VOGONS


First post, by PhilsComputerLab

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I think the time has come to look at something more recent!

I love MS-DOS gaming and I am also very much into Windows 98 SE, but every time / period has it's unique fascination. The Windows XP era was special to me in other ways, I had money and could afford something decent. Graphics fidelity got better and better, resolutions increased as well and I remember the first 16:10 1680 x 1050 monitors coming out. The XP era also marks an end to EAX, something I really enjoyed. I had a Logitech 5.1 surround setup and boy did BF 2142, Far Cry, F.E.A.R. and Doom 3 sound great.

Goals

I believe that a build needs to have some sort of goal, direction or purpose. Otherwise it just becomes a random project and it's hard to judge if it's a success or not. The goal of this machine is to build a Windows XP gaming PC from parts that I already have lying around. I always go with Intel + Nvidia, so this time AMD is getting some love and we will see if I run into any compatibility issues or not.

1600 x 1200 resolution gaming at 60+ FPS is a goal this machine should achieve. While many games can be modified to run at 1920 x 1080, sometimes there are issues with HUD stretching or the game needs to be modified. I like to avoid this and that everything works out of the box and I like the 4:3 aspect ratio, it takes me back to the good times. Still, the number of pixels pushed is very similar, 1.92 MP vs 2.04 MP, so the benchmark results should be very close to playing at 1920 x 1080.

EAX sound is another goal. While you can use ALchemy on newer machines, it's again something one needs to configure and there is always this nagging voice in your head that it might not be 100% accurate.

Another reason for this is that games can have issues running under modern Windows such as Windows 10. There are often workarounds, but this can be frustrating.

I won't be touching DX9 + DX10 features games such as Bioshock, Crysis or Company of Heroes. These games are reserved for another project 😀

The games I would like to test are F.E.A.R., Doom 3, Far Cry, Need for Speed Most Wanted and maybe some other games that you guys recommend. Up to 2006 seems fitting.

The parts

Case is a Gigabyte GZ-M2. Nice little uATX case:

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Motherboard is a MSI K9A2VM-FD. This board has the AMD 780V+SB700 chipsets with DDR2:

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Two nice looking DDR2 RAM sticks from Corsair. Going with 4 GB, which is ideal for XP gaming. Remember, 32 Bit application can only use 2 GB, so no point in going higher.

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Processor is still undecided. I have a rather old Athlon 64 X2, but also some Athlon II X2 chips. I might test a few chips to see if it makes much of a difference. Not decided on the cooler, but might use this cheap and nasty Gamma Archer cooler from Deepcool.

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Graphics card!

Spoilt for choice, but this is the only suitable AMD card I have. I believe it performs on the level of the GTX 285, which is often mentioned as a great Windows XP card. I will also have to checkout the drivers. I might go with something more period correct, but will try the latest and greatest driver first. Nice compact card with a single PCIe power connector:

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Sound card!

There is only one choice. The X-Fi Titanium PCIe. The final X-Fi card and a must for a XP gaming machine:

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Hard drive!

In my recent video review comparing SSD vs SSHD vs HDD several viewers mentioned that the SSHD might be great for a retro PC running Windows 98 SE or XP. So I want to check it out! It is the 2 GB SSHD from Seagate:

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Optical drive!

Just a standard SATA optical drive:

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Floppy drive!

Three reasons: I love the GOTEK floppy drive, the motherboard has a floppy port and it makes it super easy to load the AHCI driver. Not sure if this board supports AHCI, but if it does I'm ready for it 😀

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Operating System!

Windows XP Pro SP3 should do the trick

Everything else!

A 1920 x 1200 monitor, USB keyboard and USB mouse.

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Reply 1 of 26, by petro89

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Looks like a great system! I've been working on an XP powerhouse as well, featuring a Phenom ii x4 945, 4gb ddr2, and an hd4850. Looking forward to watching your video on the build!

*Ryzen 9 3900xt, 5700xt, Win10
*Ryzen 7 2700x, Gtx1080, Win10
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Reply 2 of 26, by PhilsComputerLab

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petro89 wrote:

Looks like a great system! I've been working on an XP powerhouse as well, featuring a Phenom ii x4 945, 4gb ddr2, and an hd4850. Looking forward to watching your video on the build!

Nice! Very similar to mine actually 😀

I do have a x4 as well, but it's a 125W beast and I'm not going to use that one.

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Reply 3 of 26, by alexanrs

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Does the X-Fi offer anything for XP-era gaming an Audigy 2 doesn't?

Reply 4 of 26, by elianda

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My Win XP 32 Bit system is at the moment:
Athlon XP 3200+ (FSB400) on an Asrock nForce2 Ultra RAID board with 4 GB RAM, Geforce 6800GT, SB Xi-Fi xTremeMusic, Intel 1000GT, WD 150 GB VelociRaptor, EnerMax 365W PSU and a few other components.

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Reply 5 of 26, by PhilsComputerLab

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elianda wrote:

My Win XP 32 Bit system is at the moment:
Athlon XP 3200+ (FSB400) on an Asrock nForce2 Ultra RAID board with 4 GB RAM, Geforce 6800GT, SB Xi-Fi xTremeMusic, Intel 1000GT, WD 150 GB VelociRaptor, EnerMax 365W PSU and a few other components.

Very nice. More period correct too.

alexanrs wrote:

Does the X-Fi offer anything for XP-era gaming an Audigy 2 doesn't?

EAX HD 5, lower noise, better positional surround, PCIe vs PCI

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Reply 6 of 26, by Oldbitcollector

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I just built a very similar xp system a couple weeks ago for myself. Differences being that I used that Yamaha XG soundcard and voodoo3 card.

