you need to set the drv in resource.conf to adlib or something like that.
Collector should know.

Going by the GOG website, you have the original AGI version, not the remake. Original AGI interpreters do not support Adlib or SoundBlaster; but there is a patch/hack to add such support, although I think the result is mediocre, possibly because it lacks intelligent instrument choices.

I'm not sure what scummvm does for the game; it's not uncommon for it to have enhancements that weren't present in the original DOS game. One thing you can do with DOSBox is to set machine=tandy; that should give 3-voice music that is certainly better than the speaker.

Qbix wrote:

you need to set the drv in resource.conf to adlib or something like that.
Collector should know.

Unfortunately, there is no resource.conf with the GOG package. Can I create it manually? If so, do I put it in the DOSBox directory or the game directory?

ripsaw8080 wrote:

Going by the GOG website, you have the original AGI version, not the remake.

Remake? The game I'm working on is King's Quest II, not King's Quest I; the only remake I know of is the unofficial one from AGDI.

ripsaw8080 wrote:

Original AGI interpreters do not support Adlib or SoundBlaster; but there is a patch/hack to add such support, although I think the result is mediocre, possibly because it lacks intelligent instrument choices.

I would at least like to try, just to see what it sounds like. I won't likely know the difference between good and bad AdLib support unless it's really obvious.

ripsaw8080 wrote:

I'm not sure what scummvm does for the game; it's not uncommon for it to have enhancements that weren't present in the original DOS game. One thing you can do with DOSBox is to set machine=tandy; that should give 3-voice music that is certainly better than the speaker.

I did notices that ScummVM tends to "enhance" things, like not applying dithering and adding a mouse cursor to games that did not originally have one (like KQII). I was hoping that AdLib sound (assuming that's what I'm hearing) wasn't a tacked-on extra and was supported properly.

ripsaw8080 wrote:

One thing you can do with DOSBox is to set machine=tandy; that should give 3-voice music that is certainly better than the speaker.

Indeed; I did this and though it doesn't sound as good as what ScummVM did, it's a lot better than the single-sounds of the speaker. I would still like to see if I can get AdLib hacked in, though.

I've recorded the music from the opening in ScummVM and attached it to this post; perhaps you'll be able to tell if AdLib is what I'm hearing or not.

I did this and though it doesn't sound as good as what ScummVM did

DOSBox isn't about getting games as beautiful as possible, but to be able to
play them in their different incarnations on new systems. So if tandy3 sounded
bad on tandy systems (to your ears) that's what you'll get on DOSBox as well
bugs left aside.

The Adlib/SB hack is on collector's site here. Don't expect too much from it, and you're pretty much on your own when working with a hack.

wd wrote:

DOSBox isn't about getting games as beautiful as possible, but to be able to play them in their different incarnations on new sy […]
Show full quote

I did this and though it doesn't sound as good as what ScummVM did

DOSBox isn't about getting games as beautiful as possible, but to be able to
play them in their different incarnations on new systems. So if tandy3 sounded
bad on tandy systems (to your ears) that's what you'll get on DOSBox as well
bugs left aside.

I understand that, I just want to play with the best incarnation possible. In other words, since Tandy produces better sound than the PC speaker, I would rather use Tandy. Since using ddraw for output instead of surface allows fullscreen to not look like someone spilled paint all over the world, I'll be using it. I don't want to bend it beyond what was available at the time (even though I want to play with the AdLib hack anyway), just get it into a configuration that represents the best way it could have been experienced on the systems it was made for.

ripsaw8080 wrote:

The Adlib/SB hack is on collector's site here. Don't expect too much from it, and you're pretty much on your own when working with a hack.

Understood; thanks. 😀

My understanding is that Sierra composed 3-voice Tandy (3 independent square wave channels) soundtracks for their AGI games, and that non-Tandy PCs strip that down to one channel. ScummVM is probably playing the 3-voice Tandy soundtrack, possibly in a way that sounds nicer than real Tandy hardware.

DOSBox can emulate Tandy, so you might try that. There are also hacks that can patch AGI games to output music as square wave notes on OPL or MPU-401 synths, which is a nice alternative for systems that would otherwise be limited to single-voice PC speaker sounds. It's likely that ScummVM is going to sound the most "fancy" in any case, though.

