBYWD - i think i fixed incorrect MAC hashing, it hashes now only Ethernet adapters (MIB_IF_TYPE_ETHERNET)

EDIT: Yes, Windows 10 is hardened, there is absolute paths in COM CLSID so when DirectSound is spawned by COM it will not load dsound.dll from local directory
All registry keys:
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{3901CC3F-84B5-4FA4-BA35-AA8172B8A09B}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{47D4D946-62E8-11cf-93BC-444553540000}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{B0210780-89CD-11d0-AF08-00A0C925CD16}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{B2F586D4-5558-49D1-A07B-3249DBBB33C2}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{E4BCAC13-7F99-4908-9A8E-74E3BF24B6E1}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{FEA4300C-7959-4147-B26A-2377B9E7A91D}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WOW6432Node\CLSID\{3901CC3F-84B5-4FA4-BA35-AA8172B8A09B}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WOW6432Node\CLSID\{47D4D946-62E8-11cf-93BC-444553540000}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WOW6432Node\CLSID\{B0210780-89CD-11d0-AF08-00A0C925CD16}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WOW6432Node\CLSID\{B2F586D4-5558-49D1-A07B-3249DBBB33C2}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WOW6432Node\CLSID\{E4BCAC13-7F99-4908-9A8E-74E3BF24B6E1}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WOW6432Node\CLSID\{FEA4300C-7959-4147-B26A-2377B9E7A91D}\InprocServer32
Alchemy changes only two:
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WOW6432Node\CLSID\{3901CC3F-84B5-4FA4-BA35-AA8172B8A09B}\InprocServer32
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\WOW6432Node\CLSID\{47D4D946-62E8-11cf-93BC-444553540000}\InprocServer32

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

I did a review with my onboard Realtek chip a while ago: Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 Review

There is FEAR recording with ALchemy.

Can be compared with this video: Creative ALchemy F.E.A.R. which is on a Sound Blaster Z.

Thanks for the video ! Just watched it. After literally years farting around with getting EAX back for old games I discovered this product. It had never been explained to me that it even exists and what it does. It's a full EAX X-Fi soundcard in software but Creative don't even seem to advertise it as such. Now I have Battlefield 2 back with full Ultra EAX/X-Fi sound. The X-Fi icon lights up and the game sounds AMAZING. So different with full virtual surround headphones.

I was expecting the Sound Blaster X-Fi MB5 software to have some kind of automatic solution for old EAX games so I did not expect to be using Alchemy. However this is a clean official copy of Alchemy that works with Realtek. No need to used any "fixed" copy of Alchemy or "modded" Realtek drivers as this is too much of a risk for me due to viruses and trojans.

I'm going to have to put a full guide on my blog about this area as it seems to be full of pitfalls and misunderstandings.

@Res1s7: What's the URL of your blog? The website-link on your profile at least is dead.

usernamed wrote:

If it's not too much hassle, i suggest doing XP dualboot. No Alchemy hassle and direct access to your card thanks to intact HAL layer. All the effects at full level present, too (which often is not the case with Alchemy on post-Vista systems).

Does ALchemy work better on Vista than on Windows 7?

villeneuve wrote:

@Res1s7: What's the URL of your blog? The website-link on your profile at least is dead.

That link is dead. I consolidated a lot of sites I run into a single website. Easier to maintain ... http://michaelzfreeman.org/ ... Article will hopefully appear sometime in the next few weeks.

usernamed wrote:

If it's not too much hassle, i suggest doing XP dualboot. No Alchemy hassle and direct access to your card thanks to intact HAL layer. All the effects at full level present, too (which often is not the case with Alchemy on post-Vista systems).

Does ALchemy work better on Vista than on Windows 7?

This is actually what I decided I wanted to do today after Far Cry 1 crashed in Windows 10 (rare but irritating). I have an Creative Labs Audigy (CA0106 ) which, although I think it has a cheap software version of EAX, should work in XP. I still would prefer running games in Windows 10 for things like AMD VSR (Virtual Super Resolution) which makes old games look great. But I want to finally hear for myself if there is any difference between Alchemy/MB3 EAX and native XP EAX. Also XP is also a good backup to have for games that refuse to work in Windows 10.

