VOGONS


Features to add...

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First post, by Stiletto

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Let's make a list, guys!

Features to add to VDMS:
waveIn - perhaps there was a DOS sound recording utility? (surely)

Other Adlib plugins:
1. Create a different MAME-based Adlib plugin that is based on Ken Silverman's emulation.
2. Create a different MAME-based Adlib plugin that is based on Carl-Henrik Skarstedt's emulation.
(no particular reason, MAME's is better than both, just for variety I suppose)
3. Create a different MAME-based Adlib plugin that combines MAME's old emulation with the new one - adding sample support for YM3812 drumset. 😀
4. Add a feature that used to be in MAME - ym3812opl

-ym3812opl/-noym3812opl (default: -ym3812opl)
Uses the SoundBlaster OPL chip for music emulation of the YM3812 chip. This is faster, and is reasonably accurate, since the chips are 100% compatible. There is no control on the volume, however, and you need a real OPL chip for it to work (If you are using an SB-compatible card that emulates the OPL in software, the built-in digital emulation will probably sound better). On NT4.0, you will need to install mameopl.sys for the -ym3812opl option.

This would be similar to a feature that SoundFX 2000 has to use the on-card chip.

I can get you the MAME source mentioned if you want it, Vlad... if you don't have it already...

Anything else we're waiting for? (Please keep your suggestions to the scale that mine are at, not like "MAKE all DOS games work with sound d00dz! SBLive emu all da way!!!")

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 1 of 22, by DosFreak

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GliDos!

Ummm,....mabye not. 😉

DOSBox Compilation Guides
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Running DRM games offline

Reply 2 of 22, by Snover

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All new Creative Labs cards (starting with the SBLive!) no longer have OPL chips on them. This means that emulation would be mandatory. Still, a good option to have, I suppose.

Yes, it’s my fault.

Reply 3 of 22, by Stiletto

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Another thought:
Work with the author of GUSEMU (Tibor Schütz) to create an EmuGUS plugin for VDMS. Perhaps it could be distributed with VDMS, or perhaps with GUSEMU, or vice-versa.

Note: GUSEMU works under Win9x. VDMS does not. Perhaps GUSEMU's source could be a starting point for Vlad or another programmer of VDMS to add a Win9x port of VDMS down the road.

And of course -
- SB16 emulation (with the OPL3 emulation Jarek's working on)
- Roland MT32 emulation (that Vlad's working on)
- EMU8k/EMU10k pass-thru (like SoundFX 2000 has)
- Any other features that are currently SoundFX 2000-only
- Creative CMS emulation, if possible
- Tandy emulation, if possible
- PC Speaker emulation, if possible
- Redbook audio-Windows CD audio converter as supplied by Paul Gardinier
- MSCDEXNT rewrite to fix problems certain games have

Hmm, what else, what else...

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 4 of 22, by Nicht Sehr Gut

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Stiletto wrote:

Work with the author of GUSEMU (Tibor Schütz) to create an EmuGUS plugin for VDMS. Perhaps it could be distributed with VDMS, or perhaps with GUSEMU, or vice-versa.

I 2nd that motion.

Perhaps GUSEMU's source could be a starting point for Vlad or another programmer of VDMS to add a Win9x port of VDMS down the road.

Heh-heh. I can hear Vlad's blood pressure rising.

And of course -
- PC Speaker emulation, if possible


*cough*RealSound*cough*

Hmm, what else, what else...

Don't ask much do we?

Reply 5 of 22, by Snover

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Reduced granularity in SPEEDSET, which was supposed to have been done over Labour Day weekend..*cough*

Like I've said, I would have done it myself, except that MSVC++ seems to hate me and/or Vlad's code and refuses to open it.

Yes, it’s my fault.

Reply 6 of 22, by vladr

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SPEEDSET: I'm rewriting the bloody thing in assembly anyway, it's too big (14k) in C. I'm also shifting most responsibility over to the dll. INT21,4b (EXEC -- I think it was fn. 4b) gave me some trouble last weekend and still pisses me off because it clips the environment, but other than that it's coming along.

GUSEMU: it should work alonside VDMSound "as-is". IIRC GUSEmu is not "loadable" (think dosdrv.exe) like VDMSound, so if you start/install it, it becomes system-wide. As for GUSEMU being a starting point for a Win9x port for VDMSound, sure, but I still don't see the utility since Creative still provides "legacy" drivers for its cards (and most integrated sound chipsets have BIOS options to enable hardware emulation of SB-Pro on port 220 etc.).

PC-SPEAKER: people, forget about it! That's what DosBox is for. I'd rather finish my stupid cabling and the MT-32 emulator than work a single minute on PC-speaker emulation (it's almost as bad as the CLI2NOP "integrated" fix, which we all know hopw well it came around).

V.

Reply 7 of 22, by Nicht Sehr Gut

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vladr wrote:

SPEEDSET: I'm rewriting the bloody thing in assembly anyway, ...

Assembly?! Phbbt. Masochist.

GUSEMU: it should work alonside VDMSound "as-is". IIRC GUSEmu is not "loadable" (think dosdrv.exe) like VDMSound, so if you start/install it, it becomes system-wide.

If someone could just find a way for DosGames too "see" it...

As for GUSEMU being a starting point for a Win9x port for VDMSound, ...

