How many amps does this provide on the +5V rail? Can't really tell from the picture.

F2bnp wrote:

How many amps does this provide on the +5V rail? Can't really tell from the picture.

Here is the full size picture: http://imgur.com/ualsLDE.jpg

15A @5V

18A @ 12V

30A @ 3.3V

Ouch. 15A on 5V is too low I think. I believe 30AMPs are the recommended minimum for highspeed Athlon XPs...
You could give it a try though... Dual Tualatin will stress it too I think.

F2bnp wrote:

Ouch. 15A on 5V is too low I think. I believe 30AMPs are the recommended minimum for highspeed Athlon XPs...
You could give it a try though... Dual Tualatin will stress it too I think.

Looks like it...

These systems originally came with Dual Slot1/S370 850 up to 1000 P3 Coppermine processors. Tualatin is built on a smaller manufacturing process and runs at 1.45-1.5v. No chance it will be enough for that?

Not all Athlon boards are designed around 5v. They started to switch over to 12v in 2000-2001. What is the motherboard?

Are you sure about that? I've seen conflicting evidence and talks around the web...

AFAIK it depends on if the motherboard is ATX or ATX 1.0 compliant (with the extra P4 connector); later AthlonXP boards absolutely have the additional +12V plug like a P4, and need a strong 12V rail (not the 100A of modern systems, but more than 4-5A certainly). Usually (IME) high-end PSUs from around that era tended to provide ~30A on 5V, and ~20A on 12V, and that should be fine for an AthlonXP.

However, if I remember right AAlchemy itself requires VERY high amperage (if I remember right it's something like 70-100A) on a +2.9V rail that you will not find on a normal PSU.

The motherboard is an Abit NF7-S 2.0 that has the extra 4-pin cpu Power connector.

Indeed, I plan to run two 8264 cards in SLI (8464DB setup) in a near future and using the original psu is the only option I have

I looked up the NF7-S manual and Abit recommends a 350W PSU with 20A 5v and 2A 5vsb in a top end configuration.

The Q3D PSU, according to Dodge Garage 3dfx, outputs 15A on 5V and 18A on 12V.

See this page for more:
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/q3d_aalchemy.htm

Also remember - Quantum3D AAlchemy isn't about insane fillrates, it's about insane AA levels.

Question of the day regarding this setup though:

Does the AAlchemy PSU have a normal 20-pin ATX leader to plug into the motherboard? If so, you could just run dual-PSUs with a dual harness and start-up another PSU to carry some of the rest of the load. 😀

obobskivich wrote:

The Q3D PSU, according to Dodge Garage 3dfx, outputs 15A on 5V and 18A on 12V. […]
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The Q3D PSU, according to Dodge Garage 3dfx, outputs 15A on 5V and 18A on 12V.

See this page for more:
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/q3d_aalchemy.htm

Also remember - Quantum3D AAlchemy isn't about insane fillrates, it's about insane AA levels.

Question of the day regarding this setup though:

Does the AAlchemy PSU have a normal 20-pin ATX leader to plug into the motherboard? If so, you could just run dual-PSUs with a dual harness and start-up another PSU to carry some of the rest of the load. 😀

Yes, I'm concious of that. Using high amounts of AA like 8xRGSSAA at 1024x768/1280x1024 is the reason why I pulled the trigger on getting such piece of hardware

The PSU does have a normal 20p ATX cable, but the only problem is that it will not be possible to install another one along with it inside a TT armor case, which will house the build (I could have the 650w one outside though).

subhuman@xgtx wrote:

Yes, I'm concious of that. Using high amounts of AA like 8xRGSSAA at 1024x768/1280x1024 is the reason why I pulled the trigger on getting such piece of hardware

Honestly I don't think there needs to be a "reason" for buying an AAlchemy beyond that it was available and you were in the right place at the right time. 😀 Was just pointing out that they aren't meant to be fill-rate monsters in the event you were hoping for insanity class performance.

The PSU does have a normal 20p ATX cable, but the only problem is that it will not be possible to install another one along with it inside a TT armor case, which will house the build (I could have the 650w one outside though).

Can't you get a different case and/or put the PSU in the 5.25" bays and/or modify the case?