HunterZ wrote:

My understanding is that Sierra composed 3-voice Tandy (3 independent square wave channels) soundtracks for their AGI games, and that non-Tandy PCs strip that down to one channel. ScummVM is probably playing the 3-voice Tandy soundtrack, possibly in a way that sounds nicer than real Tandy hardware.

I would be surprised if that's all it's doing; I've compared the 3-voice Tandy in DOSBox to the music in ScummVM and noticed that the tempo is slower in ScummVM, and I wouldn't think that reinterpreting the music could alter the tempo (can it?).

HunterZ wrote:

There are also hacks that can patch AGI games to output music as square wave notes on OPL or MPU-401 synths, which is a nice alternative for systems that would otherwise be limited to single-voice PC speaker sounds. It's likely that ScummVM is going to sound the most "fancy" in any case, though.

I tried to use the AdLib hack, but it caused the game to ask for Disk 2, which it shouldn't since it's the GOG package, so that option is out. I would try these other hacks you mentioned, but don't they require a hardware synthesizer? I don't own one of those.

All you need to do is set machine=tandy in the dosbox.conf to get Tandy sound with the AGI games in DOSBox. The AGI music in ScummVM is not very accurate, but has been greatly improved since that last version or so.

Enchantermon wrote:

I would be surprised if that's all it's doing; I've compared the 3-voice Tandy in DOSBox to the music in ScummVM and noticed that the tempo is slower in ScummVM, and I wouldn't think that reinterpreting the music could alter the tempo (can it?).

Could be a ScummVM or DOSBox timing issue. Either one could be playing back the music at the wrong speed for various reasons, so it's hard to say which one is wrong without comparing to the tempo on a real period-appropriate system (more likely SCUMMVM is wrong though since its AGI support is new).

I tried to use the AdLib hack, but it caused the game to ask for Disk 2, which it shouldn't since it's the GOG package, so that option is out. I would try these other hacks you mentioned, but don't they require a hardware synthesizer? I don't own one of those.

Correct, and they probably patch the game in the same way anyways which would likely cause the same Disk 2 issue.

I don't know why you're getting a request for another disk, because it works for me with KQ2. Maybe GOG left out some files that they considered unnecessary. The AGISB archive has an archive within it containing a set of AGI files compatible with the patch that you could try instead of whatever GOG included. At any rate, the OPL music with the patch uses a simple instrument, while scummvm uses a more complex one.

more likely SCUMMVM is wrong though since its AGI support is new

Its SCI support is new, its AGI support is not.

collector wrote:

All you need to do is set machine=tandy in the dosbox.conf to get Tandy sound with the AGI games in DOSBox. The AGI music in ScummVM is not very accurate, but has been greatly improved since that last version or so.

As I mentioned in my second post, I already did this, and it was certainly better than just the PC speaker, though not as good as what ScummVM played, which I recorded and attached to that post.

HunterZ wrote:

Enchantermon wrote:

I would be surprised if that's all it's doing; I've compared the 3-voice Tandy in DOSBox to the music in ScummVM and noticed that the tempo is slower in ScummVM, and I wouldn't think that reinterpreting the music could alter the tempo (can it?).

Could be a ScummVM or DOSBox timing issue. Either one could be playing back the music at the wrong speed for various reasons, so it's hard to say which one is wrong without comparing to the tempo on a real period-appropriate system (more likely SCUMMVM is wrong though since its AGI support is new).

But if the timing was off, wouldn't the pitch also be changed? It doesn't sound like it is, at least to me. Or can you change the rate at which the notes play back without distorting the music?

ripsaw8080 wrote:

I don't know why you're getting a request for another disk, because it works for me with KQ2. Maybe GOG left out some files that they considered unnecessary. The AGISB archive has an archive within it containing a set of AGI files compatible with the patch that you could try instead of whatever GOG included.

I did try the archive; that's when I got the Disk 2 error. Just running the exe produced an error saying that the AGI interpreter's version was too old.

EDIT: The 2006 Vivendi King's Quest collection does the same thing.

Enchantermon wrote:

Or can you change the rate at which the notes play back without distorting the music?

