Oh precious, no. The modem connects directly to the wall jack. And most phone services these days use VOIP so they won't support a dial-up modem.

How do I get the voip thing then

Your Internet Service Provider needs to support a lan-line
AT&T no longer supports lan-lines in my area ( Silicon Valley )
But Comcast/Xfinity still supports lan-lines.

I recently purchased an HP All-in-one printer with Fax/copy/scan functions but recently we cancelled our lan-line
And cable TV. Now we Stream everything.
But My Printer has an IP address and still receives updates from HP so I think it can still send a fax over IP.
I have not looked into it.

But anyways lan-lines are going away because personal cell phones with passwords are more secure.

It’s about Security today.

Personal individual meals
Pizza by the Slice
$5 individual happy meals
Personal everything.
Family size is going away.
No more sharing with the family or others. It’s not Secure.

You were trolled.

WinModems are considered some of the worst pieces of hardware ever as they ate the CPU to work (BAD FOR VIDEOGAMES), and dial-up ISPs are effectively dead by now. I hope this serves as a lesson to do basic research on whatever components you read about on a forum. There are some here just to hype things up and mislead (i.e. 3dfx cards, dc stans on powervr, first gen pentiums, dfi boards, etc)

jmarsh wrote on 2024-08-13, 14:23:

Oh precious, no. The modem connects directly to the wall jack. And most phone services these days use VOIP so they won't support a dial-up modem.

Indeed, that is the essence if it .

@OP
The following link provides a more detailed explanation of why it is not feasible to use a cell phone for dial-up Internet: https://superuser.com/questions/748154/use-a- … a-dial-up-modem (seemed accurate at a cursory glance).

That being said, if you want to experience dial-up Internet in 2024, you have at least 2 potential options :

Option 1: the old fashioned way
a) get a landline that supports analogue modem modulation schemes (i.e. that does not use lossy compression algorithms that are incompatible with such modulation schemes). This means using a legacy landline or something like a phone line from a cable modem service provider that implements Packetcable over DOCSIS (where the line card is essentially in the modem) and does not use incompatible compression schemes (my current ISP/telco still offers such a service). Typical VOIP services will almost certainly not work due to compression algorithms (though there may exist exceptions). This type of service may not be available in your area anymore and/or might be expensive. One of the few business use cases for such a service in many areas is the use of fax machines, POS terminals and other specialized (older) equipment (though less and less so as there are usually more modern and cheaper options available).

b)find an Internet service provider that still offer dial-up Internet service as an option and subscribe to their service.

Option 2: the DIY "simulate a POTS landline and and a dial-up ISP" way

This essentially implies connecting two dial-up modems together over a simulated phone line with one modem being connected an Internet connected computer (type of connection does not matter) running appropriate software and with the other modem being the one in your retro computer. I'm passing over many essential details, but others have done this and documented it.

If you absolutely want to use an analogue modem (PCI winmodem or otherwise), these are essentially your options).

If you would settle for simulating the experience of using a slow serial connection to access the Internet using Windows 9x PPP/SLIP functionality, there are simpler ways to do it.

What are the simpler ways to do dial up type stuff?

leileilol wrote on 2024-08-13, 15:04:

You were trolled.

WinModems are considered some of the worst pieces of hardware ever as they ate the CPU to work (BAD FOR VIDEOGAMES), and dial-up ISPs are effectively dead by now. I hope this serves as a lesson to do basic research on whatever components you read about on a forum. There are some here just to hype things up and mislead (i.e. 3dfx cards, dc stans on powervr, first gen pentiums, dfi boards, etc)

I get that OP might want to experience dial-up to some degree. There are ways to do that or simulate it to varying degrees. It's not my thing, but I'm not judging

That said, I agree that wanting to use a winmodem specifically is a odd.

@OP
Winmodems came about as a cost cutting measure to make modem simpler and cheaper. Initially, the controller and serial interface were removed (controllerless modem) and implemented in software (increasing CPU load) then, in many even cheaper implementations, the DSP was removed (soft modem) as well (increasing CPU load even more). Later generation winmodems were essentially a board with a single chip DAC/ADC, phone interface, bus interface combo (with a relay in the board as well).

This started taking place at a time when the CPU load this caused was prejudicial. Disconnections during online gaming or even loading more demanding web pages were a common issue. As CPU speed increased and software implementions improved, these issues became much less common.

However, hardware modems never disappeared from the market, they just became more niche and were considered higher end. They actually exist to this day. Ironically, with component costs being low, single chip (or very low component ) hardware modems are probably cheaper than anything software based as they can be inplemented as a class compliant USB serial interface that uses OS bundled drivers, so no driver or custom software is required. AFAICR, I have a 20$ USB fax modem that works that way under Windows 10 and Linux. Maybe I should try it under Windows 98.

OK I'll admit it
I have some honor...
I got trolled and told that winmodems were a good idea in another thread. I've given up on that idea now. Now I just want to know how to get a normal dial up modem working (not a winmodem) external or internal

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-08-13, 15:21:

What are the simpler ways to do dial up type stuff?

That is too vague to answer. The potential complexity of options will depend on what you actually want to do.

What do you want to experience:

a) actually using a physacal dial-up modem for an Internet connection (winmodem or otherwise) ?
b) using dial-up on a retro system ?
c) using dial-up on a modern system ?
d) slowing an Internet connection to dial-up level to get a feel for the experience ?
e) using the dial-up software components in Windows 9x without actually using a phone line or modem ?

