You can start with running EMM386.EXE with RAM parameter, as well as DOS=HIGH,UMB, and see how much upper memory you can initially access.

If that's not enough, you can additionally use I=B000-B7FF for an additional 32KB of upper memory. If that's also not enough, and you don't have a need for EMS, then replace RAM with NOEMS for the most amount of upper memory you can get.

However, since you use Windows 3.11, be noted that you cannot use I=B000-B7FF if you use another video driver than "VGA". Also, there's a good chance that you have checked the option about Windows in MEMMAKER, which enables GEMMIS. It allows EMM386 to cooperate with Windows at the expense of 32KB of usable upper memory.

Since the screenshots appear to be the state before you used MEMMAKER, I'm not sure what exactly you've checked when running it...

I am running Windows 3.11 and also need EMS

You're just not going to be able to have two copies of MSCDEX (because of the two CD-ROM drives), SMARTDRV, and 34KB of sound card drivers loaded *plus* EMS (which costs you 64K in UMBs) and have any reasonable amount of free conventional memory. Sorry.

Could you possibly dump the Creative drivers and just initialize the card with something like UNISOUND (right here on the forum) instead? Which costs you nothing in memory since it's not a TSR. I guess it depends if you're running some game that actually needs those drivers.
Can you give up SHSUCDHD? Or use a boot disk or menu setup when you need that and EMS?

I can't see EMM386 being used at all - it's no surprise that the upper memory isn't being used - and so MEMMAKER has nothing to work with.

There's a lot there that is probably not needed, but that's already been mentioned above.

As they said, unless you're prepared to compromise, there's nothing we can do.

How about QEMM 7/8/9 or Helix? Helix has a small MSCDEX. Might be ideal for multiple instances, multiple CD-ROM drives?
Re: Can I skip Smartdrive?

egbertjan wrote on 2024-10-18, 01:11:

I am running Windows 3.11 and also need EMS

This is the worst case scenario for managing upper memory with just a single set of configuration. You're only to be able to use at most 30KB if nothing else (option ROMs and such) is taking up upper memory blocks.

You really should consider setting up a boot menu with a separate config to run Windows 3.11. Otherwise, there's little you can do to free more conventional memory. It's just not possible.

And your mileage may vary when using third-party memory managers like QEMM, although they're likely to work on old systems such as yours.

Personally, i'd look at the memory map with nothing loaded except straight dos (no managers, no drivers), take note of what option roms are present, then manually configure it.

SOME option roms can be successfully unmapped / mapped over with emm386, because of how it does things. Memmaker will NEVER attempt that.

wierd_w wrote on 2024-10-18, 03:46:

Personally, i'd look at the memory map with nothing loaded except straight dos (no managers, no drivers), take note of what option roms are present, then manually configure it.

SOME option roms can be successfully unmapped / mapped over with emm386, because of how it does things. Memmaker will NEVER attempt that.

That's because MemMaker was built upon the Customize memory optimizer in Helix Netroom 3.
It's not being designed for EMM386 in first place.

Here's a video that shows the similarities of MemMaker and Netroom 3.
The dialogs are almost 1:1 the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF83dbkuunA

Edited.

As a "Throw it at the wall, and see if it sticks", try these.

CONFIG.SYS wrote:

SWITCHES=/F DOS=HIGH,UMB FCBS=1,0 BUFFERS=15,0 STACKS=9,256 FILES=40 COUNTRY=031,850,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS LASTDRIVE=Z DEVICE=C:\WI […]
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SWITCHES=/F
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FCBS=1,0
BUFFERS=15,0
STACKS=9,256
FILES=40
COUNTRY=031,850,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN NOTR
DEVICEHIGH=C:\SB16\DRV\CTSB16.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:5 D:1 H:5

REM CTMMSYS.SYS behaves strangely if loaded high, if I remember correctly.
DEVICE=C:\SB16\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS

DEVICEHIGH=C:\SB16\DRV\CSP.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220
DEVICEHIGH=D:\DRIVERS\XDRIVERS\XDVD2.SYS /D:SAMSUNG
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS

AUTOEXEC.BAT wrote:

@ECHO OFF PROMPT $P$G PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS;D:\TOOLS\BAT LH MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE((850)C:\DOS\EGA.CPI) LH MODE CON CODEPAGE […]
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@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS;D:\TOOLS\BAT
LH MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE((850)C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
LH MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
SET SOUND=C:\SB16
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P30 E620 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
SET MOUSE=C:\MOUSE

REM Diagnose needs to not be loaded high, if I remember correctly. Strange things happen if you do.
C:\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
LH C:\SB16\AWEUTIL /S
LH C:\SB16\SB16SET /P /Q
LH D:\TOOLS\DOSKEY.EXE /INSERT
LH D:\TOOLS\SHSUCDHD.EXE /F:F:\FB.ISO /F:F:\HS.ISO /F:F:\ST2.ISO
LH C:\WINDOWS\MSCDEX.EXE /S /D:SAMSUNG /D:SHSU-CDH /E
LH S3REFRSH 9240

REM "Net Start" cannot be loaded high, if I remember correctly. Sadly 🙁
C:\WINDOWS\NET START

MENU.BAT

I took the liberty of reorganizing them for cleanliness/neatness.

wierd_w wrote on 2024-10-18, 06:52:

I took the liberty of reorganizing them for cleanliness/neatness.

