Hm. Strange. That reads like MS-DOS 6.22 was being used for starting Windows 9x..
On other hand, Windows 95/98 DOS (DOS 7.x) and its associated utilities did identify itself as "Windows" sometimes.

If you can, try loading SETVER in config.sys. Maybe it helps.
New entries for SETVER can also be made manually.

Edit: Windows 3.x and 9.x need real himem.sys in order to work.
Windows 9x needs himem.sys from DOS 7.x, which supports XMS v3.
Using an older himem.sys or a replacement (FreeDOS, QEMM) is not going to work.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-10-19, 20:59:

Hm. Strange. That reads like MS-DOS 6.22 was being used for starting Windows 9x.. On other hand, Windows 95/98 DOS (DOS 7.x) and […]
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Hm. Strange. That reads like MS-DOS 6.22 was being used for starting Windows 9x..
On other hand, Windows 95/98 DOS (DOS 7.x) and its associated utilities did identify itself as "Windows" sometimes.

If you can, try loading SETVER in config.sys. Maybe it helps.
New entries for SETVER can also be made manually.

Sorry, I didn't mention but I tried setver already.
All the files I'm using are coming from a windows 98se, so there is no risk of mixed stuff. Also according to dosidle it's designed to work without any memory manager but it states it should work fine even with one enabled.
I also tried to try strip down config.sys and autoexec.bat leaving only xmgr and emm386 (no other drivers) but I get the same error, with jemmex I tried the most conservative settings, same issue.
At the same time programs like doom and quake works fine even with emm386 loaded, it's probably because they use their own dos extender.
As mentioned I also tried the himem.sys from windows directory, it changes nothing.

Hm. Not sure. I'm not familiar with DOS 7 (anymore).

I just vaguely remember that MS-DOS 7.x loads himem.sys automatically, -for Windows 9x-, unless a setting in msdos.sys is changed (it's a text file in DOS 7).

If that setting is changed, himem.sys will nolonger being automatically loaded and the user can load himem.sys manually in config.sys.
Or use a different XMS manager, if needed.

Edit: Correction. It might have been DOS=NOAUTO in config.sys (HIGH, UMB can be left added).
If set, it will not load HIMEM.SYS, IFSHLP.SYS, DBLBUFF.SYS, ASPI2DRV.SYS, SETVER.EXE automatically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIMEM.SYS
http://www.antonis.de/dos/dos-tuts/mpdostip/h … ml/msdostip.htm

I'm sorry but I think you are probably confusing with windows me (dos 8 ) which automatically loads those files (which are integrated), either way I changed the switch on my config.sys from auto to noauto, it just avoid to load the file IFSHLP.

Auto:

1Moduli utilizzanti memoria al di sotto di 1 MB:
2
3  Nome           Totale          Convenzionale    Memoria superiore
4  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
5  SYSTEM      35.664   (35K)      9.920   (10K)     25.744   (25K)
6  XMGR         2.320    (2K)        560    (1K)      1.760    (2K)
7  EMM386       4.176    (4K)      4.176    (4K)          0    (0K)
8  COMMAND     10.064   (10K)          0    (0K)     10.064   (10K)
9  CTMOUSE      3.104    (3K)          0    (0K)      3.104    (3K)
10  SHSUCDX      6.176    (6K)          0    (0K)      6.176    (6K)
11  DISPLAY      8.304    (8K)          0    (0K)      8.304    (8K)
12  XDVD2          160    (0K)          0    (0K)        160    (0K)
13  IFSHLP       2.864    (3K)          0    (0K)      2.864    (3K)
14  KEYB         6.944    (7K)          0    (0K)      6.944    (7K)
15  DOSKEY       9.840   (10K)          0    (0K)      9.840   (10K)
16  Disp.      735.968  (719K)    640.496  (625K)     95.472   (93K)
17
18Riepilogo della memoria:
19
20  Tipo di memoria      Totale         Usata     Disponibile
21  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
22  Convenzionale         655.360        14.864       640.496
23  Superiore             170.432        74.960        95.472
24  Riservata                   0             0             0
25  Estesa (XMS)      2.150.393.4     2.410.048   2.147.983.3
26  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
27  Memoria totale    2.151.219.2     2.499.872   2.148.719.3
28
29  Tot. inf. a 1 MB      825.792        89.824       735.968
30
31  Dim. massima di un programma eseguibile                   640.480   (625K)
32  Dim. massima di un blocco libero di memoria superiore      87.792    (86K)
33  MS-DOS Š residente nell'area di memoria alta.