Thanks, I saved the link to your blog to check it out later.

My other question was about ALchemy on Vista vs 7, not 7/10 vs XP.

I don't think you can come to general conclusions though when you compare your CA0106 based Audigy on XP vs newer Windows versions since the CA0106 is already dependend on software-based EAX even on XP.

OT: So AMD VSR isn't available on Windows XP?

MST wrote:

usernamed wrote:

Is there any way to remove Alchemy device check requirement? To enable it without the MB3/5 bundle?

Yes

I installed the latest ALchemy (1.45.18), may I get some hint about how to bypass the device requirement check?
Sorry to ask the same question however I currently don't have permission to send PMs.
Thank you in advance.

Hello, I'm struggling to make EAX work with my onboard Realtek chipset/Logitech Z506 5.1 kit with Giants Citizen Kabuto game...I'm on Windows Seven x64, Realtek chipset is ALC892 on Asus Z99-A.

Most of the older games I tried works well with EAX (NOLF 2, Deux Ex, FEAR, Neverwinter Nights, American McGee's Alice) with any tools mentionned here (Alchemy mainly) but Giants Citizen Kabuto seems to be a tricky one...

So, until now, I tried :

-3DSoundBack
-IndirectSound
-ALchemy with any audio hardware hack
-command line tweak -snd3d to the shortcut, and most solutions suggested here :

https://www.gog.com/forum/giants_citizen_kabu … reverbocclusion

I have no luck till this day, this is starting to drive me crazy because this seems to be the only one not working, and I remember playing this game with a Soundblaster Audigy 5.1 back in early 2000's and had great immersive experience...

If anyone have some hints, please tell me !

Thanks 😀

-> Re: The Wrapper Collection Project

Johnny Rico wrote:

Hello, I'm struggling to make EAX work with my onboard Realtek chipset/Logitech Z506 5.1 kit with Giants Citizen Kabuto game...I […]
Show full quote

Hello, I'm struggling to make EAX work with my onboard Realtek chipset/Logitech Z506 5.1 kit with Giants Citizen Kabuto game...I'm on Windows Seven x64, Realtek chipset is ALC892 on Asus Z99-A.

Most of the older games I tried works well with EAX (NOLF 2, Deux Ex, FEAR, Neverwinter Nights, American McGee's Alice) with any tools mentionned here (Alchemy mainly) but Giants Citizen Kabuto seems to be a tricky one...

So, until now, I tried :

-3DSoundBack
-IndirectSound
-ALchemy with any audio hardware hack
-command line tweak -snd3d to the shortcut, and most solutions suggested here :

https://www.gog.com/forum/giants_citizen_kabu … reverbocclusion

I have no luck till this day, this is starting to drive me crazy because this seems to be the only one not working, and I remember playing this game with a Soundblaster Audigy 5.1 back in early 2000's and had great immersive experience...

If anyone have some hints, please tell me !

Thanks 😀

you might want to try DSOAL instead: https://www.moddb.com/addons/true-3d-sound-fo … -hrtf-mod-v131a

svfn wrote:

Johnny Rico wrote:

Hello, I'm struggling to make EAX work with my onboard Realtek chipset/Logitech Z506 5.1 kit with Giants Citizen Kabuto game...I […]
Show full quote

Hello, I'm struggling to make EAX work with my onboard Realtek chipset/Logitech Z506 5.1 kit with Giants Citizen Kabuto game...I'm on Windows Seven x64, Realtek chipset is ALC892 on Asus Z99-A.

(...)

If anyone have some hints, please tell me !

Thanks 😀

you might want to try DSOAL instead: https://www.moddb.com/addons/true-3d-sound-fo … -hrtf-mod-v131a

Thanks for the reply, but I tried everything, including DSOAL and registry tweakings (InprocServer32 keys)... 😢

i just tried with GOG's version after patching with 1.497 Beta, and unzipping the EAX files to the folder, add -snd3d, use either DSOAL or ALchemy and both worked.

have you tried copying the EAX files (in that mega link) to your installation folder already?
https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Giants:_Citizen … _Hardware_sound