Ace wrote:

So, to reiterate my question from the thread's title: are there any other wavesets that could work on an Ensoniq AudioPCI aside from the 2MB, 4MB and 8MB wavesets?

I'm a bit limited in my knowledge of these cards, but my/the Sound Blaster Live! uses the exact same waveset(s) for it's DOS MIDI music playback, as well as for it's Windows "SBLive! Software Synth".

AFAIK, those three wavesets were the *ONLY* ones that were ever released, and AFAIK there are NO homebrew ones available at all.

(edit) P.S. About the only site on the Internet with info about the Ensoniq "ECW" wavesets -> http://www.johnnengelmann.com/technology/ecw/index.php

AFAIK The 8MB waveset is as good as it gets.

Seeing that the AudioPCI is one of the few (only?) cards that work under DOS on ISAless machines (giving you SB16 and GM) I have no complaints.

If you have ISA slots, well then you might as well go for a "real" Ensoniq or Roland device...

Little correction for you, Mau1wurf: the Ensoniq AudioPCI is NOT SoundBlaster 16-compatible. It's only compatible up to the SoundBlaster Pro(with reversed Stereo like most SoundBlaster Pro-compatible sound cards I've seen), but it does have support for the Ensoniq SoundScape(I'm using Ensoniq's drivers). Since I have both the 2MB and 4MB sets, I'll listen in to the 4MB waveset and see how good it sounds(Doom sounds better with the 4MB waveset judging by your recording of Doom you made for Swaaye on your AudioPCI).

Now, I did see that website and have managed to decompile the 2MB waveset, however, I have no clue how I'm supposed to recompile the file. I would like to use the instrument set from the original SoundScape if it's at all possible to recompile those ECW wavesets.

Ooops my bad 😀

The only 2 recordings I made where Doom Level 1 and also Dark Forces. Dark Forces sounds good on pretty much any wavetable card I found. Doom on the other hand sound totally different on every wavetable card 🤣

Maybe to do with choice of instruments, I don't know. But with Doom I can right away tell if it's not a Roland, whereas with Dark Forces they all sound great...

There was a fourth waveset, besides the well known 2,4 and 8 MB ones. I slightly prefered it over the others; 2MG4.ECW
Nothing fancy though.

How does that waveset compare to the older SoundScape?

No idea. I don't have any soundscape card other then the cheap Creative 128 PCI.

Does that thing have an Ensoniq ES137x chipset? I know the AudioPCI-based SoundBlasters like my Vibra128 are not SoundScape compatible, but they do have SoundBlaster 16 compatibility, something the Ensoniq AudioPCI doesn't have.

There's a recording on Swaaye's sound card recording page of various games on several different SoundScape models. You might want to check that out(you'll find the link in his signature and in the thread "Sound Card Recordings".

ES137x yes. SB16 compatible yes, Not SoundScape compatible, the original AudioPCI dos drivers will not work with this one. Allthough it would have been easy for Creative to retain SoundScape compatibility, as an option.

Yes the wavetable comparison. 2MG4 has similarities to the 2MB ECW set. but 2MG4 behaves better when playing the Dune 2 music. 2MG4 does not match any real soundscape, except maybe the elite in some degree.

Testing it with my Soundblaster Live! software synth in windows.

I found the ECW is stored here, it is the one of 2,9 MB:
http://filekeeper.org/download/sf2/ECW

Ace wrote:

Does that thing have an Ensoniq ES137x chipset? I know the AudioPCI-based SoundBlasters like my Vibra128 are not SoundScape compatible, but they do have SoundBlaster 16 compatibility, something the Ensoniq AudioPCI doesn't have.

Ok now I'm confused...

I have a few AudioPCI cards (the ones with just the sticker being different). When you say "SoundScape compatible", what do you mean?

The software I use are the DOS drivers from the MAME website. Are these from Creative or Ensoniq?