Noauto:

1Moduli utilizzanti memoria al di sotto di 1 MB:
2
3  Nome           Totale          Convenzionale    Memoria superiore
4  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
5  SYSTEM      35.648   (35K)     10.544   (10K)     25.104   (25K)
6  XMGR         2.320    (2K)        560    (1K)      1.760    (2K)
7  EMM386       4.176    (4K)      4.176    (4K)          0    (0K)
8  COMMAND     10.064   (10K)          0    (0K)     10.064   (10K)
9  CTMOUSE      3.104    (3K)          0    (0K)      3.104    (3K)
10  SHSUCDX      6.176    (6K)          0    (0K)      6.176    (6K)
11  DISPLAY      8.304    (8K)          0    (0K)      8.304    (8K)
12  XDVD2          160    (0K)          0    (0K)        160    (0K)
13  KEYB         6.944    (7K)          0    (0K)      6.944    (7K)
14  DOSKEY       9.840   (10K)          0    (0K)      9.840   (10K)
15  Disp.      738.832  (722K)    639.872  (625K)     98.960   (97K)
16
17Riepilogo della memoria:
18
19  Tipo di memoria      Totale         Usata     Disponibile
20  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
21  Convenzionale         655.360        15.488       639.872
22  Superiore             170.416        71.456        98.960
23  Riservata                   0             0             0
24  Estesa (XMS)      2.150.393.4     2.410.064   2.147.983.3
25  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
26  Memoria totale    2.151.219.2     2.497.008   2.148.722.1
27
28  Tot. inf. a 1 MB      825.776        86.944       738.832
29
30  Dim. massima di un programma eseguibile                   639.856   (625K)
31  Dim. massima di un blocco libero di memoria superiore      91.280    (89K)
32  MS-DOS Š residente nell'area di memoria alta.

As matter of fact it changes nothing, I have the very same crash. I did another try though, I loaded the system with shift+f5, I did mem and checked what there was, just command and system stuff, then I enabled dosidle which worked fine then I loaded jemmex (with load -v) then I tried to give the mem command then I got an error (it was what I was hoping for):
exception 06 occured at CS:EIP9C97:00000386, *another 2 lines of errors*.

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-10-19, 22:38:

I'm sorry but I think you are probably confusing with windows me (dos 8 ) which automatically loads those files (which are integrated), either way I changed the switch on my config.sys from auto to noauto, it just avoid to load the file IFSHLP.

Hm. Maybe you're right. I do admit I know very little about MS-DOS 7.x, I'm more of an MS-DOS 6.22 person. 😅

Sorry, I have no clue at the moment.

My Windows 98SE laptop currently has Helix memory manager loaded and XMGR is not loaded.

XMGR seems to be a Windows 9x specfic program?
I read that it can be used to run Windows from plain DOS, so that himem.sys isn't required.

Edit: Silly me! I've confused it with XMSMMGR.EXE. 😅

Jo22 wrote on 2024-10-19, 22:49:

Hm. Maybe you're right. I do admit I know very little about MS-DOS 7.x, I'm more of an MS-DOS 6.22 person. 😅 […]
Show full quote

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-10-19, 22:38:

I'm sorry but I think you are probably confusing with windows me (dos 8 ) which automatically loads those files (which are integrated), either way I changed the switch on my config.sys from auto to noauto, it just avoid to load the file IFSHLP.

Hm. Maybe you're right. I do admit I know very little about MS-DOS 7.x, I'm more of an MS-DOS 6.22 person. 😅

Sorry, I have no clue at the moment.

My Windows 98SE laptop currently has Helix memory manager loaded and XMGR is not loaded.

XMGR seems to be a Windows 9x specfic program?
I read that it can be used to run Windows from plain DOS, so that himem.sys isn't required.

No xmgr is a substitute of himem (http://optimizr.dyndns.org/dos/drivers.html) and it's not the problem since if I just load xmgr the app starts fine, the problem is the emm (jemmex works as substitute of himem+emm386) if I load it those apps crash.
Helix memory manager are you using it with msdos 6.22 I suppose, right?

Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-10-19, 22:55:

Helix memory manager are you using it with msdos 6.22 I suppose, right?

Um, yes, that, as well.

I'm using it for VMs running MS-DOS 6.22, sometimes in combination with Qemm 9.

The Compaq laptop here runs normal MS-DOS 7.1 and Windows 98SE, though. Together with the Helix bundle (Helix Multimedia Cloaking), which is Win95 compatible.
Windows 3.1 is also installed in a separate dirrctory. Partition is FAT16, because the HDD is small.

So I have been able to somewhat alleviate the issue.
You were right that windows 98 automatically loads some drivers (when it's selected to boot the "gui"), after I changed from AUTO to NOAUTO, I had to add some lines on config.sys:

1DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
2DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE
3DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\DBLBUFF.SYS
4DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
5DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)

Since the issues I had were when booting on dos, those are just for future reference.

I modified the boot files a bit and now I am able to make dosidle works even with an emm (doesn't matter if emm386 or jemmex). It's not clear actually what changed the situation, when I run HWINF623 everything still crashes in a bad way.
What makes instead crash the system every time is the microsoft mouse driver (9.01), it really goes nuts on a hardware level, the speaker squeaks 3 times, the leds on the keyboard begins to lite (all 3) and then it says it found no mouse, after that dos apparently boots fine but then every program crashes (in a different way from the other crash, like if there was any memory segmentation fault).

Tomorrow I will try if I will be able to troubleshoot the issue even more. In the meanwhile, I was able to make run sbemu on dos but I can't find the right drivers for windows 98 (and xp?). The codec is the classic ac'97 the chip which provides it it's the sis 7012.
I've found some drivers (one called a12112d_SIS_7012_audio__realtek_rl5383_ which includes driver for both xp and 98 but the card doesn't get detected).
Some details:
Vendor: 1039h
Device: 7012h
Subsystem ID: 030013F6h
Obviously on ecs website they do not provide any audio driver for this motherboard: https://www.ecs.com.tw/he/Product/Motherboard … s/specification

Just to avoid any problem. I began from scratch. Installed a fresh copy of windows 98 after a format, I kept the config.sys and autoexec.bat as most vanilla as possible:

CONFIG.SYS

1DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\setver.exe
2DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\display.sys con=(ega,,1)
3DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
4DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE
5Country=039,850,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys

AUTOEXEC.BAT

1LH C:\UTIL\DOSIDLE.EXE
2mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi)
3mode con codepage select=850
4keyb it,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys

MSDOS.SYS

1[Paths]
2WinDir=C:\WINDOWS
3WinBootDir=C:\WINDOWS
4HostWinBootDrv=C
5
6[Options]
7BootMulti=1
8BootGUI=0
9DoubleBuffer=1
10AutoScan=1
11DrvSpace=0  
12DblSpace=0
13Logo=1
14WinVer=4.10.2222
15;
16;The following lines are required for compatibility with other programs.
17;Do not remove them (MSDOS.SYS needs to be >1024 bytes).
18;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxa
19;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxb
20;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxc
21;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxd
22;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxe
23;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxf
24;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxg
25;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxh
26;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxi
27;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxj
28;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxk
29;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxl
30;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxm
31;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxn
32;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
33;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxp
34;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxq
35;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxr
36;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxs

Despite of that if dosidle is loaded with emm386 the system crashes.