Basically the "cleanest" way I can see doing this, since you have the original PSU, is to run a second PSU to provide additional 12V and 5V power for the core system, and let the original PSU provide the 2.9V drive for the AAlchemy cards and run some peripherals (it could probably run the case fans to keep a load on its other rails).

obobskivich wrote:

Honestly I don't think there needs to be a "reason" for buying an AAlchemy beyond that it was available and you were in the righ […]
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subhuman@xgtx wrote:

Yes, I'm concious of that. Using high amounts of AA like 8xRGSSAA at 1024x768/1280x1024 is the reason why I pulled the trigger on getting such piece of hardware

Honestly I don't think there needs to be a "reason" for buying an AAlchemy beyond that it was available and you were in the right place at the right time. 😀 Was just pointing out that they aren't meant to be fill-rate monsters in the event you were hoping for insanity class performance.

The PSU does have a normal 20p ATX cable, but the only problem is that it will not be possible to install another one along with it inside a TT armor case, which will house the build (I could have the 650w one outside though).

Can't you get a different case and/or put the PSU in the 5.25" bays and/or modify the case?

Basically the "cleanest" way I can see doing this, since you have the original PSU, is to run a second PSU to provide additional 12V and 5V power for the core system, and let the original PSU provide the 2.9V drive for the AAlchemy cards and run some peripherals (it could probably run the case fans to keep a load on its other rails).

Well, I understand your point (no worries) and that is partly true haha. I just wanted to do this for the fun factor that would be testing out a 16 Vsa-100 chip setup designed for Sim apps with something it wasn't intended for: playing games with cranked up SSAA at no performance cost.

I will check again how much space I have in the front bays; I think it is a great idea.

In worst case I will have to buy a test bench or a tower that can cope with the size of the card.

Greetings

subhuman@xgtx wrote:

Well, I understand your point (no worries) and that is partly true haha. I just wanted to do this for the fun factor that would be testing out a 16 Vsa-100 chip setup designed for Sim apps with something it wasn't intended for: playing games with cranked up SSAA at no performance cost.

😎

I will check again how much space I have in the front bays; I think it is a great idea.

In worst case I will have to buy a test bench or a tower that can cope with the size of the card.

Greetings

Didn't even think about the *cards* fitting into a case! 🤣

One thing I've found for "test benches" that works well is a removable mainboard tray that has the I/O shields integrated into it - usually they're not hard to come by, and you can put whatever parts you like into them.

Another thing I thought of, PSU wise, was how some very slim HTPC parts use an external power supply brick and feed into the case - I've seen these for sale from a few sites, but honestly can't remember any of them off-handedly at the moment. Usually they don't provide more than ~150W, but it would probably be sufficient to "shore up" what the Q3D PSU can do. 😊

obobskivich wrote:

:cool: […]
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subhuman@xgtx wrote:

Well, I understand your point (no worries) and that is partly true haha. I just wanted to do this for the fun factor that would be testing out a 16 Vsa-100 chip setup designed for Sim apps with something it wasn't intended for: playing games with cranked up SSAA at no performance cost.

😎

I will check again how much space I have in the front bays; I think it is a great idea.

In worst case I will have to buy a test bench or a tower that can cope with the size of the card.

Greetings

Didn't even think about the *cards* fitting into a case! 🤣

One thing I've found for "test benches" that works well is a removable mainboard tray that has the I/O shields integrated into it - usually they're not hard to come by, and you can put whatever parts you like into them.

Another thing I thought of, PSU wise, was how some very slim HTPC parts use an external power supply brick and feed into the case - I've seen these for sale from a few sites, but honestly can't remember any of them off-handedly at the moment. Usually they don't provide more than ~150W, but it would probably be sufficient to "shore up" what the Q3D PSU can do. 😊

Yeah, I tried once not too much time ago and the brick doesn't even fit inside a Haf X case...

Due to the fact it might be difficult for me to find a Mb tray like the one you mention here, I have been also thinking about modding the zone where the extra hard drive case is placed inside the TT armor(Next to where the psu goes) and install a SFX Silverstone 450w PSU right there.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=342

Will 14A @ +5V but 37A @ +12V instead be up to the task?

As far as the original PSU, I'd be mainly worried about your 15A 5V rating, and maybe the 3.3v+5v combined if those have any joint limit.

My desktop was an NF7-S 2.0 for a while, and later switched to an AN7 which I think are pretty similar. Be careful about using a modern 12v oriented PSU with these boards. My attempt to do this ended in failure, because it was too weak on the other rails.
I've never probed these boards but I don't think they use 12V for much other than the CPU VRM. I think most other things draw from 5V and 3.3v.

