VOGONS


First post, by aazard

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EDIT/UPDATE: Added people's suggestions to OP . SEE BOTTOM OF THIS POST FOR NEWEST TEST VERSION
PS: I am "Aazard", or just Jeff in meat space. You may know me from KSP "Human Stuff" mod & "DFM Floppy Office/Tiny USB Office 2021: Enhanced for XP" both which I authored.

///

My little project (1 of countless) is: "Easy XT Preinstallation Environment" (EXTPE), that can support even a toaster (a slow toaster at that), that is "your grandmother can do it" simple/easy (hence point & click / easy menu / GUI, if possible).

My main concern is.... "target media" ... "available space" ... as I'm 99% sure I need to stay inside 720kb to allow "nearly all" systems to use it (what "PC Compatible" isnt compatible with 720kb 3.5"? floppies, if any) and i'm 99.99% sure DMF format does not exist for 720kb/1.2mb floppies (so no "DMF 840kb" 720kb floppies).

This list may get "big", bigger than target media for sure, so careful tool selection and pruning may be required. I will post a GitHub link.
It may require separate "Prep" and "Test" disks (unsure, add your thoughts in comments).

Note: Any "not open source/freely available" software may need to substituted with ones that are for distribution reasons. I get some of it is 40 years old, but rules are rules
Note 2: ALL Linux is i386 (386sx+ needed) at the kernel level. I have never seen a GUI-able/"easy to use" 16bit Unix/Etc that runs on an 8088 to 80286

///

I see many "common" DOS tools require 386+ (or at least 286 in some cases). I'm normally good at finding stuff/info, but 8088 class software left me with few results or merely hits of online conversations of assumptions & memories.

I know of: (WORKS ON 8088 LIST)

  • BOOTMGR (multi-BOOT ManaGeR) — Small multi-OS boot manager with low resource requirements. 6kb
  • MS-DOS 6.22 - PC-DOS 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134 is vastly newer(/better?) for pure 16bit (so I read)
  • FreeDOS - Website& download options clearly start 8088/8086 to 80286 compatibility (Likley supports the newest feature sets,.. if having no care for file sizes....)
  • DR-DOS 7.03 - Last version of DR-DOS, Supports LFN's but not LBA or FAT32. Fairly small BUT HIGHEST MEMORY USAGE with approximately 164 KB of 640kb used in a minimal boot floppy configuration
  • PC-DOS 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134 - (FAT32, LFN, LBA, & FDISK32/FORMAT32) *Correction: No LFN support in PC-DOS 7.0/2000 (only SFN8+3), but yes in 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134 (says CHAT GTP)
  • ST-DOS & lEEt/OS -Custom DOS & TEXT/GUI OS (interesting). Required to be used together (precluding other DOS's?), but runs on 8088
  • DN OSP — DOS Navigator derivative with 16- and 32-bit versions, Win9x/NT+ LFN support (LFN in protected mode & up ONLY, Real Mode SFN 8+3), other enhancements.
  • PC Valet Shell — Small file manager with built-in file viewer, hex editor, and more. Only 26K (or 17K unpacked and recompressed with UPX), about 11K more if you use the hex editor and other add ons
  • DC (DOS Controller) — Fast file manager for DOS, Norton Commander clone. 50kb
  • Volkov Commander 4.99.08a - Clone of Norton Commander written in assembly, under 100kb has LFN support
  • New Deal Office 2000 (2024 Kernel Update) - "GUI for DOS" with real mode & networking (etc.)
  • Windows 3.1 build 034f - "GUI for DOS" with real mode ("Dogs breakfast", imho, side by side with NDO2000)
  • Costa GUI - Runs on 8088 + 200kb conventional ram & EGA (supports it on VGA) with 64kb Vram, DOS 4.0+ (Has MOUSE.COM, very small & MODULAR, as little as 216kb)
  • Ranish Partition Manager - v2.37 works on 8088/8086 >> 57kb!
  • Norton Utilities 6.0 - Will run on a 8088
  • PC Tools - Up to v9
  • Back-It 4.0 - Backup utility, works on 8088, freeware/OEM
  • Norton Backup 2.0 - Backup utility, works on 8088 (is this freeware?)
  • SYNC - copy/backup/restore only changed files within a directory tree.
  • DDLINK - Transfer files from one system to another via Serial, Parallel or Network.
  • FDIR (Fullscreen DIRectory) lets you enter commands into a directory listing to operate on files.
  • FreeFDISK - Improved FDISK with FAT32 support - VASTLY more stable than IBM PC-DOS's FAT32 (so I read)
  • FDNET - freedos networking (universal?)
  • NCSA Telnet 2..30.8 - "Outstanding Telnet terminal and ftp client. DOS FTP Application" >> mTCP is better/newer, includes SPDTEST.EXE?
  • HWiNFO16 - found on vogons
  • Landmark Service Diagnostics V2.13.18 - It has separate 8088, 286, 386 and 486 diagnostic disk images included (also at Winworld), requires DOS 2.1 or higher...
  • PC Magazine Labs Benchmarks - v5.5 (1990). Says "The Instruction Mix benchmark test times a series of tasks specific to the 8088, 80286, or 80386 chip." At WinworldPC Incorrectly labeled V1.1
  • CheckIt/CheckIT Pro - All DOS versions run on 8088/8086
  • DOSBench V0.1 - A little benchmark program I wrote by myself in Turbo Pascal 7. I wrote it to create a benchmark that would run on 8086/8088 & 286 systems 18kb - Dev https://thandor.net/benchmark/36