Options d) and e) are probably the simplest as they require the least hardware.

I'm interested in option b
Using a physical dial up modem on an old windows 98 pc

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-08-13, 15:46:

I'm interested in option b
Using a physical dial up modem on an old windows 98 pc

Then you have essentially 2 options, as outlined in Re: Winmodem? IN 2024!

dionb suggests a way of implementing the second option this with some old PBX hardware in the other thread.

Cool I'll have to look into this stuff and learn about it some more
In the meantime is there an easier way to connect an old pc to the interwebs? What would I need?

So, short answer, it is possible, although it's a pretty big pain in the ass these days as you might expect.

Over VoIP, you can indeed make a modem work, with very specific settings on the ATA (Linksys PAP2, or similar, for example) - disabling for instance any kind of compression algorithms on the audio stream.
For this experiment I used voip.ms as my provider, a Linksys PAP2T and a US Robotics 33.6K external modem.

If you are able to truly get a POTS landline, it will be significantly easier to accomplish what you're after (Comcast/Xfinity as suggested is not - that is VoIP; and it most likely will not work).

Some notes from when I had this working..

https://www.voipmechanic.com/voip-fax-settings-linksys.htm
https://www.voip-info.org/linksys-pap2t/
https://toao.net/VoIP/linksys-ata-configuration.html

I'm forcing G711u (Preferred codec = G711u; Use Pref Codec Only = yes)

I'm also disabling all of the echo/silence cancellation or adaptation features. Jitter level will be something I need to play with I figure, but for now it is set "very high". Jitter buffer adjustment is also disabled.

On the SIP tab, I changed RTP Packet size to 0.020.

Once you get everything configured, you can give https://dialup.world/ a shot. It's a small ISP set up for giggles.

Is this all worth it in the end? Maaaaaaybe? You might actually have more fun cruising the current BBS scene from a retro PC. Cue up a dialup handshake sample from YouTube or elsewhere to help set the mood.

(that all aside, I can absolutely confirm all that was said about WinModems and how garbage they are/were. They were all about cost cutting. Get the "good" stuff if you're really going to go down this specific rabbit hole..)

Cool. What are some pots providers?

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-08-13, 16:12:

Cool I'll have to look into this stuff and learn about it some more
In the meantime is there an easier way to connect an old pc to the interwebs? What would I need?

There are many conflicting ideas on how or even _whether_ you should do this. My opinion is that Windows 98 for example is no longer a target, AND if you're storing anything of importance on a Windows 98 PC, that's really something I'd love to understand better. (maybe you're also a real WordStar aficionado and do all your writing on that? I don't know)

Segment or isolate your retro PCs via a VLAN, firewall, etc if you are worried about cross contamination of traffic (or just NetBEUI bouncing around for instance..)

ProtoWeb is a service I'm familiar with, which uses a proxy-based approach to serve you previous/archived/old versions of websites. It's a time capsule and I personally really enjoy it.

Separately, WebOne is a proxy that aids retro machines by downgrading SSL/TLS and/or converting images and videos to formats that older browsers can understand. It's a brilliant concept but comes with some obvious risks. We abandoned these older technologies in most cases for good reason, after all.

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-08-13, 16:29:

Cool. What are some pots providers?

I'm making assumptions here but if you're indeed in the US, most of that infrastructure is gone.
Now, totally realizing that I am on vogons right now, this dial-up exercise may be one of exceptional frustration and very limited upside.

If your goal is to perhaps (re-)live the "excellence" of dial-up speeds and the web which existed during that time - ProtoWeb has a modem speed simulator as one of its proxy options. Use that.
If your goal is just to make it work - well, you may be satisfied by "The Serial Port" on YouTube. They do a dial-up ISP series which is excellent in my opinion.
If you really really insist - yeah, I suggest the VoIP/ATA route. At least then you can tear it all down with minimal cost/time outlay, when you are satisfied with it.
At that point, get a good NIC for your Windows 98 PC and just use your broadband connection.

Renamed topic subject to match forum standards

In theory, home VoIP lines offered by major telecoms are meant to support up to class II fax still, which is about 9,600 bps IIRC. Also cell phones are meant to support slow fax modes also when everything is working optimally. However, some cell providers are reported as detecting fax/modem activity and charging it at data rates.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-08-13, 16:52:

In theory, home VoIP lines offered by major telecoms are meant to support up to class II fax still, which is about 9,600 bps IIRC. Also cell phones are meant to support slow fax modes also when everything is working optimally. However, some cell providers are reported as detecting fax/modem activity and charging it at data rates.

I suspect that that if a major telecom VOIP line supports faxes, it will likely also support higher efficiency modulations (v.34 and v.90) because, in all likelihood, there will be no lossy compression implemented between the ADC/DAC in the modem/ATA/MTA and the switch at the telephone switch at the major telecom. 64kbps of consumed bandwidth on the high speed DSL, DOCSIS or Fiber link between customer-premises equipment provided by the same telco is negligible.

So called "over the top" VOIP providers that actually go through the Internet will likely implement lossy compression as a cost saving measure (Internet bandwidth adds up for those providers), though I suspect that some of them likely offer fax and/or modem friendly options at an additional cost.

As for charging fax/modem activity at data rates, that was probably a thing in the Circuit Switched Data days (is CSD even still implementable in 3G and newer networks?). I doubt that could still apply anyway as the cost would be ridiculously low for even a 56k modem's bandwidth.

I was never an expert in this and what knowledge I do have on this is dated, so don't take anything I've written above as absolute cannon.