The first PSU I tried was a more modern 550W PSU which was designed for 12V oriented systems. The 3.3v rail was overstressed, it sagged slightly, and fell out of spec after 2 weeks. I think the video card, a TI4200, helped to overstress that rail.

I tried an older 300W PSU, designed for this era of systems, and found that it worked way better. It did need to be recapped though. I used it for about 2-3 years with no degradation over that time.
These were the specs on it:
Fortron FSP300-60PFN
3.3v+5v = 180W max (this is important - the failed 550W PSU above was rated 160W for this)
3.3v 28A
5v 30A
12v 15A
5vsb 2A

With the 300W PSU it was stable over the long term with that same TI4200, but I don't remember what the voltages were. I later upgraded the video card again, and this was the final configuration:
Radeon 9800 Pro
Barton XP-M 2.1GHz/200 (don't remember voltage)
2x 512MB DDR400 CL2
TV tuner card
3x hard drives, optical/floppy

With this setup and the 300W Fortron PSU above, every voltage rail was slightly over (like 5.02v, 3.31v, 12.1v or whatever) which to me is just a sign of great health. It stayed that way permanently.
The modern 550W PSUs (I have several identical ones) have proven to be good PSUs on every modern build I've done with them, but were beaten by a 300W in this nForce2 build, just because of their relative weakness on the lower rails.

Necroresurrecting.

Okay, the 8264 and PSU are arriving today/tomorrow and I was able to run the system decently with an el-cheapo 550w that has enough amp rates for a S462 system with moderate overclock.

As obobskivich suggested I will have to run the two psus together to power up the system properly. The problem is I don't have a relay or something like an Add2PSU; how can I bridge them properly without risk? If I could get them to work then the 550 watter would be powering up the mainboard and main video card and the TKpower psu the 8264 along with a 500gb hdd and some fans.

subhuman@xgtx wrote:

Necroresurrecting.

Okay, the 8264 and PSU are arriving today/tomorrow and I was able to run the system decently with an el-cheapo 550w that has enough amp rates for a S462 system with moderate overclock.

As obobskivich suggested I will have to run the two psus together to power up the system properly. The problem is I don't have a relay or something like an Add2PSU; how can I bridge them properly without risk? If I could get them to work then the 550 watter would be powering up the mainboard and main video card and the TKpower psu the 8264 along with a 500gb hdd and some fans.

Does the Q3D PSU use a normal ATX connector (meaning, is the pinout proper?)? If not, does it at least support soft-start? If so just tie it into the other PSU's PWR_on headers like you would with a two PSU adapter (it's a simple cable adapter - Lian-Li and Cooler Master used to give them away with various cases). Should work, but ofc this is all "in theory." Alternatively you could get a very modern monster PSU (like one of the higher end PC Power or Seasonic units) that can drive 60-100A on a single 12V, and just have a 12V->2.9V DC->DC section. 75A 2.9V from 12V would be probably around a 25-30A load, and a single XP shouldn't have issues with "only" 30-60A 12V remaining. Dodge Garage 3dfx has directions for building such an adapter under the Alchemy FAQ page.

obobskivich wrote:

subhuman@xgtx wrote:

Necroresurrecting.

Okay, the 8264 and PSU are arriving today/tomorrow and I was able to run the system decently with an el-cheapo 550w that has enough amp rates for a S462 system with moderate overclock.

As obobskivich suggested I will have to run the two psus together to power up the system properly. The problem is I don't have a relay or something like an Add2PSU; how can I bridge them properly without risk? If I could get them to work then the 550 watter would be powering up the mainboard and main video card and the TKpower psu the 8264 along with a 500gb hdd and some fans.

Does the Q3D PSU use a normal ATX connector (meaning, is the pinout proper?)? If not, does it at least support soft-start? If so just tie it into the other PSU's PWR_on headers like you would with a two PSU adapter (it's a simple cable adapter - Lian-Li and Cooler Master used to give them away with various cases). Should work, but ofc this is all "in theory." Alternatively you could get a very modern monster PSU (like one of the higher end PC Power or Seasonic units) that can drive 60-100A on a single 12V, and just have a 12V->2.9V DC->DC section. 75A 2.9V from 12V would be probably around a 25-30A load, and a single XP shouldn't have issues with "only" 30-60A 12V remaining. Dodge Garage 3dfx has directions for building such an adapter under the Alchemy FAQ page.

Thanks for coming again. The PSU does indeed have a normal atx plug, just with the extra propietary connectors coming along with the rest of cables so that means I could give that a shot.