& maybe: Ranish Partition Manager, but I'm unsure, I had ALOT of issues locating info about system requirements for it - yes see above

///

Should I use: Anyone have other "tiny" suggestions?
- Why not use CDROM.SYS (4 KB) - (Disk size taken paramount, nothing fancy needed, only basic CD/Disk access and functional mouse)

- CDROM (4kb) + SHSUCDX (7.8kb) + CTMOUSE 1.9.1 (5.6kb)?
or
- VIDE-CDD (6.38kb) + SHSUCDX (7.8kb) + CTMOUSE 1.9.1 (5.6kb)?
NOTE: "Only CDROM.SYS and VIDE-CDD.SYS work on a 286" statement from: http://www.win3x.org/win3board/viewtopic.php?t=295&view=min
or
- UIDE (7.5kb) + SHSUCDX (7.8kb) + CTMOUSE 1.9.1 (5.6kb)? "uide.sys is a cd/dvd driver AND disk cache (no need to load smartdrive)". "Only CDROM.SYS and VIDE-CDD.SYS work on a 286"
or
- XHDD (4.9kb) + XDVD2 (3.5kb)+ CTMOUSE 1.9.1 (5.6kb) ? < approx. 11kb. XDVD2 needs 80386+ PC system (XHDD requires an 80486+).

LOOKING FOR CONFIRMATION THIS CAN BE DONE ON 8088: I couldn't locate much for 8088's that do:

  • MINIMAL sized/ram usage: CD, Network, Extended Memory & Etc. (useful to an 8088 to 80286 "Preinstallation Environment") device drivers (example: SHSUCDX)
  • Ideal usable DOS "brand/version" to make minimal, functional "base bootable floppy/image" MS-DOS 6.22, PC-DOS 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134, DR-DOS 7.03 & FreeDOS 1.3
  • ADDING LFN Support to PC-DOS 7.1 Rev 0 BLD134 or MS-DOS 6.22 (can it be "borrowed" from FreeDOS??)
    Summary of DOS LFN Support on 8088 - Supports LFN on 8088 (with potential limitations):
    • DR-DOS 7.03: Can support LFN, but may require specific configurations and may not perform optimally on an 8088 system.
    • IBM PC-DOS 7.1: Supports LFN, but using this on an 8088 might face performance constraints.
    • FreeDOS 1.3: Supports LFN, but practical usage on an 8088 system might be challenging.
    • MS-DOS 6.22 has 3rd party drivers for LBA (like WD's)
  • MAYBE DOS versions of Dr Hardware (up to 9e/9d?) UNSURE
  • Advanced Backups - Found some
  • Recovery - Found some
  • Drive imaging/Restoration - Found some
  • Advanced Disk/Partition Management - Found some

If you know of any or have used a "tool" program on an 8088 system, I would be interested to know about them.
If this topic exists, could you kindly direct me there?

