VOGONS


First post, by makomea

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Hello!

This is my first thread/post here. I have been using dosbox for a very long time now with no issues. Everything has been pretty straight forward and brings me back to my childhood. I have recently started playing some Interactive fiction games from Infocom. To let you know up front, my issue isn't with the game its self, I am only giving an example here. There is a game I am playing and I simply do not have the time to draw out maps and such with pen and paper any more. There is a program that I recently downloaded called "Trizbort ". What this does is to allow the program to "Automap" the game for me using transcripts from an interpreter. This is where I am having my one and only issue with Dosbox. In Planetfall or even Zork or any other game there is a command called "Script" to start utilizing the transcript. As soon as I type the command ">Script", Dosbox will instantly crash. To my knowledge I have never used any interpreters or transcripts (In all honesty I don't really know what they are) in MSDOS, nor in Dosbox to play or run any application. If you guys would be so kind to help me out with learning how to transcript with dosbox so I can use the auto mapping, I would be most grateful. The Trizbort program seems pretty straightforward, the only thing I need to learn is what interpreters and transcripts really are and how to use them with Dosbox so I can send the script to Trizbort in order to start auto mapping.

Thank you very much for any advice and any of your time in helping me to resolve this!

I apologize if my request is one of the following: 1.) If this request isn't legible due to my lack of information about the issue. 2.) if the request is against the rules in some way or another. 3.) if this is the wrong area of the forum to post the question is it is kinda about dosbox it's self, about a type of game/application, and about the ability to use a 3rd party program regarding transcripting/scripting with dosbox. (maybe?)

Added information:
I am using Dosbox 0.74
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
PC hardware shouldn't cause the crash to my knowledge

Reply 1 of 6, by ripsaw8080

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I guess this Trizbort program is trying to capture printer output (that's where SCRIPT text goes), but it may not be functioning correctly due to lack of printing support in official DOSBox.

You can try the MB6 or SVN Daum builds of DOSBox that have printing support. They at least have a better chance of working with the program you're using.

http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/SVN_Builds

Reply 2 of 6, by makomea

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Thank you for the response Ripsaw! When you say that Trizbort is trying to capture printer output, what do you mean? Are you saying that Dosbox is having trouble sending the script to my printer so it can literally print the transcript on paper with ink, or are you saying that Dosbox is having an issue in regards to copying the text that I input and the text of the game its self to a document in order for Trizbort to read it and thus create a map with the given information? I have no idea what they are really talking about here. Here is an example from the Trizbort help section in regaurds to automapping: Using Automapping

Using Automapping:
Automapping allows you to automatically generate a map given the transcript from a game. In many cases, Trizbort can do this live, whilst you're playing the game, and you can edit and adjust the map whilst it does so.

Transcripts:
Most interactive fiction interpreters support the creation of transcripts. A transcript is a text file which contains everything you typed whilst playing the game along with all of the game's responses.
As an example they gave this from Zork!:

>SCRIPT
Here begins a transcript of interaction with

ZORK I: The Great Underground Empire
Copyright (c) 1981, 1982, 1983 Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved.
ZORK is a registered trademark of Infocom, Inc.
Revision 88 / Serial number 840726

>LOOK
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front
door.
There is a small mailbox here.

>GO NORTHEAST
North of House
You are facing the north side of a white house. There is no door here, and all
the windows are boarded up. To the north a narrow path winds through the trees.

>ZORK
At your service!

Here is where I am conrfused, is Dosbox the interpreter? is there a built in Interpreter in Zork? It also goes on to list compatible interpreters such as:
"Interpreter Compatibility:
Windows Frotz, Gargoyle, Glulxe and Git are all fully compatible with live automapping. Nitfol is compatible though new rooms and objects may not appear on the map for a few turns. Filfre is not currently compatible with live automapping, though its transcripts can still be used for automapping once the game session is over."

So I don't know if the "Interpreter" is Dosbox, in dosbox, or if it is in the game its self, or if the interpreter is another program used to emulate Zork! or planetfall that also simultaneously makes a transcript. On this particular subject matter I am completely unfamiliar with the terms, the jargon, and their functionality. I hope that information I gave you is useful in explaining my dilemma better. I will try to use the MB6 and SNV Daum builds of Dosbox as you have suggested, but even then I dont think i would know how to give the transcript to Trizbort. I am sorry if I am also complicating this whole subject. Sometimes I can turn the simplest subject into a ridiculously hard concept by over-thinking the subject matter and being confused on useless information.

