VOGONS


My Ultimate Windows 98 Machine

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First post, by maximus

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Hi, all! I'm new to the forums, so I guess I'll show off my current project as an introduction. Pics first:

YWoFXtdi.jpg M94ukA2S.jpg

The goal of this build is to get a nice balance of performance and compatibility with Windows 95 / 98 games. DOS compatibility is a plus but not required. Full specs:

Antec Performance II SX630II ATX Case
Antec SL350 350W ATX PSU
ASUS TUSL2-C
Pentium III 1400S (SL6BY)
256 MB PC133 SDRAM
20 GB HDD
Hercules 3D Prophet 4500 (Kyro II)
Sound Blaster PCI 128
Iomega DVD+RW

It's a work in progress, but it's coming along very well. Setup was a breeze, and performance is already phenomenal. It's not finished, though. I have the following upgrades lined up:

Geforce 2 Ultra - already bought, haven't had time to set it up.
Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 SB0060 - ditto
40 GB Hitachi HDD - ditto
2x256 MB Kingston PC-133 SDRAM - because one 256 MB module is a little skimpy.

I own a couple of retro rigs, but this is the first one I've built using choice parts (as opposed to stuff I had lying around). I'm really blown away by the quality of the case, the stability of the TUSL2-C, and the performance of the PIII 1400S (beats my P4 1.8 by a wide margin in most benchmarks).

Any questions / comments / suggestions?

Last edited by maximus on 2016-12-01, 02:11. Edited 2 times in total.

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Reply 1 of 22, by badmojo

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Very nice indeed! I have 2xVoodoo2's in my PIII machine and they come in handy from time to time, have you considered adding some? I use a Geforce 2 Ultra too, but it's good to have a Glide option too.

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Reply 2 of 22, by maximus

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A pair of Voodoo2's is definitely on my long-term wish list. So far, though, I can't bring myself to blow $100+ on an exotic GPU configuration, especially when its functionality is mostly duplicated by stuff I already own. I'm keeping my eyes peeled for good deals, though. I've also considered settling for a Voodoo3 for the time being.

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Reply 3 of 22, by badmojo

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maximus wrote:

A pair of Voodoo2's is definitely on my long-term wish list. So far, though, I can't bring myself to blow $100+ on an exotic GPU configuration, especially when its functionality is mostly duplicated by stuff I already own. I'm keeping my eyes peeled for good deals, though. I've also considered settling for a Voodoo3 for the time being.

Fair enough. If you're not in a hurry then you can get some very good deals on Voodoo2's. I've seen several listed on Ebay as a 'PCI VGA card' and then they go for a few bucks. You don't need matched ones anymore either, the latest drivers can handle 2 different brands, and even differing amounts of memory.

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Reply 4 of 22, by maximus

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badmojo wrote:

Fair enough. If you're not in a hurry then you can get some very good deals on Voodoo2's. I've seen several listed on Ebay as a 'PCI VGA card' and then they go for a few bucks. You don't need matched ones anymore either, the latest drivers can handle 2 different brands, and even differing amounts of memory.

That's good to know. I always assumed the cards would have to be identical.

Say, you mentioned having a GF2 Ultra as well... any suggestions on which drivers to use? I've had some trouble in the past with Nvidia drivers from that period. I'm planning on trying the 30.82s this time around. (WHQL'd and well-received at the time)

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Reply 5 of 22, by badmojo

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I use 45.23 with my Ultra, based on some advice I picked up along the way somewhere. Never had a problem with them.

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Reply 6 of 22, by soviet conscript

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I used to use a geforce 2 ultra as well in my 98 machine but updated to a geforce 4.

Reply 7 of 22, by Private_Ops

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Is that one of those Rosewill coolers from newegg?

Reply 8 of 22, by maximus

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Private_Ops wrote:

Is that one of those Rosewill coolers from newegg?

Yes, it's this one. I actually bought two of these. The other one is undergoing a long-term stress test in my Socket A SETI@home rig (100% CPU utilization 24/7). So far, so good! Probably an overkill for the PIII, but it's nice and quiet.

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Reply 9 of 22, by maximus

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badmojo wrote:

I use 45.23 with my Ultra, based on some advice I picked up along the way somewhere. Never had a problem with them.

I've heard good things about those as well. Guess I'll give them a try. Thanks!

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Reply 10 of 22, by RacoonRider

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Voodoo 2 12Mb for less then $10. http://pc-1.ru/i_shop/video/pci/A029492
More than 1700 in stock! The only thing you need is to find someone in Moscow who will send this abroad. I would be happy to help, however, there's 2700 km between me and the shop 😁

Reply 11 of 22, by Darkman

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thats a pretty kickass machine, I really like the case.

I wonder if a Geforce3 or 4 would be a better choice for that CPU , in my mind a GF2 is better for a 600-1Ghz CPU, some of the later DX8 games could really benefit from that.

