VOGONS


First post, by Imito

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Question for users that use the CF to IDE adapter on your retro PCs

There are CF cards where you can insert an SD card inside it. has anyone tried it?
does it work fine with a retro pc with the CF to IDE adapter?

or the machine only works if an original CF card is used?

Reply 1 of 22, by wbahnassi

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Depends. Generally I haven't had a great experience with the CF card solution.. using the SD adapter on top makes worse.
My last adventure was in an Intel 440BX mobo with a P2 CPU. Win98 installation failed on 3 out of 4 SD cards inserted via the adapter into the CF-to-IDE adapter.
The 4th SD card was of a high quality source (128GB) and was able to sustain operation.

I made previous attempts on Socket5 mobo and SD cards fail miserably there even when they get detected. On even older mobos, often they cause my mobo to not even POST.

On Socket 5 the best I had was using a straight 4GB CF card via the CF-IDE adapter. The C drive gives weird "not ready reading" errors every few days, but works if you press Retry.. Not great, but not the end of the world either.

On 386/486 I have a 256MB CF card that works very solidly..

So yeah... in my experience it depends on the host, on adapters, and on the cards themselves..

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 2 of 22, by scj312

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I've only used 1GB industrial CF cards in mine (they were all a dollar or two each from VCFMW and I couldn't resist..) and haven't had any problems with cards being flaky or not working. I use them in a 440BX system and a socket 5 system.

Reply 3 of 22, by RetroGamer4Ever

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The best flash solution for the pre-XP PCs is using an IDE flash module, which can be ordered through industrial computing suppliers. They just work, though I have no idea what the present availability is, given the volatility of the market and supply chain at the moment. Non-Industrial CF cards generally don't work these days, as the updated controllers used in consumer and professional cards are not compatible, nor should they be. SD cards don't have compatible controllers and aren't designed for use as anything beyond removable storage.

Reply 4 of 22, by NeoG_

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If you want to use an SD card, the Sinitech SD IDE adapter works well. Since it caps out at 25MB/s it's most suited for computers before 2001.

98/DOS Rig: BabyAT AladdinV, K6-2+/550, V3 2000, 128MB PC100, 20GB HDD, 128GB SD2IDE, SB Live!, SB16-SCSI, PicoGUS, WP32 McCake, iNFRA CD, ZIP100
XP Rig: Lian Li PC-10 ATX, Gigabyte X38-DQ6, Core2Duo E6850, ATi HD5870, 2GB DDR2, 2TB HDD, X-Fi XtremeGamer

Reply 5 of 22, by vstrakh

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Been using consumer grade Transcend CF cards (TS4GCF133, TS32GCF133, etc) with a range of PCs from Dos on 286 to Win98 on Pentium MMX.
No issues whatsoever, short IDE cables, long cables, removable HDD trays. Although I didn't push enough megabytes through their lifetime so can't judge about wear and tear.

I did encounter one particular 512MB CF card (Transcend "industrial grade" TS512MCF220I ) whose timings were borderline ok with short cables, but writes could fail occasionally when the IDE cable was longer. Reading were always ok, but writes would fail, and Retry mostly would complete it.

Reply 6 of 22, by Beerfloat

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wbahnassi wrote on 2026-03-31, 05:52:

On Socket 5 the best I had was using a straight 4GB CF card via the CF-IDE adapter. The C drive gives weird "not ready reading" errors every few days, but works if you press Retry.. Not great, but not the end of the world either.

This may be due to your specific IDE controller. On both of the socket 5 boards I tested recently, a Holtek controller does this exact thing, while Promise and Winbond controllers do not.

Reply 7 of 22, by GigAHerZ

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I have one CF-SD adapter. If i remember it correctly, it worked just fine in CF-IDE adapter.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - And i intend to get every last bit out of it even after loading every damn driver!
A little about software engineering: https://byteaether.github.io/

Reply 8 of 22, by Shponglefan

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RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2026-03-31, 07:51:

Non-Industrial CF cards generally don't work these days, as the updated controllers used in consumer and professional cards are not compatible, nor should they be.

I've used both Verbatim and genuine Sandisk branded cards, and they have worked without issue. Neither are branded as "industrial" CF cards.

I think the issues people have are less about industrial vs non-industrial cards and more about specific brands.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 9 of 22, by douglar

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Imito wrote on 2026-03-31, 05:16:
Question for users that use the CF to IDE adapter on your retro PCs […]
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Question for users that use the CF to IDE adapter on your retro PCs

There are CF cards where you can insert an SD card inside it. has anyone tried it?
does it work fine with a retro pc with the CF to IDE adapter?

or the machine only works if an original CF card is used?