Also if it will help better make sense of the subject matter here is a link to the Trizbort site its self. It would be more informative to you guys that are more familiar with what I need to use Dosbox to play a game and send a transcript from an interpreter (What ever an interpreter is) to trizbort in order to create a map of the game as I go:
http://trizbort.genstein.net/

Reply 3 of 6, by ripsaw8080

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DOSBox is a PC emulator focused on DOS games. An interpreter, in this use of the term, is a program that interprets game data. You can run interpreter programs made for DOS in DOSBox. In the case of original Infocom games, the interpreter program file would be something like BALLYHOO.COM and the related game data file would be BALLYHOO.DAT.

Keep in mind that Infocom games were originally released in the 1980's where disk space was scarce, and one could not afford to dump large text files to disk, thus the original Infocom intepreters sent SCRIPT output to the printer. However, alternative interpreters, such as Frotz, were developed later in the 1990's when disk space was more plentiful, and capturing to a text file was feasible.

Reply 4 of 6, by makomea

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Interesting! That sums up a lot of information I was lacking on the entire subject! I really appreciate the help Ripsaw! However it appears that the main issue isn't resolved and may never be. From what I have read, the Windows Frotz you used as an example that mirrors the functionality of other "interpreters" seems to only be used in conjunction with playing z-code or z-machine type games and thus is able to also record a live transcript in which Trizbort would be able to automatically create maps based off of the given information from the >VERBOSE and >LOOK commands. I am still a little fuzzy on some other certain details but I think I understand the most of it. Only games that are z-coded would be useable in frotz, where Frotz emulates games and also dumps the data in such a way that Trizbort can read it. Frotz being one of a few other interpreters that are compatible with Trizbort. So unless there is a way to play Zork or Planetfall on Dosbox, script the data to Frotz, and then from there to Trizbort, it looks like I will be stuck with pen and paper when mapping out non "Z-code" type games. I really appreciate all of your information you gave me Ripsaw!

If you or anyone else knows of a way to use Dosbox to play an Interactive Fiction game in conjunction with another program that can aid in the creation of maps, I would be most appreciative! I know that there are maps of almost ALL Infocom games such as Zork and Planetfall already laid out, but those are major spoiler alerts. Even though I have owned and played these games many years ago, I have basically forgotten all game content and I would like to rediscover them without the hassle of graphing paper and pencils. I would prefer the Automated Mapping ability of what ever program, but I would be just as happy with a type of mapping program that would act as a substitute for Graph paper and pens that way I can keep sectors, cardinal directions and sector content organized and easily accessible without having to flip through page after page of paper and running out of space to keep the maps neat and organized. Running out of room on paper was always the worst for me 🤣!

Reply 5 of 6, by ripsaw8080

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There actually is a version of Frotz for DOS that you can run in DOSBox. Dunno if Trizbort can work with that version, though.

I do understand the convenience of auto-mapping, but the idea of having it in an Infocom game seems to me like putting a GPS navigation system in a Model-T Ford. ;)

Reply 6 of 6, by makomea

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🤣!!! I copy that!

I have actually figured out how to use Frotz to open INFOCOM games, thus being able to make a transcript to send to Trizbort. That has made life a bit easier in regards to my interactive fiction re-addiction. However, I am still a fanboy for DOSBox 0.74 and would like a one stop solution to all my antiquated MSDOS proggy needs. There may be a simple command I am missing to properly save a real-time transcript of the game while in Dosbox, or like you said needing to use a 3rd party interpreter while in Dosbox to "Print" the text to Trizbort. Either way, I have learned a lot today and enjoyed doing it! Once again I appreciate all of the help and suggestions! Now that I am familiarized with the subject matter and its concepts, I may be able to figure a way out to use Dosbox Exclusively in conjunction with Map Making software and Post it somewhere on the forums. Like your underlining point with the GPS in a Model-T Ford, playing an interactive fiction game isn't just the functionality of the game, its the experience. Though Frotz offers a streamlined UI and "Better" graphics, I still prefer the old black and white jagged letters of MSDOS and yes, the whole ritual of penning out the maps on graphing paper gets one more involved and immersed in the game. For now, I am loving my little GPS system, but unlike TomTom, Trizbort doesn't let me know what is around the next corner nor where the closest food mart is, It discovers as I do and keeps my carpal tunnel infested hands from the agony of that which is analogue penmanship. 🤣!

Best Wishes Ripsaw! Look forward to harassing you for assistance in the future!