These DOS emulation drivers were originally written for ensoniq, then ensoniq was bought by creative and the emulation driver was soon adjusted to erase all references to the soundscapes, and do SB16 instead.
See the AudioPCI wikipedia.

Thanks!

Tt looks like the drivers on the MAME website are the Creative ones. Because the SBPCI.INI file has a reference to high DMA 5 which is for SB16...

Question: Do you have the original AudioPCI drivers from Ensoniq?

What would these drivers allow me to do that won't work with the Creative drivers? I don't know what "SoundScape compatible" means. Please elaborate!

"SoundScape compatible" essentially means backwards compatibility with the Ensoniq SoundScape. Only Ensoniq's drivers allow that(for both SoundScape MIDI using Ensoniq's ECW wavesets and for SoundScape digital sound); Creative only uses the SoundScape stuff for General MIDI and for the "simulated FM Synthesis."

Ok thanks!

And how do they compare? What's your opionion on a AudioPCI in "SoundScape mode" compared to a real SoundScape?

And do you have these drivers? Would love to give them a spin...

I've got the Windows 95 drivers for the AudioPCI, but I do believe DOS drivers are installed as well. I'll have to check on my DOS test box to see if DOS drivers were installed.

In "SoundScape mode," if you use the 2MB waveset, it kinda sounds like a modified version of the SoundScape Elite's instrument set. The 4MB waveset sounds radically different, but I did try the Collector's CD-ROM editions of TIE Fighter and X-Wing, and both work perfectly using SoundScape music and sound effects(the sound effects are very clear and very bass-heavy on the AudioPCI using the SoundScape option for sound effects). Although I do find the SoundScape support to be rather pointless(were there any games written ONLY for the SoundScape?) since Creative uses the exact same wavesets as the AudioPCI in the SoundBlaster Live!, SoundBlaster Audigy and any AudioPCI-based SoundBlaster sound card, it is a nice bonus, and I must say, I kinda consider the AudioPCI to be a PCI-based SoundScape. If you think about it, that's what it is: a modified SoundScape Elite made for the PCI bus since the default 2MB waveset sounds very similar to the SoundScape Elite, which I think has the best sound of all the old SoundScapes). Since I don't have a real SoundScape, I'm going by the recordings on Swaaye's Sound Card Recordings page, and I can definitely say the Ensoniq AudioPCI sounds very similar to the Ensoniq SoundScape Elite using the 2MB waveset and sounds like a whole new SoundScape using the 4MB waveset.

Excellent post, thanks!

Mau1wurf, I think my AudioPCI drivers will not work with your particular AudioPCI. Your AudioPCI is an ES1373, which is newer than mine(I've got the original ES1370 AudioPCI). I don't think the drivers I have work with any other AudioPCI except for the ES1370. Again, I need to have a look at my drivers to make sure. By the way, do you still have that AudioPCI?

The AudioPCI has samples that sound like the same recordings as used in the Elite's patch set, but they sound a lot better on the Elite. The AudioPCI can only play MIDI samples at 22khz, whereas the Elite runs higher than that (likely 44.1 kHz). There are more details about the shortcomings of AudioPCI on the below site.
http://www.johnnengelmann.com/technology/ecw/index.php

I think that AudioPCI is best considered a soft-synth version of the Ensoniq MIDI synthesizers. It was designed to run at reasonable CPU usage levels on a Pentium MMX CPU, and obviously that was a serious limitation.

The Elite's DSP is also vastly superior if you play with the FX Toolkit. It's very programmable, not unlike what you can do with SB Live!. It's too bad that the effects processor never got a quality config program.

Also, whether the Elite sounds better than the original Soundscape patch set depends on the game. The Elite has way more punchy percussion that can overwhelm some soundtracks while sounding awesome in others. Some of the other instruments range from weaker to stronger too.

I agree that not even the 8MB wavefonts sounded as nice as your SoundScape recordings...