Hey, I think you did very well here! 😃👍 I couldn't do any better, either!

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-10-18, 01:52:

You're just not going to be able to have two copies of MSCDEX (because of the two CD-ROM drives), SMARTDRV, and 34KB of sound card drivers loaded *plus* EMS (which costs you 64K in UMBs) and have any reasonable amount of free conventional memory. Sorry.

Could you possibly dump the Creative drivers and just initialize the card with something like UNISOUND (right here on the forum) instead? Which costs you nothing in memory since it's not a TSR. I guess it depends if you're running some game that actually needs those drivers.
Can you give up SHSUCDHD? Or use a boot disk or menu setup when you need that and EMS?

I concur. I don't think CTSB16 and CTMMSYS are needed for anything game-related. IIRC, it was for audio production. CTCM/CTCU and AWEUTIL /S is all that's needed to initialize an AWE card, and they are not TSRs.

As for MSCDEX, my DOS system has two CDROM drives, and I still only need one "copy" of MSCDEX (there is only one /D switch, matching the one of the physical CDROM driver, VIDE-CDD in my case). I suppose he needs it for SHSUCDHD? Maybe as you say - this can be waived or made optional.

Also, if EMS is available, MSCDEX /E will move a good chunk of it into the EMS, freeing some upper memory.

dr_st wrote on 2024-10-22, 12:13:

Also, if EMS is available, MSCDEX /E will move a good chunk of it into the EMS, freeing some upper memory.

The cloaked MSCDEX doesn't need EMS, by the way. It will run in entirely in Extended Memory.
It mereely requies an ~1 KB stub in Conventional Memory or UMA.

dr_st wrote on 2024-10-22, 12:13:

I concur. I don't think CTSB16 and CTMMSYS are needed for anything game-related. IIRC, it was for audio production. CTCM/CTCU an […]
Show full quote

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-10-18, 01:52:

You're just not going to be able to have two copies of MSCDEX (because of the two CD-ROM drives), SMARTDRV, and 34KB of sound card drivers loaded *plus* EMS (which costs you 64K in UMBs) and have any reasonable amount of free conventional memory. Sorry.

Could you possibly dump the Creative drivers and just initialize the card with something like UNISOUND (right here on the forum) instead? Which costs you nothing in memory since it's not a TSR. I guess it depends if you're running some game that actually needs those drivers.
Can you give up SHSUCDHD? Or use a boot disk or menu setup when you need that and EMS?

I concur. I don't think CTSB16 and CTMMSYS are needed for anything game-related. IIRC, it was for audio production. CTCM/CTCU and AWEUTIL /S is all that's needed to initialize an AWE card, and they are not TSRs.

As for MSCDEX, my DOS system has two CDROM drives, and I still only need one "copy" of MSCDEX (there is only one /D switch, matching the one of the physical CDROM driver, VIDE-CDD in my case). I suppose he needs it for SHSUCDHD? Maybe as you say - this can be waived or made optional.

Also, if EMS is available, MSCDEX /E will move a good chunk of it into the EMS, freeing some upper memory.

I'm not sure that there are literally two mscdexes running, but the one that is running is enormous (57K)
Maybe you're onto something with it taking less memory if there are two drives, but that are both served by one driver in config.sys instead of two.

There seems to be only one physical DVD drive. The other is the iso loader device from the SHSU package.

Since they have the SHSU package, I am wondering why they arent using SHSUCDX instead of MSCDEX.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-10-18, 01:52:

You're just not going to be able to have two copies of MSCDEX (because of the two CD-ROM drives), SMARTDRV, and 34KB of sound card drivers loaded *plus* EMS (which costs you 64K in UMBs) and have any reasonable amount of free conventional memory. Sorry.

Could you possibly dump the Creative drivers and just initialize the card with something like UNISOUND (right here on the forum) instead? Which costs you nothing in memory since it's not a TSR. I guess it depends if you're running some game that actually needs those drivers.
Can you give up SHSUCDHD? Or use a boot disk or menu setup when you need that and EMS?

I followed your advise to use Unisound and that was quite a succes. It worked very well on my AWE32 card and the result was a large amount of free memory. I installed the Creative drivers only for Windows 3.11, which went very well without changing config.sys and autoexec.bat. So, thank you very much Jake.