I hope to have some "real software tools" for systems of this era for a small project I am starting.

Thank You, Kindly
Aazard

//////
//////

EXTPE, Alpha.01 - test
Please test me

If you understand UPX compression better than I do, please inform me of why I am unable to UPX any of these under my win10 workstation's UPX GUI?

- 720kb image, bootable (on XT+), Assumes its in "A:\" drive by default
- Includes: Base PC-DOS7.1 Rev 0 boot disk + himem.sys, cdrom.sys, shcdx86.com & ctm21b4.exe (all loaded by default) >> optical drive will default to "D:\OPTICAL"
- Apps: Costa GUI, PC Valet File Manager, ToolWorks Pro Backup & Randish Partition Manager
- 83.9kb free space remaining (possibly 53.6kb more can be saved)
- Room left for?: fdisk32, format, format32, chkdsk ... and perhaps "e" (PC-DOS's editor) ... a network driver??

Auto launches Costa GUI, with exit to DOS prompt option.
dos-backups-v0-pekv1ai9swnd1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=094c0b36aed97cffd3581bf4ec5f97d2e1a1fd37

If I take Costa GUI down to a single icon option (the "DOS-prompt" one), image can save an additional 1.6kb
If Costa can "see" Cute Mouse (and not its own MOUSE.COM), image can save an additional 32kb

If PC Velet is stripped to just file manager (remove valet.oo1/valet.002, the hex editor & other add ons) image can save an additional 11kb
If PC Valet's main "valet.exe" can be UPX compressed, image can save an additional 9kb

Attachments

  • Filename
    EXTPE_PCDOS71.zip
    File size
    399.31 KiB
    Downloads
    17 downloads
    File comment
    EXTPE, Alpha.01 - test
    File license
    Public domain
Last edited by aazard on 2024-09-10, 05:28. Edited 114 times in total.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 1 of 81, by Grzyb

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aazard wrote on 2024-08-23, 22:30:

[*]NCSA Telnet 2..30.8 - "Outstanding Telnet terminal and ftp client. DOS FTP Application"

Since mTCP has appeared, there's probably no need for old TCP/IP stuff.

Kiełbasa smakuje najlepiej, gdy przysmażysz ją laserem!

Reply 2 of 81, by Horun

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Norton Utilities 6.0 will run on a 8088 and has some disk utils.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 4 of 81, by aazard

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Grzyb wrote on 2024-08-24, 01:23:
aazard wrote on 2024-08-23, 22:30:

[*]NCSA Telnet 2..30.8 - "Outstanding Telnet terminal and ftp client. DOS FTP Application"

Since mTCP has appeared, there's probably no need for old TCP/IP stuff.

humm, please go on..... this works on an 8088?

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 5 of 81, by aazard

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douglar wrote on 2024-08-24, 13:12:

What about checkit?

REMOVED

Nice find, going on final list

Last edited by DosFreak on 2024-08-25, 01:20. Edited 1 time in total.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 6 of 81, by aazard

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Horun wrote on 2024-08-24, 02:09:

Norton Utilities 6.0 will run on a 8088 and has some disk utils.

1991 8088 software, wow unexpected

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 8 of 81, by aazard

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PARKE wrote on 2024-08-24, 18:06:

Norton had one important competitor: PC Tools
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Tools_(software)
The early versions were ok.