Some interesting notes and challenges:

* Microsoft will still approve the coa by phone/computer with a sales pitch for Windows 10. Ha!!!
* Service pack 3 redirects to a Windows 10 sales page, but majorgeeks has had the service packs and C++ library support from mirror sites. (thank goodness)
* Interestingly, there was nearly an hour of downloadable updates that came in from Microsoft even with my installed copy of xp service pack2 and service pack 3 standalone. very cool!

Reply 7 of 26, by gdjacobs

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philscomputerlab wrote:
elianda wrote:

My Win XP 32 Bit system is at the moment:
Athlon XP 3200+ (FSB400) on an Asrock nForce2 Ultra RAID board with 4 GB RAM, Geforce 6800GT, SB Xi-Fi xTremeMusic, Intel 1000GT, WD 150 GB VelociRaptor, EnerMax 365W PSU and a few other components.

Very nice. More period correct too.

You're assuming there was a Windows Vista era. To me, everything up to Windows 7 RTM in 2009 was a perfectly acceptable machine from the XP period. I prefer to pretend Vista never existed.

philscomputerlab wrote:
alexanrs wrote:

Does the X-Fi offer anything for XP-era gaming an Audigy 2 doesn't?

EAX HD 5, lower noise, better positional surround, PCIe vs PCI

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 8 of 26, by alexanrs

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gdjacobs wrote:

You're assuming there was a Windows Vista era. To me, everything up to Windows 7 RTM in 2009 was a perfectly acceptable machine from the XP period. I prefer to pretend Vista never existed.

C'mon, Vista wasn't THAT BAD. Until Windows 7 came along Vista was the only OS that could give you DX10, and some games did use it.

Reply 9 of 26, by gdjacobs

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Agreed, DX10 and 64 bit were the two levers Microsoft tried to use to push Vista on users. Their execution was absolutely terrible, though. By the time Vista is modified with patches and mods for acceptable performance and usability, it's essentially a new OS.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 10 of 26, by brostenen

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The only thing I like better on Vista, is the layout on the GUI.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 11 of 26, by Firtasik

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philscomputerlab wrote:

I will also have to checkout the drivers. I might go with something more period correct, but will try the latest and greatest driver first.

Some older games have problems with drivers newer than 13.1.

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Reply 12 of 26, by PhilsComputerLab

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Firtasik wrote:
philscomputerlab wrote:

I will also have to checkout the drivers. I might go with something more period correct, but will try the latest and greatest driver first.

Some older games have problems with drivers newer than 13.1.

Good to know!

Got another processor that might be more suitable. It's an Athlon II X2:

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Reply 13 of 26, by alexanrs

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gdjacobs wrote:

Agreed, DX10 and 64 bit were the two levers Microsoft tried to use to push Vista on users. Their execution was absolutely terrible, though. By the time Vista is modified with patches and mods for acceptable performance and usability, it's essentially a new OS.

I used Vista back then and it wasn't that bad if you had the hardware for it. Sure, Windows 7 (or Vista SP1) is a big improvement, but Vista's biggest issue were its alleged minimum requirements. Windows 7 and 8 are lighter when it comes to memory usage, yet so 1GB is the bare minimum for 32-bit versions, and 2GB is the recommended amount. Vista tried to pass 512MB as a minimum, and MS went a bit too far pushing OEMs to bundle Vista with machines that met the minimum requirements.

Reply 14 of 26, by gdjacobs

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As far as Vista, I'll name some problems off the top:
Aero performance issues (those crappy Intel GMA systems just made it worse)
UAC nagging
reduced gaming performance
bad driver support
300 extra layers of UI abstraction (a nice preview of what would come with Windows 8 )

Until users had applications requiring more than 4gb of ram or greater than DX9 support, there wasn't a great deal of purpose in upgrading beyond XP. Also, not allowing DX10 to be used in XP was an extremely cynical move to drive Vista sales with little or no technical justification.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 15 of 26, by PhilsComputerLab

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Flashing the BIOS

I ALWAYS flash the latest BIOS. Even if it's not needed, I like doing this. There is just something about having the latest and greatest 🤣

What is awesome is that with Windows XP gear, all the drivers, BIOS files, manuals are readily available for download from the manufacturers website.

In terms of settings, there isn't much to change.

I disable on-board sound and serial port and enable AHCI.

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Advanced Format - 4K Sectors - Aligning partitions

I am using a modern, Advanced Format 4K sector drive. Windows XP cannot align them correctly, which will result in performance loss. While you can use alignment tools to solve this, it is much easier to simply partition and format your drive in another machine running Windows Vista or later:

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When you then install Windows XP, do NOT make XP partition and format the drive, select this option instead:

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Reply 16 of 26, by PhilsComputerLab

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Good old AMD...

Latest driver. Will try an older one from 2011...

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Reply 17 of 26, by Stermy57

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If I were you, I would like to change control panel settings
CPU recovery and so on with old 3dbenchmark or games

Reply 18 of 26, by PhilsComputerLab

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Machine is now working well with older drivers.

However performance seems a bit lacking, I think it's the processor.

What are the opinions on the Athlon 64 X2 5000+? Could be holding the Radeon 6770 back a little?

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Reply 19 of 26, by PhilsComputerLab

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Switched to a Phenom II X2 Black Edition 555 and now the machine is performing much better 😀

Also ditched the 1600 x 1200 resolution, not many will have a screen that supports it. A basic 19" 1280 x 1024 will be used instead, they can still be purchased new and are readily available second hand!

At that resolution the machine makes mince meat out of all the games I tried. Far Cry being still a bit challenging at some outdoor scenes, but still over 60 fps at all times.

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