Back in the day, I had a Pentium 133 when I got my first 3D graphics card, a 3dfx Voodoo 😀 And the 133 was already outclassed by 166 and 200 MHz models. MMX followed soon and when I got a Voodoo 2 I also got a fast Pentium II.

So what I'm saying is that a Voodoo isn't a good match for a 486. I would leave the 486 for older DOS games.

meljor wrote:

Hi guys, […]
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Hi guys,

I just recently dove into the 486 world and my experience with systems really started more from p1 and up. I like to use 3dfx in every retro system i build and it is simply for fun to use 3dfx in a 486.

I now have an amd dx4-120 8kb cpu (3x40mhz) and i tried my favorite screamer games with it. With s3 virge screamer2 turned into a slide show, even at 320x240. When using 3dfx the game actually got playable in 640x480! It is still a bit slow but it is amazing to see how much glide helps in this game on such a slow system. I tried voodoo1, v2 and v3 and it seems like the v2 is a bit faster (can't really measure fps).

Now for my question: i got 2 more cpu's on the way and i wonder which is best for 3dfx performance. I'll get a cyrix 100gp and an amd 5x86 dx5 133mhz.

Is the cyrix @ 120mhz faster for this stuff compared to the amd @ 160mhz? I don't know if these games depend more on alu or fpu?

Also what is the best pci card for this system? My choices are s3 trio 64v+, s3 virgeDX, Matrox g200, voodoo3 pci, riva128, radeon 9200 and geforce2 mx. It is mainly for trying non-3d dos games that really want a pentium so svga.

My specs are Acer ap43 pci board (no vlb, sis chipset, max 40fsb), 32mb fastpage, sounblaster pro2.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Nope.... Don't go with Voodoo's on a 486 class system.
They are matched better with pentium from 133 to 233mmx, if you need to get as close as possible to 486's.
V1 is Pentium1 land.

For a good match on a 486-class system, I would suggest something like S3, ET4000 or Cirrus Logic cards.
If you go for ISA, then get something like an ET4000.
If you go for PCI, then S3.
If you go for VL-Bus, then go for something like Cirrus Logic. (around CL-5420/28)

meljor wrote:

Hi guys, […]
Show full quote

Hi guys,

I just recently dove into the 486 world and my experience with systems really started more from p1 and up. I like to use 3dfx in every retro system i build and it is simply for fun to use 3dfx in a 486.

I now have an amd dx4-120 8kb cpu (3x40mhz) and i tried my favorite screamer games with it. With s3 virge screamer2 turned into a slide show, even at 320x240. When using 3dfx the game actually got playable in 640x480! It is still a bit slow but it is amazing to see how much glide helps in this game on such a slow system. I tried voodoo1, v2 and v3 and it seems like the v2 is a bit faster (can't really measure fps).

Now for my question: i got 2 more cpu's on the way and i wonder which is best for 3dfx performance. I'll get a cyrix 100gp and an amd 5x86 dx5 133mhz.

Is the cyrix @ 120mhz faster for this stuff compared to the amd @ 160mhz? I don't know if these games depend more on alu or fpu?

Also what is the best pci card for this system? My choices are s3 trio 64v+, s3 virgeDX, Matrox g200, voodoo3 pci, riva128, radeon 9200 and geforce2 mx. It is mainly for trying non-3d dos games that really want a pentium so svga.

My specs are Acer ap43 pci board (no vlb, sis chipset, max 40fsb), 32mb fastpage, sounblaster pro2.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Perhaps either Cyrix 5x86 or POD83 will do the job for you?
But I tend to agree with the above, 486 isn't really practical for 3DFX. Maybe you have a spare Rush card to put into your 486?

And about the 40MHz max, my own 486 is build around that same motherboard, but I can't remember if I ever tried to see if it had any usable unofficial jumper settings.