I have used the CF to IDE adapters with an SD to CF bridge. My experience was

  • The SD to CF bridge was essentially the same thing as the SD to 40 pin IDE bridges, but in a smaller 50pin format, slightly modified firmware.
  • My bridge had a "type I" form factor, the normal CF size, and it required 3.3v to work. It didn't work if the CF adapter was jumpered to provide 5v.
  • Some people reported that bridges with a "type II" form factor, twice as thick as a normal CF, worked at 5v.

I would avoid using the SD to CF bridges unless you absolutely have to have the CF form factor.

They have the same FC1307a bridge chip as the SD to 40 pin IDE bridges. They have the same common limitations as the the SD to 40 pin IDE bridges but with the possible additional voltage limitation.

I put the known limitations of the FC1307a bridge chip here:

https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Storage# … _to_IDE_Bridges:

Reply 10 of 22, by fosterwj03

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I prefer SD cards for my retro computers because they're cheap, abundant, and easier to store. I've successfully used the cheap "Sintechi" SD-to-IDE adapters on my 486 VLB and Pentium PCI IDE adapters, and I use a similar SD-to-SATA adapter on my newer systems.

My 386 with ISA IDE adapters absolutely failed with the cheap SD-to-IDE adapter with drive corruption errors. I decided to search for a proper "Sintech" bridge solution. They were originally found on SD-to-CF adapters so I started to look for old, used ones. I figured anything marked as "UDMA" probably had the "Sintechi" design and I avoided them in my search. I eventually found a used and well worn (unbranded) SD-to-CF adapter that identifies itself as a "Memory Card Adapter" in the BIOS. It works perfectly with my 386, although Windows 95 OSR 2 believes it's a removable drive (not an issue in my case since it still boots into Windows).

I'd look for an old SD-to-CF adapter (one that advertises compatibility with SD and SDHC specifically) if you want maximum compatibility.

Reply 11 of 22, by MikeSG

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Shponglefan wrote on 2026-03-31, 12:46:
RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2026-03-31, 07:51:

Non-Industrial CF cards generally don't work these days, as the updated controllers used in consumer and professional cards are not compatible, nor should they be.

I've used both Verbatim and genuine Sandisk branded cards, and they have worked without issue. Neither are branded as "industrial" CF cards.

I think the issues people have are less about industrial vs non-industrial cards and more about specific brands.

For IDE to CF I could only use industrial branded CF cards. For ISA to CF I could use any. Tested multiple genuine Sandisk cards.

There is some different requirement for IDE to CF.

Reply 12 of 22, by Shponglefan

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MikeSG wrote on 2026-04-01, 09:07:

For IDE to CF I could only use industrial branded CF cards. For ISA to CF I could use any. Tested multiple genuine Sandisk cards.

There is some different requirement for IDE to CF.

I've been using IDE to CF adapters with Sandisk, Verbatim and Cisco Industrial cards without issue on a whole variety of systems.

I should note that I use cards that are appropriate sizes for the respective systems (e.g. 512MB or less for 486 and lower). For Sandisk cards I use the regular cards, none of the "extreme" or otherwise faster cards.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 13 of 22, by douglar

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Shponglefan wrote on 2026-03-31, 12:46:
RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2026-03-31, 07:51:

Non-Industrial CF cards generally don't work these days, as the updated controllers used in consumer and professional cards are not compatible, nor should they be.

I've used both Verbatim and genuine Sandisk branded cards, and they have worked without issue. Neither are branded as "industrial" CF cards.

I think the issues people have are less about industrial vs non-industrial cards and more about specific brands.

Compact Flash devices have a diverse family tree. The time of "peak CF" is long gone, the period of "discount inventory clearance" is also passed and what's left on the market today is either rebranded clones, random old stock from some point in the past, or high priced specialty product. Even if you buy the same make and model of CF from two different stores today, they are quite possibly very different, because one sat on a shelf for 15 years while the other is the unloved child of outsourcing & cost control initiatives. You might see the same logo on the shell but the guts (firmware, flash chips, and controller) can be very different. Quick CF notes: Cards older than 2006 are usually just slow. Cards with firmware newer than 2014 tend to have weaker support for MWDMA modes. CF's that used the best controllers are going to give SATA devices a run for their money on performance. Camera focused cards are likely to be disappointing on retro style work loads because they are tuned for high throughput on a few large transfers instead of low latency on many small transfers. Anyway. That's the state of CF devices in retro computing. There's a lot of different makes, there's probably one out there that's perfect for your build, but good luck finding it.

