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Memory ranking - 23 DOS KERNELS

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First post, by nico7550

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From my main project (my multi kernel boot disk (on demand only)), here are the lastest memory ranking of 23 DOS kernels each (almost) with 37 memory profiles based on the same Pentium configuration using 86BOX.

The attachment NBD25951_-_RESULTS_CNC.NFO is no longer available

Jemmex is the best all-around memory manager for DOS.
https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/Jemm

MS-DOS 7.1 (WIN98) is the best average DOS kernel across all the tests.

Reply 1 of 20, by Jo22

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Halleluja! Jesus, Mary and Joseph! 🤯
That's some really impressive work here! So much numbers! Kudos!
This totally deserves an Excel sheet, for graphical representation!

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 2 of 20, by valnar

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Very nice! You should try 386Max on a couple of the DOS's as a spot check to see if you can squeeze more?

Last edited by valnar on 2025-04-18, 12:06. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 3 of 20, by nico7550

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Here are the excel file used

The attachment NBD25951_-_RESULTS_CNC.7z is no longer available

Reply 4 of 20, by nico7550

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valnar wrote on 2025-04-18, 12:04:

Very nice! You should try QEMM386 or 386Max on a couple of the DOS's as a spot check to see if you can squeeze more?

As the main goal of my project is to have all in one floppy, testing QEMM and 386MAX is not a priority, because there size forbid to add them in the floppy

QEMM comment in my main NFO:
- Due to lack of space, to the fact that QEMM need more than 400Ko to operate, QEMM is no more include, there is a specific boot disk in the Docs folder.

There is also a NETROOM and a MAXMEM boot disk.

There is some number in the ranking for them 3, QEMM first place is rank 11

Reply 5 of 20, by igully

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Hi,

I appreciate the amount of work you have put on building this list/disk,
however, I must point out I see many inconsistencies in the methodology
you apply to perform your rankings, and the lack of information about
the metric used for such purposes. Let me explain with a few simple examples:

Not all kernels have the same feature set: MS-DOS 6.22 does not
support FAT32 while many others in your list do. More features, usually
means more code which results in an increment on footprint.

Other kernels include built-in commands and drivers than most not.

Another example is latest DR-DOS kernel that when paired with its memory
manager, can provide multitasking.

Then you force all kernels to use a single command interpreter, this becomes
suboptimal for many of them, as some pass specific information to
their own shell. For example, multi-config information and single line
execution on latest DR-DOS variants. So if you plug in another Shell you
may alter those features.

Perhaps, it is worth redoing the list/work in two stages, one where you
just place the kernel together with the original shell intended for it,
and another where you add their intended memory managers.

Anyway, thanks to your list, I have learned about the existence of WMAT-DOS.

What about all other less well known DOS commercial variants?

DOS98
NAI-DOS
X-DOS 5.2
JK-DOS 3.3e
Embedded DOS 6XL
Embedded DOS-ROM 4.04

It would also be interesting to detail the memory managers addressing
limits, as some despite their specs go a bit lower and others higher. The
only two 64 bit memory managers I know of are missing too.

Reply 6 of 20, by nico7550

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igully wrote on 2025-04-18, 18:27:
Hi, […]
Show full quote

Hi,

I appreciate the amount of work you have put on building this list/disk,
however, I must point out I see many inconsistencies in the methodology
you apply to perform your rankings, and the lack of information about
the metric used for such purposes. Let me explain with a few simple examples:

Not all kernels have the same feature set: MS-DOS 6.22 does not
support FAT32 while many others in your list do. More features, usually
means more code which results in an increment on footprint.

Other kernels include built-in commands and drivers than most not.

Another example is latest DR-DOS kernel that when paired with its memory
manager, can provide multitasking.

Then you force all kernels to use a single command interpreter, this becomes
suboptimal for many of them, as some pass specific information to
their own shell. For example, multi-config information and single line
execution on latest DR-DOS variants. So if you plug in another Shell you
may alter those features.

Perhaps, it is worth redoing the list/work in two stages, one where you
just place the kernel together with the original shell intended for it,
and another where you add their intended memory managers.

Anyway, thanks to your list, I have learned about the existence of WMAT-DOS.

What about all other less well known DOS commercial variants?

DOS98
NAI-DOS
X-DOS 5.2
JK-DOS 3.3e
Embedded DOS 6XL
Embedded DOS-ROM 4.04

It would also be interesting to detail the memory managers addressing
limits, as some despite their specs go a bit lower and others higher. The
only two 64 bit memory managers I know of are missing too.

Thanks for your comment, in order to compare you have to set the most common base or the results will not be valid.
It's only my opinion.

My project is a multi kernel bootdisk so I cannot have every interpreter and must stick to a common one, 4DOS is the best for my need.