Leave that for someone else who has too much free time on their hands...

PC-SPEAKER: people, forget about it!

Understood. Would be nice if _someone_ could come up with RealSound emulation, though.

Reply 8 of 22, by Harekiet

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Been giving Realsound some thought, won't be all that hard to implement i think, bit like i'm doing with SB DAC emulation now. Should actually sound better than realsound did, since there won't be constant background tone of the timer setting new speaker frequencies. Although people might complain then that it doesn't sound like the real thing 😜

Ha just added it, sounds quite amazing i have to say. I need some more games to test it with, but think i've got it right. Mach 3 intro sounds perfect.

Last edited by Harekiet on 2002-09-13, 19:42. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 10 of 22, by Harekiet

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Well the SB DAC like Realsound requires insane high timer frequencies, windows doesn't like emulating those. Although speedset can help with it. Dunno if Vlad already has support for the SB DAC, i think he focuses more on the parralel port sound emulation, since that has less overhead with fewer io requests.

Reply 11 of 22, by Stiletto

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Okay, Vlad. Here's the MAMEOPL stuff from MAME32, the last version that had it. (i.e. MAME32 v0.37b14). Well, this is from v0.37b13, but there were no changes AFAIK.

You can download that version's source of MAME32 here:
http://old.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?/classicg … e32s-037b13.zip

You can download the binary version here:
http://www.mame.dk/download/emu/mame32b-037b13.zip

And the DOS version source of that version:
http://www.mame.dk/download/emu/m37b13s.zip

And the DOS binary:
http://www.mame.dk/download/emu/m37b13b.zip

And here's the YM3812 drum samples MAME used to use:
http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/samples/wav/ym3812.zip

And the version of MAME that used the samples:
DOS Binary: http://www.mame.net/zips/mame034b.zip
DOS Source: http://www.mame.net/zips/mame034s.zip

Win32 Binary: http://old.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?classicga … mame32b-034.zip
Win32 Source: http://old.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?classicga … mame32s-034.zip

Attachments

  • Filename
    mameopl.zip
    File size
    56.39 KiB
    Downloads
    337 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 12 of 22, by Stiletto

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And here's the last version of the FM emulation with sample support, AFAIK. Or the first, at least.

Be sure to double-check the MAME license on all this.

Attachments

  • Filename
    mamesamp.zip
    File size
    51.91 KiB
    Downloads
    334 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 14 of 22, by Stiletto

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AFAIK Jarek's code was based on Tatsuyuki's code.

BUT...

IIRC, pre-Tatsuyuki, MAME used Carl-Henrik Skarstedt's emulation.

As for the samples, I may have made a mistake. It's possible that the arcade game "drivers" were loading the samples directly, rather than the old YM3812 emulation loading them. I forget, and it's really before my involvement in MAME.

I'll try to get a guru to look in here...

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 15 of 22, by Stiletto

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i.e. mameopl.zip was ripped by me out of MAME (DOS) and MAME32 v0.37b13.

mamesamp.zip was ripped by me out of MAME (DOS) and MAME32 v0.34.

No, it's not the OPL3/OPL4 source.

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 17 of 22, by Stiletto

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Here's what Jarek had to say, unedited (don't ask me why he didn't just post this):

>3. Create a different MAME-based Adlib plugin that >combines MAME's old emulation with the new one - >adding sample support for […]
Show full quote

>3. Create a different MAME-based Adlib plugin that
>combines MAME's old emulation with the new one -
>adding sample support for YM3812 drumset.

I don't really think that's the best idea - it'll confuse people, imho. Drum sounds are really FM generated and definitely can not be changed so I see no point in providing support for changing it ie improving over the chip.

>4. Add a feature that used to be in MAME - ym3812opl

I see that someone might like to use his old & rusty real ISA SoundBlaster 😉 but still I would add to this quote: "There is no control on the volume, however, and you need a real OPL chip for it to work" that "there is no control over the chip CLOCK" - this was a reason for some confusion and inaccuracy in hadware-based emulation (one needed to convert FNUMBER/BLOCK values written to the chip in order to compensate for clock difference - this leads to slightly different sound because of internal works in the chip)

> Vlad's lost in what I provided. I'm not sure what to
> tell him. I think I'm right, but I need someone a
> bit more familiar with the code than I am.

I can only guess why he is confused - it might be because now he has been told to support some old code which is known that has bugs in it.

Answer to Vlad's last question is that mameopl.zip is old Tatsuyuki's code - pre-my-rewrite.

Hope this helps.
Jarek

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 18 of 22, by Snover

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Speaking of confusion, how would sample-based drumsets confuse anyone? Maybe the programmers, but they should be smart enough to figure it out. It's not like end-users are going to need to decide on the drums. The more accurate to the real chipset the better, IMO, so if the old chipset supported sampled drums, or if the only way to get the drums sounding like the hardware is to do so (even temporarily), I say do it!

Yes, it’s my fault.

Reply 19 of 22, by vladr

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The OPL does not, to my knowledge, support sampled drumsets (or sampled anything, other than having a built-in DAC mode, but that's for something else and was only used in the AdLib Gold card, if ever). The old code, IIRC, had "guess" emulation of drums, whereas Jarek actually reverse-engineered the chip and, according to him, if you take a real chip and record, digitally, its output then compare it to the emulation's output, the two will be *identical*.

V.