It's sort of the opposite of the SD situation. Unlike the diverse history of CF devices, almost all the SD bridges on the market right now use the FC-1307a chip with only a handful of known firmware revisions that all seem to perform very similarly. When you use these bridges, as long as you stick with an SD card <= 128GB that was made in the last 15 years, you can predict the performance and compatibility with reasonable certainty. They are all using the same bridge chip with the same limitations and the same quirky behavior. If you don't like the quirks, don't use these devices. If you don't run into the quirks and limitations, they are quite nice.

On a more interesting note, PICO IDE seems likely to reset the compatibility, feature set and performance expectations for SD storage in computers with Socket 8 and older.

Last edited by douglar on 2026-04-01, 14:22. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 14 of 22, by vstrakh

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Shponglefan wrote on 2026-04-01, 13:32:

I should note that I use cards that are appropriate sizes for the respective systems (e.g. 512MB or less for 486 and lower).

Not necessarily. As long as the number of heads and sectors as reported by CF card does not go out of the bios limits - the 1GB card runs totally ok in 286, and 4GB runs ok in 486.
Sure, some space is unused, but sometimes smaller cards are harder to find, while these "mid range GB's" are omnipresent.

Reply 15 of 22, by wierd_w

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The sintechi adapters are 'servicable' as long as you dont try to do crazy stuff with them.

I just wish there were better devices out there.

Reply 16 of 22, by Shponglefan

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douglar wrote on 2026-04-01, 14:18:

There's a lot of different makes, there's probably one out there that's perfect for your build, but good luck finding it.

I don't feel it's a matter of luck, so much as finding what works and sticking with it.

My own strategy has been buying up used lots of CF cards and/or NOS cards (typically Sandisk) from Ebay. I also stocked up on Verbatim branded cards from Amazon back when they were available a couple years ago.

I've used these on systems ranging from Turbo XT Tandy 1000 up to Pentium MMX systems.

For my Tandys, I typically use the low capacity Cisco Industrial cards (32/64MB). 286 systems I think I've used up to 128MB. Those systems require XT-IDE BIOS extensions.

For 386 and 486 systems I typically stick to 512MB or less, though I think one of my 486 systems I used a 1 or 2 GB card. These would be the regular Sandisk cards.

For Pentium / Pentium MMX I mostly use 2GB or 4GB Verbatim cards. I've also tested a 4GB Verbatim card with my Pentium 4 system, though ultimately didn't include it in the final build.

I've installed CF cards on well over a dozen different systems and they'll all worked, as long as I stick to appropriate brand cards and sizes for the respective systems.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 17 of 22, by Shponglefan

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vstrakh wrote on 2026-04-01, 14:22:
Shponglefan wrote on 2026-04-01, 13:32:

I should note that I use cards that are appropriate sizes for the respective systems (e.g. 512MB or less for 486 and lower).

Not necessarily. As long as the number of heads and sectors as reported by CF card does not go out of the bios limits - the 1GB card runs totally ok in 286, and 4GB runs ok in 486.
Sure, some space is unused, but sometimes smaller cards are harder to find, while these "mid range GB's" are omnipresent.

I'm just pointing what I've been doing and what has worked for me.

For the 486 systems in question, they will typically top out at 504MB supported, so I just use 512MB cards. Sure a larger card may work as well, but it's just a waste. I've got a bunch of old 512MB cards, so I stick to the approximate size of drive supported via the BIOS.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 18 of 22, by douglar

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vstrakh wrote on 2026-04-01, 14:22:
Shponglefan wrote on 2026-04-01, 13:32:

I should note that I use cards that are appropriate sizes for the respective systems (e.g. 512MB or less for 486 and lower).

Not necessarily. As long as the number of heads and sectors as reported by CF card does not go out of the bios limits - the 1GB card runs totally ok in 286, and 4GB runs ok in 486.
Sure, some space is unused, but sometimes smaller cards are harder to find, while these "mid range GB's" are omnipresent.

Using custom CHS values works fine as long as you 1) don't plan on moving the CF to a USB adapter in a contemporary computer and 2) you write down the CHS values in case you lose your bios drive table.

Reply 19 of 22, by wierd_w

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For such systems, i'll use a numbered table entry along with ezdrive or ontrack. (It's usually an old laptop, or other system where an option rom isn't possible)

DDOs work fine from my experience.