Here are the other DOS I test without success:

- RxDOS (tested pre-release 7.25) isn't included because there is a problem with 4DOS for now.
- TeraByte OS isn't included because it only support is own interpreter.
- DOS-C isn't included because it didn't use the standard config.sys boot menu syntax.
- TX-DOS isn't included because it didn't suit minimal memory requirement to use 'modern' memory manager.
- RETRO-DOS 3 isn't included, based on DOS 3.3, it didn't support needed commands.
- Embedded DOS-ROM isn't included, it din't support needed commands.
- Udos isn't included, it didn't support needed commands.
- PDOS isn't included, it didn't recognize 4DOS.
- FLOP OS isn't included, it didn't support needed commands.
- NX-DOS isn't included, I cannot manage to boot it.
- RDOS isn't included, I didn't manage to really understand it...
- SigmaOS isn't included, it need a 64bit CPU.
- Flat(D)OS isn't included, it didn't support needed commands.
- SVARDOS isn't included because while based on FreeDOS Kernel 2042, it didn't support the standard config.sys boot menu syntax.
- ZDOS isn't included, it didn't support needed commands.
- Modified versions of MS-DOS 6.22 (6.2X, 6.3X) are not included as it's only an updated tools version with release version hex changed
- EuroDOS (part of PC-Check) isn't included, the kernel is locked to some specifics functions
- ST-DOS isn't included, it didn't support needed commands.
- LDOS by ECM based on MS-DOS 4.01 isn't included, all my tests give "configuration too large for memory" error.

If you can give me links for the DOS list you give, I will be happy to test.
Same for the memory manager.

But for my project I'm limited by a 1.44 floppy so I cannot integrate everything.

Reply 7 of 20, by ecm

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Hi, I'd like to investigate the lDOS error you get. Can you show me a configuration that fails? Either a complete disk image or at least ldos.ini or config.sys contents?

Reply 8 of 20, by nico7550

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ecm wrote on 2025-04-18, 19:59:

Hi, I'd like to investigate the lDOS error you get. Can you show me a configuration that fails? Either a complete disk image or at least ldos.ini or config.sys contents?

here is a bootdisk that show the erreur and my 86box config file

megawrzuta.pl/krccjxfs

Reply 9 of 20, by Jo22

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What about all other less well known DOS commercial variants?

You mean such as Wendin DOS, PC-MOS/386, Concurrent DOS (aka CCDOS), Flex OS, Real/32, DOS Plus .. ? 😉
Just kidding. These are the multitasking/multi-user DOSes.
They always come to my mind first, but are probably not relevant to this thread. They're not exactly good for games, I mean.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 10 of 20, by ecm

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nico7550 wrote on 2025-04-18, 21:30:
ecm wrote on 2025-04-18, 19:59:

Hi, I'd like to investigate the lDOS error you get. Can you show me a configuration that fails? Either a complete disk image or at least ldos.ini or config.sys contents?

here is a bootdisk that show the erreur and my 86box config file

megawrzuta.pl/krccjxfs

Thanks! I get the same error in qemu booting that kernel. Apparently you used https://pushbx.org/ecm/download/old/ldos/20250313.zip which has a bug fixed in https://hg.pushbx.org/ecm/msdos4/rev/994ef7584893 (2025-03-22) when the HMA is used and you specify enough buffers that any of them end up at 0FFFEh:0C000h or higher.

You may want to try ldos.com 2025 March from https://pushbx.org/ecm/download/old/ldos/20250411.zip (By the way, you don't need ldos.sys that you have on the boot disk - ldos.com alone contains the full kernel.)

Reply 13 of 20, by nico7550

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I take your comments into account and list some kernels to retest to just test.
First one:
General Software Embedded DOS-ROM 4.04 isn't included:
-It didn't support multiconfig commands
-The boot managers I test didn't work (BOOT, MCONFIG, MULTICNF)
-It didn't support the Candyman Multi Bootsector loader.

Reply 14 of 20, by nico7550

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FLOP OS isn't included, it didn't support needed commands or I don't know how to use it?

Flat(D)OS isn't included, it didn't support needed commands or I don't know how to use it?

Reply 15 of 20, by nico7550

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RetroDOS 3.3 (based on MS_DOS 3.3) will be included in the next release

Reply 16 of 20, by nico7550

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ST-DOS isn't included, it didn't support needed commands or I don't know how to use it? (for example parameters aren't supported for loading driver, 4DOS crash on loading...)

Reply 17 of 20, by nico7550

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SVARDOS (not the EDR version) (latest http://svardos.org/?p=files&dir=20240725) isn't included, it's based on FreeDOS kernel build 2042 so it's useless as the latest FreeDOS kernel is included.

Reply 18 of 20, by nico7550

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UDOS isn't included, the kernel is FreeDOS build 2035a so it's useless as the latest FreeDOS kernel is included.

Reply 19 of 20, by nico7550

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X-DOS 3.3e from HBS for JK microsystems Products from 2003 (http://www.jkmicro.com/Downloads-General.html) isn't included, as written in readme, it didn't load autoexec.bat.
Will test X-DOS 5.0 from 1993 (I also have binary from 1991 and 1992, I will compare all of them)
@igully I didn't find any trace of X-DOS 5.2, can you give me a hint please?