REMOVED

Version 9 (last version), runs on an 8088! Nice

Last edited by DosFreak on 2024-08-25, 01:21. Edited 1 time in total.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 9 of 81, by Grzyb

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aazard wrote on 2024-08-24, 14:40:
Grzyb wrote on 2024-08-24, 01:23:
aazard wrote on 2024-08-23, 22:30:

[*]NCSA Telnet 2..30.8 - "Outstanding Telnet terminal and ftp client. DOS FTP Application"

Since mTCP has appeared, there's probably no need for old TCP/IP stuff.

humm, please go on..... this works on an 8088?

Yes, and it's probably the fastest TCP/IP implementation for DOS:
http://www.brutman.com/mTCP/

Kiełbasa smakuje najlepiej, gdy przysmażysz ją laserem!

Reply 10 of 81, by Horun

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PC Magazine Labs Benchmarks v4.01 (1986) should run on an XT but have not tested.
v4.01: https://thisoldtech.ca/download-dos-pc-magazi … mark-from-1986/
Also v5.5 (1990). Release 5.5 says "The Instruction Mix benchmark test times a series of tasks specific to the 8088, 80286, or 80386 chip."
It is at WinworldPC but they labeled it as V1.1: https://winworldpc.com/product/pc-magazine-labs-per/1x
So maybe it will run on a XT? They don't list minimum system requires....

added: Landmark Service Diagnostics V2.13.18. It has separate 8088, 286, 386 and 486 diagnostic disk images included (also at Win worl), requires DOS 2.1 or higher...

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 11 of 81, by aazard

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Ranish Partition Manager, improved

Remade from "opened sourced" source, and improved, if I read Github correctly
Mentions "real mode" and handling "protected mode switch by itself"....
Not sure if this is requiring a 8088/6 or 8188/6 (V20/V30) or full 80286

With respect to v2.44, this version adds: […]
Show full quote

With respect to v2.44, this version adds:

the ability to save and restore the entire MBR to file, which was unimplemented in the original code (the corresponding keyboard shortcuts returned a "not implemented" error);
the ability to save and restore the CMOS data (the information stored in the real time clock memory). This only covers the first 128 bytes of such data;
command line versions of the operations above.
CMOS save/restore was meant as a simple ways to backup the current BIOS configuration before experimenting with settings or changing the battery. However, while it works well with some BIOSes, it totally fails with others. It is import to test it on a system-by-system basis before relying on it to produce usable backups.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 12 of 81, by Horun

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First readable text when hexed is "Need 80386 or better CPU", from Part.exe starting at 00000CB0h

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 13 of 81, by aazard

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Humm, thank you, I wonder if this is true of original?

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 14 of 81, by PARKE

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aazard wrote on 2024-08-24, 18:13:
PARKE wrote on 2024-08-24, 18:06:

Norton had one important competitor: PC Tools
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Tools_(software)
The early versions were ok.

REMOVED

Version 9 (last version), runs on an 8088! Nice

The later versions had a terrible reputation for bugs. I think I remember that they were ok up to version 6.

Reply 15 of 81, by aazard

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This is freely distributed by dev it appears, see: https://ranish.sourceforge.net/

Horun wrote on 2024-08-25, 04:06:

First readable text when hexed is "Need 80386 or better CPU", from Part.exe starting at 00000CB0h

2002-06-09: v2.44beta. Earlier versions are still available, including 2.40 stable (2001-02-08), and 2.37 (1998-09-15), runs on 8086.

v2.37: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ranish/par … anager-2.37.zip
32312027950_2f279b7322_z.jpg
FAT32! Wizard!
Ranish-Partition-Manager_2.png

Last edited by aazard on 2024-08-28, 04:14. Edited 3 times in total.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 16 of 81, by aazard

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File Manager with many features: works on 8088/8086

DN OSP — DOS Navigator derivative with 16- and 32-bit versions, Win9x/NT+ LFN support, other enhancements.
From: https://www.bttr-software.de/freesoft/fileman2.htm#lfnsupp (combined info into single entry)

A great (maybe the best) DOS-only file manager that integrates a v. good editor, spreadsheet, *.dbf viewer, phone book / dialer, terminal, cd player.
This successor to the original 16-bit DOS Navigator has a number of added features, in both the real mode and the protected mode versions (the protected mode version is the one with LFN support).