You can have a 3dfx 486 system, but for it to be of any use, you need the fastest 486 parts you can get your hands on:

- Cyrix 5x86-120GP with enhancements enabled OR Am5x86-p75 that is stable at 160mhz OR maybe an 83mhz POD (but that isn't really a 486). Some 100Mhz Cyrix 486 CPUs can OC to 120Mhz and run stable.
- UMC UM8881 or SiS 85C496 based board
- 3DFX voodoo 2 because it takes more of the load of the CPU then the Voodoo 1. The Voodoo 2 should be selected so that it can run on a 40MHz PCI bus as well.

You will be able to play earlier GLIDE dos games w/o problems - games like Descent 1 and 2, Blood, Carmageddon and others. GL_Quake will run too, but you can't expect more then 20fps with sound on except if you run the pentium overdrive (witch kind of defeats the purpose of a 486 class machine).

As the Voodoo card diminishes the need for the Pentium Overdrives fast FPU I think the Cyrix 586 @120 or the AMD 5x86p75 @160 will be faster than the POD at stock 83 MHz.

Very few Pentium Overdrive CPUs seem rock stable at 100 MHz without mods, "the Internet" suggests only 1 in 10 while almost every Cyrix 586 100 will do 120 Mhz and almost every AMD 5x86p75 will do 160 MHz.

Smug mode: Owns only one Pentium OverDrive, the only one I ever purchased, it reaches 100MHz.

I would give my input on this thread, but certain moderators would probably throw their shit out of the pram and start deleting my posts, especially if certain other users started being stupid - for which I would probably get the blame. In fact, if you hadn't noticed, my posts are 99% ramblings and almost no attempts to help other members at this point, you can thank your friendly neighborhood mod team for that.

In short, you're on your own. Have fun.

Best CPU = the fastest you can get. 486s were severely obsolete by the time Voodoos appeared, and IMHO if you want a Voodoo system, get a high-clocked Pentium Classic/MMX or a ~300 MHz Pentium 2. For a Voodoo2 you can go Pentium III and pair it with something more competent in areas other than Glide.

alexanrs wrote:

Best CPU = the fastest you can get. 486s were severely obsolete by the time Voodoos appeared, and IMHO if you want a Voodoo system, get a high-clocked Pentium Classic/MMX or a ~300 MHz Pentium 2. For a Voodoo2 you can go Pentium III and pair it with something more competent in areas other than Glide.

voodoo came out in 96 with the pentium 200, 97 pentium mmx 233, pii 300 & riva 128, 98 pii 450, tnt & voodoo2. 486 dx2 66 came out in 92.

HighTreason wrote:

Smug mode: Owns only one Pentium OverDrive, the only one I ever purchased, it reaches 100MHz.

I would give my input on this thread, but certain moderators would probably throw their shit out of the pram and start deleting my posts, especially if certain other users started being stupid - for which I would probably get the blame. In fact, if you hadn't noticed, my posts are 99% ramblings and almost no attempts to help other members at this point, you can thank your friendly neighborhood mod team for that.

In short, you're on your own. Have fun.

I actually like reading your replies. You seem to prefer doing things your own way, and this often is simply one's best way.

awgamer wrote:

alexanrs wrote:

Best CPU = the fastest you can get. 486s were severely obsolete by the time Voodoos appeared, and IMHO if you want a Voodoo system, get a high-clocked Pentium Classic/MMX or a ~300 MHz Pentium 2. For a Voodoo2 you can go Pentium III and pair it with something more competent in areas other than Glide.

voodoo came out in 96 with the pentium 200, 97 pentium mmx 233, pii 300 & riva 128, 98 pii 450, tnt & voodoo2. 486 dx2 66 came out in 92.

