When it comes to using CF cards with IDE-CF adapters, compatibility is usually the bigger/limiting issue. If you want speed and have a spare PCI slot, how about using PCI SATA adapter with SATA-based SSD insead?

Personally I only use CF cards in my 486, in which case the IDE controller it self is going to be the weakest link. On my K6-III I use a relatively modern 80GB Seagate Barracuda 7000.1, but for that system I guess a PCI based SATA controller would be an option, assuming it would work under Windows 98se. I've not tried any very expencive CF cards, although I do use a 150x card in my 486, and as far as I can tell, it's pretty quick.

archsan wrote:

When it comes to using CF cards with IDE-CF adapters, compatibility is usually the bigger/limiting issue. If you want speed and have a spare PCI slot, how about using PCI SATA adapter with SATA-based SSD insead?

I've used this and it works fine. I'm always on the lookout for alternatives more than anything. So was just wondering if someone, maybe a someone into photography, has experience with these super fast CF cards.

I really like PCI to SATA adapters but always run into trouble when enabling DMA mode unter W98 SE. While performance, even without DMA, is blazing, I woul really like to enable it. The issues range from locking up when booting W98 (converter with J Micro chip) to extremely slow performance with second long pauses (the most recent adapter I reviewed).

CF cards don't have this issue. DMA mode works flawless.

If the rest of the system is able to use them, getting a faster cf card really improves things. Don't expect a 386/485/pentium1 to become super fast with a 600x card, the controller and the rest just can't keep up and you'll never get the speed the card is able to provide. Of course if you are now using a very slow old card, replacing it with a faster will boost performance. So the question is, what are you using now and find it slow?
(I'm sure you are aware of it, but just in case: since you're using them with OS prior to Vista, you have manually alligned the partition, right? If not, performance is crippled by this beyond imagination)

Currently my "best" storage solution is a modern SATA driver with 32 GB capacity limit through a SATA to IDE adapter. BUT I can't disable DMA. It still flogs every other storage solution I tried.

SATA PCI cards cause a performance warning message in device manager (something about hard drive being in MS-DOS mode). For the Promise card when I load the driver it will show up under SCSI and the warning message doesn't go away. Benchmarks are inconclusive with weird results like over 200 MB / s yet subjectively slow.

OS is Windows 98 SE. Systems are usually Socket 370 and Slot 1 machines.

Ok I never bothered with aligning CF cards. Might just stick with the tried and tested SATA HDDs to be honest. It's just that the DMA issue bugs me. I mean it's fast but I'd love to have in on just because that's what it should do.

I don't want to jinx anything but I might have solved my locking / freezing issue that I have with pretty much all of my IDE to SATA adapter.

I have a hunch that the latest chipset driver breaks something. I will investigate...

Looking good! Quickly tested three different IDE to SATA adapters (different chips) on my Pentium III-S 1.4 GHz reference system:

Transcend CF Industrial series I recommend.
They have better wear leveling then normal CF cards, like an SSD, and they are meant to be used with these adapters in retro\old industrial machines.

Never get master\slave issues with them on dual CF adapters.

I'm not sure where the thread is going (is that Seagate 320GB a regular harddrive?), but assuming you've had stable setup with SATA SSD (without DMA), and you've already got "blazing speed", what do you need DMA for?

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

So was just wondering if someone, maybe a someone into photography, has experience with these super fast CF cards.

I only have 12MP Nikon D700 and rarely shoot in high-speed burst so I can get by without the fastest cards. 😊 Maybe someone else with 36MP cameras, or those shooting at 10fps regularly can give you more info, but those really are large files write scenario though.

I use SanDisk Ultra/Extreme 30MB/s or 200x, but for continuous, sequential write of small files, I'm not sure it will be significantly faster than what you're already using (even with expensive 400/600x cards), hence the SATA SSD suggestion. Or regular harddrives, which you seem to be using/testing right now.

Currently only using SSD on PCI- SATA controller (Silicon Image) in my Compaq system. I dunno if DMA is activated (I need to check), but it works in both Win98 and DOS. Here is a screenshot of the performance:

As I understand it SLC (single cell) flash memory should have better write performance. There are PATA SLC SSDs out there which are plug and play with older machines. I have a 16GB model in my Socket 7 machine but I haven't benched it.