  • Can be run in Russian or English.
  • Fast, dual-panel interface, pull-down menus, drag and drop move / copy / delete capabilities (w/ option to display a MAC-like trashcan!)
  • Virtual File System capabilities; ability to open *multiple* dual panel directory windows. Panels are resizable.
  • Collapsible and expandable directory tree display.
  • Powerful directory compare options.
  • Archives displayed as directories; support for 17 archive formats.
  • Other interesting features: Disk "reanimator", disk format, disk editor, unpack diskette images, uuen/decode, file split, batch creation, custom video mode options... much more.
    Authors: Max Vasilyev, Evgeny Zvyagintzev et al. / DOS Navigator Open Source Project, Russia (2006).

dnosp.png

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 17 of 81, by DaveDDS

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I have a LOT of various tools for DOS.
Check out my website listed below to see some of it.

Based on what you're looking for, couple things that might be on interest:
SYNC - copy/backup/restore only changed files within a directory tree.
DDLINK - Transfer files from one system to another via Serial, Parallel or Network.
FDIR (Fullscreen DIRectory) lets you enter commands into a directory listing to operate on files.

There's LOTS more (I've been in this industry since the 70s), and I've recently begun a "retirement
project" to publish all of it's source code (also on my site)

Since I write almost all of my "stuff" for the PC with a version of own C compiler which generates
8086(88) code, almost all of it will run an 8086(88) systems.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 18 of 81, by aazard

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DaveDDS wrote on 2024-08-28, 02:28:
I have a LOT of various tools for DOS. Check out my website listed below to see some of it. […]
Show full quote

I have a LOT of various tools for DOS.
Check out my website listed below to see some of it.

Based on what you're looking for, couple things that might be on interest:
SYNC - copy/backup/restore only changed files within a directory tree.
DDLINK - Transfer files from one system to another via Serial, Parallel or Network.
FDIR (Fullscreen DIRectory) lets you enter commands into a directory listing to operate on files.

There's LOTS more (I've been in this industry since the 70s), and I've recently begun a "retirement
project" to publish all of it's source code (also on my site)

Since I write almost all of my "stuff" for the PC with a version of own C compiler which generates
8086(88) code, almost all of it will run an 8086(88) systems.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Beyond fantastic, if you have a complete list, I am happy to add it.

My little project (1 of countless) is: "Easy XT Preinstallation Environment" (EXTPE), that can support even a toaster (a slow toaster at that), that is "your grandmother can do it" simple/easy (hence point & click / easy menu / GUI, if possible)

Last edited by aazard on 2024-08-28, 03:15. Edited 1 time in total.

Aazard -
Mono Planar Mortal & Unascended Master
Retro Enthusiast & L3 Trouble Shooter
.... Getting old

Reply 19 of 81, by Horun

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aazard wrote on 2024-08-28, 01:25:
This is freely distributed by dev it appears, see: https://ranish.sourceforge.net/ […]
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This is freely distributed by dev it appears, see: https://ranish.sourceforge.net/

Horun wrote on 2024-08-25, 04:06:

First readable text when hexed is "Need 80386 or better CPU", from Part.exe starting at 00000CB0h

2002-06-09: v2.44beta. Earlier versions are still available, including 2.40 stable (2001-02-08), and 2.37 (1998-09-15), runs on 8086.

v2.37: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ranish/par … anager-2.37.zip
32312027950_2f279b7322_z.jpg

That is great ! I have the original Ranish 2.37.12 (from 1998) from Ranish old website (including Czech, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Russian, Spanish, Swedish versions IIRC) in my archives.
If it does run on 8086 that would be great ! Appears that soundforge link is source code. Let me go find my collection....will post it.

Last edited by Horun on 2024-08-28, 03:21. Edited 1 time in total.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun