VOGONS


First post, by Kerr Avon

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I've read more than a dozen different (magazine and online) articles about what to do when Microsoft stop supporting Windows 10, for people who can't or won't 'upgrade' to Windows 11.
They mention the usual answers, such as using Linux, or Linux + dual booting Windows 10 so you use Linux for online stuff and Windows 10 for offline gaming, or just sticking with
Windows 10 + third party anti-virus/anti-malware/firewall protection software to hopefully keep your PC safe, etc.

But today I learned about another possible solution, one that I've never seen either mentioned in the above kind of a articles, or anywhere else, be it on the 'net or when talking to other
Windows users, and that's Windows LTSC. Windows LTSC is a cut down version of Windows 10 or Windows 11 (you choose which version to download and install), and the Windows 10
version is supported by Microsoft, security and major bug/security-fix-wise, until 2032.

To quote from https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links :

"LTSC (Long-Term Servicing Channel)

It is designed for devices where functionality and features must remain constant over time, such as medical systems, industrial controllers, and air traffic control devices.
Examples of editions include: Enterprise LTSC and IoT Enterprise LTSC.
Maximum support on the same build is usually 5 years for LTSC and 10 years for the IoT LTSC.
This is not the main servicing channel and other software and games usually don't follow this channel's life cycle. For example, browsers and games might not provide support for 10 years on same build.
It lacks most of the Store (UWP) apps.


Reasons to use LTSC:

You don't like annual Windows feature upgrades.
You don't like preinstalled Store (UWP) apps as well.
You want longer update support for Windows 10.


Reasons to avoid using LTSC:

As stated above, many games and software might not support LTSC once that same build has reached the end of life in GAC.
Games might not work out of the box and you will manually need to install store and Xbox apps.
New hardware might not be fully supported by a 2-3 year-old LTSC build (A new version of LTSC is released every 3 years).
You might miss new features added in GAC that aren't available in LTSC.


Common misconceptions

LTSC is fast.
It's not fast, although there might be a bit more RAM available because of no store apps running in the background, and you can achieve the same result in GAC channel editions by turning off background apps and startup apps.
It's more privacy-oriented.
No, telemetry options are the same as GAC Enterprise.
"

No one I've asked has even heard of this before, so has anyone here tried it? What is game compatibility like with it? Can it be a possible solution to the end-of-Windows-10-support problem that's coming this October?

And I have to say that the lack of new, added features is more of a good thing than a negative, as when I want a feature I prefer to use a third party solution, rather than Microsoft's usually inferior and integrated-even-if-you-don't-want-it efforts.

Reply 1 of 25, by DosFreak

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You don't have to go off of conjecture, just check the EOL website MS has.
Keep in mind though that for quite some time the users are the beta testers (in production....) and with less users means less testing and it's bad enough with a OS that has a ton of users.

There is also the fact that open source (dev tools,apps and games have a lot of dependencies here) is mainly funded by companies and the mindset by the "community" is that if the OS is no longer supported (LTSC or extended doesn't count by them apparently) then support will be dropped by the "community". This has happened before and continues to happen. So you'll run into a situation where MS still supports the OS (extended, LTSC) but you'll get a massive amount of pushback from the "community" when you bring up an issue.

As far as current compatibility you're likely good just keep in mind the above for when you encounter an issue and you will eventually.

Make sure you keep backups of the OS,software and games you use now since they will break later via updates that break OS compatibility.

Last edited by DosFreak on 2025-04-06, 14:37. Edited 5 times in total.

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Make your games work offline

Reply 2 of 25, by Joseph_Joestar

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I'm using it right now. For me, game compatibility seems the same as regular Windows 10, though I don't play a lot of newer titles on this system. Plain Win10 LTSC will be supported until 2027, and the IoT version until 2032. My use case is mainly that I wanted a way to download Steam games to my retro rig after Steam fully stops working on Win7. Maybe someone who plays newer games on more modern hardware would be able to provide additional insight.

P.S.

Installing the Windows Store on Win10 LTSC 2021 can be done with a single command from the Powershell as an admin:

wsreset -i

It may take the store several minutes to install, and there won't be any visible feedback on the screen, except for a single error message, but that won't stop the installation. The store will just appear as a start menu entry after the installation is complete.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 3 of 25, by hornet1990

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I’ve rebuilt my laptop and workstation with ltsc 2021 as they both needed doing for different reasons. It may not be faster but my laptop definitely feels less sluggish, and an issue I had with the touchscreen since new which lead to me to disabling it has gone.

Only thing I’ve found so far is that Apples replacement apps for iTunes require the latest win10 version (22h2?), for apparently no good reason. Apparently you can download the packages and tweak the manifest to allow it to install on older versions, although I’ve not yet tried it. The store just offers iTunes, but does offer the iCloud app separately.

Another option you’ve not mentioned is a third party patching service such as https://0patch.com/ which can keep the system patched and secure for a lot less than MS wants to charge you from year 2 onwards…

Reply 5 of 25, by Joseph_Joestar

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keropi wrote on 2025-04-06, 16:47:

as a normal user can you actually get a LTSC license/key ?
or you need to rely on some key-selling store ?

There are key shops which sell Windows 10 LTSC keys. This is a grey area though, as the keys weren't meant for retail. For what it's worth, mine worked fine, and the activation seems to be permanent from what I can tell, i.e. no phoning home every 180 days to check if your key is still valid.

That said, I have also heard that buying certain second hand workstation PCs will automatically activate Windows 10 LTSC on them. Haven't tried this personally though, so I can't say how well it works.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 6 of 25, by Joseph_Joestar

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hornet1990 wrote on 2025-04-06, 16:35:

Only thing I’ve found so far is that Apples replacement apps for iTunes require the latest win10 version (22h2?), for apparently no good reason.

I haven't tried installing iTunes yet, but my Win10 LTSC updated to 21H2 on its own, via normal Windows Update procedure. So if iTunes is only looking for that, there should be no problem.

EDIT - just installed iTunes 12.13.7.1 and it worked without any issues.

The attachment iTunes_Win10_LTSC.jpg is no longer available
Last edited by Joseph_Joestar on 2025-04-06, 17:39. Edited 2 times in total.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 7 of 25, by hornet1990

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keropi wrote on 2025-04-06, 16:47:

as a normal user can you actually get a LTSC license/key ?
or you need to rely on some key-selling store ?

Or an MSDN subscription, especially if you can get one via your work…

Reply 8 of 25, by The Serpent Rider

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I guess something similar to UpdatePack7R2 will be implemented for normal Windows 10 Pro to integrate security updates from LTSC. Then again, Windows 10 install base is still very large, so Microsoft could probably change their mind and tie LTSC and normal support to 2027.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 9 of 25, by hornet1990

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-04-06, 17:06:

I haven't tried installing iTunes yet, but my Win10 LTSC updated to 21H2 on its own, via normal Windows Update procedure. So if iTunes is only looking for that, there should be no problem.

EDIT - just installed iTunes 12.13.7.1 and it worked without any issues.

The attachment iTunes_Win10_LTSC.jpg is no longer available

Yeah iTunes works on 21H2 but it’s EOL and a piece of crap. They’ve replaced it with a number of apps including Music, TV and Devices (see https://www.zdnet.com/article/goodbye- ... r-windows/) which as I say require 22H2 to install from the store but people have supposedly gotten them working on much older versions by doing it manually.

Reply 10 of 25, by megatron-uk

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LTSC is pretty common on embedded devices and "hardware bundles with instrumentation"; think things like x-ray crystallography machines, DNA sequencers, things like that. Even oscilloscopes these days are usually PC backed rather than discrete electronics.

Vendors will often supply the compute device that controls it with LTSC in order that the environment is relatively stable (no new features) and that OS support is (usually) appreciably longer than mainstream.

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 11 of 25, by Joseph_Joestar

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hornet1990 wrote on 2025-04-06, 19:29:

Yeah iTunes works on 21H2 but it’s EOL and a piece of crap. They’ve replaced it with a number of apps including Music, TV and Devices (see https://www.zdnet.com/article/goodbye- ... r-windows/) which as I say require 22H2 to install from the store but people have supposedly gotten them working on much older versions by doing it manually.

My bad, I misunderstood what you meant.

I just tried accessing Apple Music from the Microsoft Store on Win10 LTSC and it says: "The version of Windows on your PC doesn't meet the minimum requirements for this product". So yeah, it can't be installed without using a workaround.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 12 of 25, by zyzzle

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May Windows 10 LTSC be installed *over* an existing Windows 10 installation without re-formatting?

Reply 13 of 25, by Trashbytes

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What do people think is going to happen to make Windows 10 EOL any less safe than it is currently ?

Buy a good virus scanner and make sure your firewall settings are correct or run a Linux router/firewall and I cant see Windows 10 after EOL being any less safe than it currently is...if you think its totally safe now well I may have a bridge in Manhatten I want to sell you.

Windows will only ever be as safe as the person using it and the safe practises they work under.

Reply 14 of 25, by Trashbytes

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zyzzle wrote on 2025-04-07, 01:10:

May Windows 10 LTSC be installed *over* an existing Windows 10 installation without re-formatting?

no .. please dont do this to LTSC.

Reply 15 of 25, by Trashbytes

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hornet1990 wrote on 2025-04-06, 19:29:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-04-06, 17:06:

I haven't tried installing iTunes yet, but my Win10 LTSC updated to 21H2 on its own, via normal Windows Update procedure. So if iTunes is only looking for that, there should be no problem.

EDIT - just installed iTunes 12.13.7.1 and it worked without any issues.

The attachment iTunes_Win10_LTSC.jpg is no longer available

Yeah iTunes works on 21H2 but it’s EOL and a piece of crap. They’ve replaced it with a number of apps including Music, TV and Devices (see https://www.zdnet.com/article/goodbye- ... r-windows/) which as I say require 22H2 to install from the store but people have supposedly gotten them working on much older versions by doing it manually.

Even the replacements are a pile of shite ..Apple TV is the most unreliable pile of shit I have ever used, I do have an older version of Itunes that still works however, you do need the version before they locked your library out of it though.

Reply 16 of 25, by leileilol

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Years later, it's going to take something vile like a kernel function call to "copilot" that a new enforced visual c runtime will do for killing win10 support. I know what happened to Win7 only a few years ago, with the "certified expert community" telling you to uselessly download the VCRT runtimes when the secret is in the Win10/11 updates that exclusively have them, and if you copy from them then they'll shout down how you're illegal/stupid/luddite etc

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Reply 17 of 25, by chinny22

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megatron-uk wrote on 2025-04-06, 20:17:

LTSC is pretty common on embedded devices and "hardware bundles with instrumentation"; think things like x-ray crystallography machines, DNA sequencers, things like that. Even oscilloscopes these days are usually PC backed rather than discrete electronics.

Vendors will often supply the compute device that controls it with LTSC in order that the environment is relatively stable (no new features) and that OS support is (usually) appreciably longer than mainstream.

We have a select few PC's running LTSC for this exact reason.
Hardware is exactly the same as a standard user PC (Dell OptiPlex SFF's) but are do a specific function or bit of software where we don't want the downtime or possible incompatibility of a feature update.
That said the PC often doubles as a users PC and has at least Office and Teams installed (but not much else) Compatibility seems the same in fact the only difference is it won't let you try and upgrade to the latest feature update.

Reply 18 of 25, by Treah

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I am honestly wondering if MS will actually kill support when they intend to.... There are many MANY users not upgrading to windows 11 and the adoption numbers really do support that. Similar things happened with windows XP and it was extended for way longer then MS wanted. But we will see considering their insistence on copilot and really wanting to get that sweet sweet tracking money 🤣.

Reply 19 of 25, by Trashbytes

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Treah wrote on 2025-04-07, 22:17:

I am honestly wondering if MS will actually kill support when they intend to.... There are many MANY users not upgrading to windows 11 and the adoption numbers really do support that. Similar things happened with windows XP and it was extended for way longer then MS wanted. But we will see considering their insistence on copilot and really wanting to get that sweet sweet tracking money 🤣.

I doubt they will ..they cant afford to drop it, my guess is itll be supported till 2027 at least for security updates but it wont receive any more useful features, naturally it'll still recieve the AI slop MS is forcing into every dam product they have.