I've tried several different CF cards. While performance is tolerable with Windows 95, it's pretty terrible in Windows 98SE. I only use CF cards now in my 486, DOS systems.

Thank you for all the input guys! I think I will also stick with using CF cards for DOS and, now that I seem to have found a DMA fix, SATA to IDE adapters for Windows.

@ vetz

Check this tab for any problems: http://support.lexmark.com/library/LEXMARK/pr … e_tab_en_UK.gif

With a PCI SATA controller I always had a warning message here.

This is where you turn on DMA:

http://www.pcmus.com/images/win98dma.jpg

It is always turned off by default.

vetz wrote:

Currently only using SSD on PCI- SATA controller (Silicon Image) in my Compaq system. I dunno if DMA is activated (I need to check), but it works in both Win98 and DOS. Here is a screenshot of the performance:

DMA is most certainly activated since the speed you are getting is way faster than any PIO mode allows. PIO mode 4 is 16.7 MB/s, and even mode 6 which was only implemented for CF cards is only 25 MB/s.
I like the solid blue bar for the hdd transfer speed...

I guess I mis-worded my previous question, never mind.

@idspispopd: do you know about PIO through DMA feature on some PCI SATA controllers like the Silicon Image mentioned here? The feature is listed as "Virtual DMA in PCI with serial link in legacy PIO mode". I'm trying to find a good reference on it.

Quick update guys!

It appears that my workaround to enable DMA with all my SATA to IDE adapters is really working 😊

I will do some more testing with another board (so far confirmed working with BX440 and i815 chipset board).

Why do I want DMA enabled? Because without DMA performance doesn't go over 10 MB/s. With DMA it goes close to the theoretical limit, see the screenshots above. ATA 100 on the i815 and ATA 33 on the BX440.

Just an addition to the thread, I've found only by experience (and contrary to what theory suggests) that DOM's work much smoother in windows environments than a CF card+adapter. For example, this is the SAME pc with a 600x CF on an adapter running windows XP vs a rather cheap DOM from ebay. I wasn't happy with the CF's erratic behavior and decided to risk getting a DOM, never regreted it. Same disk image was used of course. I suppose they have some kind of controller that suits pc's since they were intended to be used in them in the first place? I really don't know the reason for this, but difference is obvious. Same behavior was observed in more than one pc and, frankly, don't stick to numbers. ~70 vs ~80 means nothing, but pause-free operation can be felt immediately.

Finally, I can't stress enough just how important it is to have the partition aligned when the CF/DOM is partitioned using an OS older than Vista. The performance is not just lower, it's below half and with random/multiple pauses in between. Don't ignore this factor, it's probably the first thing to consider when discussing performance on such media. I searched for pictures from the same pc with the DOM unaligned to backup these lines but unfortunately didn't find them…

Thanks for the information!

Just saw the question regarding the 320 GB. It's an old 320 GB Seagate Barracude 7200.10. With SeaTools for DOS you can enable a 32 GB limit. It turns the drive into a 32 GB drive 😀 Then I use a SATA to IDE adapters (I reviewed it recently on my YT channel) and that's basically it. Now I also have a newer 2 TB Samsung trick. Same process, turned it into a 32 GB SATA drive. I put that SATA 1 limit jumper on both as well. The newer Samsung somewhat faster. Especially seek times and working with small files.

Here some benchmarks on an AOpen BX440 Slot 1 machine:

With DMA:

Without DMA:

archsan wrote:

@idspispopd: do you know about PIO through DMA feature on some PCI SATA controllers like the Silicon Image mentioned here? The feature is listed as "Virtual DMA in PCI with serial link in legacy PIO mode". I'm trying to find a good reference on it.

Only experience: Windows XP on a C2D notebook using SATA in legacy IDE mode instead native AHCI (onboard Intel controller). Because of a bug XP sometimes falls back to PIO mode. Very slow performance, boot time > 15 minutes. Can be fixed through the registry.