Cyrix 5x86 133 was released in 95, but by then it was basically mostly an upgrade.
But this is just technical details anyway 😜

Personally I've never used 3DFX in a 486 and I'd think any 3DFX won't reach it's maximum usefulness whatever 486 CPU one uses (I am throwing anything that can run in Socket 3 on a single large pile though...I mean, one could argue the Cyrix 5x86 was in some ways also a Pentium 1), but to me Meljor has explained perfectly well why he is considering this plan and why he wants our opinions about this thought and I think the views of others about this particular question can be quite interesting 😀

Thanks guys, but as i said: it's just for fun. I have several faster 3dfx systems (some are in my sig). I would just like to see how playable early glide games can get on my 486.
And since it ran quit well on an amd 120, i want to see how far i can take it.

Voodoo1 runs just fine at 40fsb on this system, voodoo2 just ''feels'' a bit faster, indeed probably helping out the cpu a bit more. v3 was as fast as v1 and i haven't tried a banshee yet.

I know the cyrix has some strong points in fpu, and the amd@160 vs the cyrix@120 has a bit faster alu? Since it is about early dos glide games, do they use a faster fpu or do they prefer a faster alu?

I don't want to use a pod because to me it is not a 486 anymore.

@hightreason: if you have some thoughts just put them in here. If it is about you not liking 3dfx cards: i know! If it is about 486 performance: please do! 🤣

Anyone ever tried screamer, screamer2 or screamer rally on a 486? It doesn't have to be with a 3dfx card, if a certain cpu performs better in software mode it probably will with a voodoo.

In a week or so the cpu's will be here and i can test it myself.

Acer AP43 has up to 50MHz FSB 😉 It's not in the manual, but it's easy to figure out.

As I see it, your best bet would be Am5x86-133@200MHz if you ever find one that can cope with that. Otherwise, same CPU at 150MHz.

Anyway, you machine will still be too slow for most 3dfx games.

RacoonRider wrote:

Otherwise, same CPU at 150MHz.

I had good luck with it at 160mhz.

I think it depends on what game you are trying to run I found FF7 ran faster with CX5x86 than the POD but Quake 2 ran faster on the POD than the CX5x86, I never used the AM5x86 much even at 200mhz the weak FPU slows many games down. I know a lot of people don't like the POD but when you are talking about any of these three 5x86 processors none are really true 486s they all have their quirks. It's a shame socket 6 never took hold otherwise there would most likely be more 486 upgrade options

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_6

pod is a pentium, cyrix 5x86 is its own animal, a cut down 6x86, but the amd 5x86 is a 486 as far as I recall.

awgamer wrote:

pod is a pentium

That way I might as well say that Pentium Pro (Socket 😎 is just a slow Pentium 2 😜

meljor wrote:

I would just like to see how playable early glide games can get on my 486.

My cyrix 100gp @ 120MHz can run carmageddon, descent and blood in 3dfx flawlessly. Quake is another matter.

The above result was achieved on the aforementioned 120Mhz cyrix with enhancements on, running a voodoo 2 under windows 95. I used several tweaks to get that result, including stuff like particles 0, GL_flashblend 0 and others. That was with sound. It's kind of playable, but who would want to subject themselves to 23 fps when you can get 60 on a pentium?

stuvize wrote:

It's a shame socket 6 never took hold otherwise there would most likely be more 486 upgrade options

Why would there be? Did it offer anything you couldn't do with Socket 3?

kanecvr wrote:

It's kind of playable, but who would want to subject themselves to 23 fps when you can get 60 on a pentium?

If you put yourself in the 90's shoes, 23fps without the Pentium wallet hole is a far more appreciative thing.

kanecvr wrote:

You can have a 3dfx 486 system, but for it to be of any use, you need the fastest 486 parts you can get your hands on:

- Cyrix 5x86-120GP with enhancements enabled OR Am5x86-p75 that is stable at 160mhz OR maybe an 83mhz POD (but that isn't really a 486).

The Cyrix really isn't a 486, either, as it's a cut down 6x86 that fits in socket 3. The AMD is the only one of the three that is still a 486 at it's core.