Reply 12 of 22, by maximus

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Darkman wrote:

thats a pretty kickass machine, I really like the case.

Thanks!

Darkman wrote:

I wonder if a Geforce3 or 4 would be a better choice for that CPU , in my mind a GF2 is better for a 600-1Ghz CPU, some of the later DX8 games could really benefit from that.

Agreed, the Geforce2 and PIII 1400S are mismatched. However, I like my retro rigs to be CPU-heavy so that the GPUs are really "maxed-out," if that makes sense.

Also, most (all?) DX8 games are designed for XP and run just fine on newer hardware. I'm building this machine specifically for old-school, pre-XP, pre-DX8 games which tend to be more picky. (Not that a Ti 4600 wouldn't kick ass with those games, though.)

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Reply 13 of 22, by soviet conscript

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RacoonRider wrote:

Voodoo 2 12Mb for less then $10. http://pc-1.ru/i_shop/video/pci/A029492
More than 1700 in stock! The only thing you need is to find someone in Moscow who will send this abroad. I would be happy to help, however, there's 2700 km between me and the shop 😁

it says its the 12mb version but in the image there are no ram chips on the back of the card. I thought all 12mb voodoo's had ram on the backside of the card? or maybe its just an old stock image?

as for the Geforce 2, Its a good card and if you want the card maxed out that's cool but if incompatibility is holding you back I don't think there's any game that would run on a GF2 that wouldn't on a GF4 at least as far as I could find from experience and research. its the cards after the GF4 that are rumored to start having issues with older stuff.

Reply 14 of 22, by Darkman

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maximus wrote:
Thanks! […]
Show full quote
Darkman wrote:

thats a pretty kickass machine, I really like the case.

Thanks!

Darkman wrote:

I wonder if a Geforce3 or 4 would be a better choice for that CPU , in my mind a GF2 is better for a 600-1Ghz CPU, some of the later DX8 games could really benefit from that.

Agreed, the Geforce2 and PIII 1400S are mismatched. However, I like my retro rigs to be CPU-heavy so that the GPUs are really "maxed-out," if that makes sense.

Also, most (all?) DX8 games are designed for XP and run just fine on newer hardware. I'm building this machine specifically for old-school, pre-XP, pre-DX8 games which tend to be more picky. (Not that a Ti 4600 wouldn't kick ass with those games, though.)

yes and no , most will work but a few have issues, for instance 2 games Ive noticed problems on are Mafia (alot of flickering, and shadows) , and Deus EX IW (wouldn't even start until I got it to work via a hack , not a pleasant experience) , also Max Payne 1 and 2 also refused to start up at all and it seems to be a driver issue.

now it might be due to me using a Radeon 6870 (yes I know, Im due for an upgrade soon), but some games still have their issues.

its not absolutely necessary though , the kind of games that really benefit from a Geforce 4 would also be the kind of games that benefit from a 2Ghz+ Athlon XP (Doom 3 for instance)

Reply 15 of 22, by Firtasik

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Darkman wrote:

Max Payne 1 and 2 also refused to start up at all and it seems to be a driver issue.

I had the same problem. Completely reinstall the driver (you can use Display Driver Uninstaller 9.9). It should resolve this issue.

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Reply 16 of 22, by Darkman

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I eventually got Max Payne 2 to work by simply waiting for newer drivers (although sometimes new drivers fix older issues while creating new ones obviously) , but Max 1 still has issues.

fortunately my Win98 machine has the horsepower to run Max Payne smoothly at high settings and res, so its ok on that front.

Reply 17 of 22, by maximus

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Darkman wrote:

now it might be due to me using a Radeon 6870

Ah... when I said "newer hardware," I was thinking more along the lines of my Radeon X850 XT PE 😁 (Incidentally, even that card has issues with Max Payne 1.)

I guess I've given up on gaming with truly modern hardware, to be honest. It got to be such a pain in the post-DX10 years, mostly because of driver issues like the ones you mentioned.

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Reply 18 of 22, by Private_Ops

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maximus wrote:
Private_Ops wrote:

Is that one of those Rosewill coolers from newegg?

Yes, it's this one. I actually bought two of these. The other one is undergoing a long-term stress test in my Socket A SETI@home rig (100% CPU utilization 24/7). So far, so good! Probably an overkill for the PIII, but it's nice and quiet.

Awesome. I've got an Athlon XP (w/board) that should be in the mail to me in a few days. Was wanting a new cooler for it.

What speed Athlon is in your socket A?

Reply 19 of 22, by maximus

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Private_Ops wrote:

Awesome. I've got an Athlon XP (w/board) that should be in the mail to me in a few days. Was wanting a new cooler for it.

What speed Athlon is in your socket A?

It's actually a Sempron 3000+.The system is a cheapo Compaq Presario, which is why I don't feel bad about slowly killing it with SETI@home. It's not a bad system, though. I think the motherboard is a neutered ASUS, and the CPU is reasonably fast.

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