VOGONS


First post, by Yasashii

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I formatted my drive some time ago and installed Windows 7 x64 SP1, the up-to-date drivers for my hardware and all the software I always do. Nothing seemed to be out of the ordinary until I tried to watch a movie.

There is a problem with the gamma or the color range or something. The dark areas are too dark, while everything else seems to be unaffected. This results in some dark scenes in movies being very hard to watch as most stuff is just pitch-black instead of being just dark.
Here's a screenshot of a test video played on my netbook, on which there are no such problems (the problem occurs only on my main PC):

http://s14.postimg.org/ytqehq36p/Online_Full_ … ional_Patte.jpg

And here's a screenshot of the same test video taken on my main PC:

http://s30.postimg.org/xrz21u7wx/Cody.jpg

Pay attention to the grayscale strip. Specifically to the dark values. You will notice that all of the colors are exactly the same except the dark ones are darker on my main PC.

The problem seems obvious to you now, I imagine, but here's the thing:

-It's not the fault of the video player I'm using because the image looks exactly the same using MPC:HC, VLC and WMP.
-It's not the renderer because I've tried some different ones in MPC:HC and there was no difference. Also, VLC and WMP use different ones so yeah...
-It's not the codecs. For MPC:HC I'm using the latest FFDshow + CoreAVC but, again, VLC and WMP use their own stuff and there's no difference.
-It's probably not the video driver either. I'm using the latest stable (recommended) forceware (341.44). I'm sure if the drivers were to blame a lot more people would have noticed it and there would be a newer version with the fix right now and you'd be able to find a lot more people complaining about it, but I haven't found a single account of my problem on the internet. However, just to make sure I tried some older forceware versions and there was no difference.

Btw. it makes no difference whether I pick the NVIDIA setting or video player settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel in the "Adjust video color settings" tab. And before you ask: the gamma sliders are left at default values (1.00).

The difference between the two screenshots might appear to be small but trust me, it is very much a problem when watching movies, especially during dark scenes. Sometimes it gets so dark that I can't see anything, while the scene is just fine when played on my netbook or my second PC.

I'm at a loss here. My best theory is that something went wrong during the installation of the OS itself or maybe a Windows update screwed something up. I don't have time to format my drive again and re-install Windows and I won't have time to do it for several more weeks.
Since I'd rather not have to resort to watching movies on my netbook due to the screensize, and video quality (due to performance reasons I can't use the same settings and renderers on my netbook).

If this, whatever this is, can be fixed somehow, please tell me how because I have no idea where to start.
My gfx card is GeForce 9800GT if it's of any importance.

Reply 1 of 6, by Gemini000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I hate to break this to you but have you actually put an eyedropper tool to those greyscale shades? They're so close to identical that the difference in the dark colours between the two screenshots is unnoticeable on my display. (In fact, it's the really bright colours where the differences are more pronounced!)

Since the dark values are so close though, and since that's where you're having issues, I'm going to guess the problem is on a display driver level, or your display itself is misconfigured. Try the following, in order and stop if you solve the problem:

1. If you haven't installed a driver for your actual display, do so, as this may include a default colour management profile which will work better than what Windows will use by default.

2. Check and make sure your actual display settings haven't changed and are still set to the same contrast, brightness, gamma, colour, and other settings it's always been set to. Some displays can adjust colour profiles automatically to try and make things look "better". My display has something called "MagicColor" which I have disabled since it makes things look a bit TOO saturated, at least to my eyes. See if such a thing accidentally got enabled/disabled compared to how you would normally want it.

3. Check your graphics card's internal contrast, brightness, gamma, and colour management settings. Compare with your laptop to see if there's any differences. Even if not, try fiddling with these as you're bound to find a way to fix the issue this way.

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- Pixelmusement Website: www.pixelships.com
--- Ancient DOS Games Webshow: www.pixelships.com/adg

Reply 2 of 6, by Yasashii

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

1. I never install the driver for the display because the only thing it does is give you an adjustment utility. Positively useless since that is a feature of Windows itself. It doesn't matter because I wouldn't use it anyway. I want my picture perfectly neutral and unmodified or "adjusted" in any way. I've had this display since 2004 and there's never been a problem. The gamma issue also occurs when I connect my computer to my TV, so it's not the fault of the display and it obviously couldn't be since the gamma problem only occurs during video playback and it's fine with everything else.

2. Already did that. I went through every single setting and it's all as it should be.

3. The only way to do that is to change the few options available in the Nvidia Control Panel in the "Adjust video color settings" tab. I always set the color adjustments to "With the NVIDIA settings" and switch the dynamic color range to full. I have used those settings ever since I can remember and it's always been fine. And yes, of course, I tried changing them but it doesn't make a difference. When I set the dynamic color range to limited, the problem remains. Everything is still too dark only now the darkness is washed-out.

And as for the gamma adjustments, I tried raising the values, which would be a great temporary workaround for the problem until I find time to re-install Windows again, except it brightens all the other colors so they look washed-out, which is just as unacceptable.

Comparing my video settings with my netbook makes no sense because my netbook has an ATI gfx and so does my other desktop.

And yes, I have tried using ColorPic for the sole reason of providing proof for people here who can't see the difference for some reason but the thing is, it's virtually impossible since the values jump all over the place as I move my cursor over the number 10 box which, to a naked eye, looks like it's all a perfectly solid color. It literally takes a move of a single pixel to change the values completely. That's the imperfections of video for ya.

And as for you seeing completely different things on your display in the two screenshots, I viewed them on my netbook and my other desktop, and on every one I can see the same problem: the difference in the darks. If you see something else entirely then it's probably because your display isn't set to 100% neutral settings.

Reply 3 of 6, by Gemini000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Yasashii wrote:

I never install the driver for the display because the only thing it does is give you an adjustment utility.

Not true. I've used Samsung monitors for years and I can tell you their display drivers ALWAYS have a colour management profile they install as a default.

Seriously, before you do anything else, try installing the drivers for your display. You may be surprised. (Or maybe not, but there's no harm in trying.)

Yasashii wrote:

If you see something else entirely then it's probably because your display isn't set to 100% neutral settings.

Exactly. My display is set up to provide contrast, brightness and colour qualities which look the most natural to me. :)

Don't worry about having 100% accurate reproductions of what you expect. Worry about making it look the way you want it to.

For your specific situation, one thing you might try is DECREASING gamma while increasing brightness. This will make both really bright colours and shades as well as really dark colours and shades a little brighter, but everything in the middle will stay the same.

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- Pixelmusement Website: www.pixelships.com
--- Ancient DOS Games Webshow: www.pixelships.com/adg

Reply 4 of 6, by PhilsComputerLab

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Do you connect via HDMI by any chance?

YouTube, Facebook, Website

Reply 5 of 6, by Davros

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Are you running in full range 0-255 or limited range 16-255 ?

Guardian of the Sacred Five Terabyte's of Gaming Goodness

Reply 6 of 6, by jwt27

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The only difference I see in your screenshots is that one is downscaled, blurry, and has way more compression artifacts than the other. The luminance levels on the contrast bar seem equivalent to me. You do have some weird bands in the colour bars there, not sure what's up with that.

Yasashii wrote:

the number 10 box which, to a naked eye, looks like it's all a perfectly solid color.

No it doesn't. Sounds like your gamma and/or brightness is way off. Can you discern each square in these two test patterns?
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php

Check your colour profile in windows, make sure it's set to one that matches your monitor. Set the contrast and brightness levels on your screen so that black is as dark as possible, and white is as bright as possible (without saturating). Then adjust the gamma in your graphics card drivers with one of the following test patterns. Aim for 2.2.
http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html
http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1B.html
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php (may work better on lcd)

Yasashii wrote:

It literally takes a move of a single pixel to change the values completely. That's the imperfections of video for ya.

That's JPEG for ya. Don't use it for screenshots.

Gemini000 wrote:

one thing you might try is DECREASING gamma while increasing brightness.

While this might "help" in this specific case, I'd have to say this is pretty bad advice. If you ever need to adjust the brightness level in software, there's something really wrong either with your monitor or with some other settings.