You can absolutely change tempo independently of pitch if you're the one synthesizing the output sound in the first place. Think of ScummVM as a musician, the game as sheet music, and your sound card as a piano.

Pitch versus tempo is only an issue with pre-recorded sound samples, which (1) doesn't apply here, and (2) is still possible to get around to some extent.

Enchantermon wrote:

collector wrote:

All you need to do is set machine=tandy in the dosbox.conf to get Tandy sound with the AGI games in DOSBox. The AGI music in ScummVM is not very accurate, but has been greatly improved since that last version or so.

As I mentioned in my second post, I already did this, and it was certainly better than just the PC speaker, though not as good as what ScummVM played, which I recorded and attached to that post.

As I said the ScummVM emulation is inaccurate, lower pitched using a saw wave/electric piano sound instead of the Tandy sound. This was inherited from the old Sarien project that ScummVM absorbed to add AGI support. I believe, it was from Sarien's attempt to use Amiga sound, not Ad-Lib. This should have be fixed with around the 1.1.0 release. If you are still getting this sound as in your sample, you may have something set globally with ScummVM.

KQ1 was he first game designed for the PC Jr., so the sound was designed for that platform and is why it works well with Tandy. Besides, the AGI games had no AdLib support, so you are asking DOSBox to support something that doesn't exist. Sierra didn't add Ad-Lib support until its next engine, SCI with the release of KQ4. If you really want to have that sound, I would recommend that you just use ScummVM to play the game.

PS, the hack to add MIDI to AGI games modifies the AGI file, which is why you are getting the errors.

If you really want to hear authentic, impressive music from the AGI games, try the Apple IIgs versions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puof3EErVYw

HunterZ wrote:

Enchantermon wrote:

Or can you change the rate at which the notes play back without distorting the music?

You can absolutely change tempo independently of pitch if you're the one synthesizing the output sound in the first place. Think of ScummVM as a musician, the game as sheet music, and your sound card as a piano.

Pitch versus tempo is only an issue with pre-recorded sound samples, which (1) doesn't apply here, and (2) is still possible to get around to some extent.

Ah, okay. See, again, I didn't know any of this; I had no idea about how music works in older games, though with the musician analogy, now I sort of understand.

collector wrote:

As I said the ScummVM emulation is inaccurate, lower pitched using a saw wave/electric piano sound instead of the Tandy sound. This was inherited from the old Sarien project that ScummVM absorbed to add AGI support. I believe, it was from Sarien's attempt to use Amiga sound, not Ad-Lib. This should have be fixed with around the 1.1.0 release. If you are still getting this sound as in your sample, you may have something set globally with ScummVM.

I think I see now what happened. Playing around with it more, I noticed that by default in ScummVM I do hear the Tandy sound. It's a little different, but mostly the same. I must have set it to use AdLib at some point before even starting the game and had forgotten about it.

collector wrote:

KQ1 was he first game designed for the PC Jr., so the sound was designed for that platform and is why it works well with Tandy. Besides, the AGI games had no AdLib support, so you are asking DOSBox to support something that doesn't exist. Sierra didn't add Ad-Lib support until its next engine, SCI with the release of KQ4. If you really want to have that sound, I would recommend that you just use ScummVM to play the game.

If the AGI games didn't originally support AdLib, then that seals it; I'm going for authenticity, not perfection. I also see that ripsaw8080 said the same thing earlier and somehow I misunderstood it, thinking that it was an emulation issue and not an issue with the game.

collector wrote:

PS, the hack to add MIDI to AGI games modifies the AGI file, which is why you are getting the errors.

Yeah, I noticed in the readme and on the site that it modified the file, but I didn't think it would mess it up to that point.

Great Hierophant wrote:

If you really want to hear authentic, impressive music from the AGI games, try the Apple IIgs versions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puof3EErVYw

Wow, that's really awesome, especially for something so old.

Anyway, I'm going to stick with the Tandy 3-voice, since it seems to provide the best quality sound without trying to emulate something that wasn't available at the time the game was made. Thanks guys! You've all been a great help, and I appreciate it! 😀

Having had little experience with the Apple IIgs, that KQ1 video has much better quality music than I would have expected. Also interesting that the intro theme is different from the PC version.