Hi,
I can help you with the Aztech cards later, as I have many of them in my collection. There are old ones, good ones and ones that are not so good.

But you shouldn't consider the CT3980 as a "Noise Blaster" - the CT1750 yes, of course. the 1st gen SB16 were noisy, but the CT3980 is a lot quiter, actually one of the best ISA cards Creative released. But please disable the 3D Feature with the AWEUTIL. The 3D feature is ON by default and adds noise to the output, no matter if you use line or speaker out.

Best regards
Fabian

-

PeterLI wrote:

The CT1680 is missing. 😀

OK. Fixed. 😈

Interested in learning more about these Aztech sound cards. I have a few in storage (for years now) which kinda look like I just got to try them out in a build sooner or later 🤣!

I have a couple of Aztech cards in my collection (as a matter of fact, the very first sound card I bought for myself was the Sound Galaxy Basic 16 - I38-MMSN810).
In order to make it a bit easier for your to identify the various generations of Aztech Sound Galaxy cards, I've attached a list from their drivers collection (which is still available on their FTP site and also on Vogons Drivers).

As you've already mentioned, Aztech also manufactured OEM cards for companies like Packard Bell, Reveal, Trust & HP.
It's therefore possible you might come across a model which is not on the list (for example I38-MMSN824), but just have a look at the chipset to identify which generation it falls into.

To summarise:

1. Practically all of the 1st generation sound cards supports Adlib, Sound Blaster Pro II, Windows Sound System, Disney Sound Source & Covox Speech Thing.
   The Sound Galaxy NXPro, NXPro16 & Pro16/Basic16 definitely supports all of the above standards, but I'm not 100 % sure of the BXII, NXII & later models listed under the first generation sound cards.
   The Sound Galaxy Basic Audio 16 (I38-MMSN813) is a very basic card which doesn't have a Wave Blaster header and is also missing an audio connector (I've never bothered to investigate which one).
   I know for a fact that model number I38-MMSN812 (although part of the 1st generation of sound cards) do not support Disney Sound Source & Covox Speech thing, but does have an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface and therefore its Wave Blaster header is supported under DOS (the one I have is the OEM version that was sold by Reveal as the Reveal SC400 Rev.2).
   As you correctly stated, most of the other 1st generation models has a Wave Blaster header (if fitted) that is supported under DOS, but this is purely because these cards do not have an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface. Instead, they have the standard game port/MIDI interface that is also found on the Sound Blaster Mono & Pro/Pro II cards.
   These sound cards are much more noisier than the later generation of sound cards.
2. The 2nd generation of sound cards has the AZT-1605 chipset and all have an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface.
   Althought these cards do have the YMF-262 OPL3 chip (for stereo FM Synthesis), they only support Adlib (backwards compatible on the OPL3), Windows Sound System & Sound Blaster 2.0 (mono) on their DAC.
   For some reason, they do not support Sound Blaster Pro II under DOS (I've confirmed this via two different models which I own and that has the same chipset).
   If you want Sound Blaster Pro II compatiblity, then I would steer clear of these models.
3. The 3rd generation of sound cards has the AZT-2316 chipset and all models have an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface.
   These models supports Adlib, Windows Sound System & Sound Blaster Pro II.
   Of all of the models, these are my favourite as they are much less noisier and supports all of the major standards that one wants from a sound card under DOS (including an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface).
4. The 4th generation of sound cards has the AZT-2320 chipset and most models have an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface (I've come across listings on eBay of HP OEM cards that has this chipset, but I'm not sure whether they have an MPU-401 MIDI interface and they definitely do not have a Wave Blaster header - you can easily identify these cards via the "triangle" shape of the card).
   These models has the same support as the 3rd generation of sound cards, except that they are also Plug 'n Play.
   I have one 4th generation model (I38-MMSN853), being the Sound Galaxy Pro16III-3D PnP.
   I played around with it very briefly, but found that it gave me too much hassel in terms of its Plug 'n Play functionality under DOS.
   Other users might have a different opinion, but as I said, I only played around with it briefly, after which I decided to fall back on the earlier generation models.
5. All models that has an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface do not suffer from the so called MIDI hanging note bug (which is found on quite a number of Sound Blaster 16, 32 & AWE32 models).
6. The Waverider models do not have a Wave Blaster header, but has onboard General MIDI support (the first model used the ICS Wavefront MIDI sysnthesis chip, which didn't sound very good, whereas the later models used some kind of Samsung derived MIDI synthesis chip).
7. The CS4231A-KL/CS4248-KL EP and Analog Devices AD1845JP are all Audio codec chips and all of them have ADC & DAC, as well as built in Windows Sound System support.
   I'm not sure why Aztech used both the Analog Devices & Crystal Semiconductor (later acquired by Cirrus Logic) codec chips, but they both perform the same function.
   Other users here on Vogons (with more experience in this field) might be able to shed more light into which one was supposedly the best one, but it's probably also plausible that Aztech used these chips based on availability and as they became available to the market.
8. From all the cards that I've tested, the only one that I've come across that has reverse stereo output (for the DAC part), is model number I38-MMSN812 (the Reveal SC400 Rev.2).
   Neither my Sound Galaxy Basic 16 (I38-MMSN810) or 3rd & 4th generation models exhibited the reverse stereo effect.
   The 2nd generation models, as I've mentioned, do not support stereo DAC output under DOS (Sound Blaster Pro II).
   I have a Sound Galaxy NXPro on its way to me and will be able to tell you in a couple of weeks whether or not that model has reverse stereo output.
9. I do wish to mention that all of the 1st generation models (ending with "16") and later generations are full 16-bit stereo cards under Windows. It's only under DOS that they only support Sound Blaster or Sound Blaster Pro II.
   EDIT: For software that supports Windows Sound System, you might be able to get 16-bit stereo sound output under DOS (like some MOD players). However, I've had mixed results with this.
10. Most 1st & 2nd generation models had proprietary CD-ROM interfaces (much like the ones on the Sound Blaster Pro & early Sound Blaster 16 models) with some even having a SCSI interface, but later generations had a standard IDE CD-ROM interface.
    EDIT: I've come across third generation models (like I38-MMSN830 marketed by Trust) that has both proprietary & an IDE CD-ROM interface.

I love my Sound Galaxy Basic 16 (I38-MMSN810) as it makes for a great 386 or early 486 era sound card (and partly as it was my very first sound card).
The fact that it doesn't have an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface hasn't bothered me that much, since I've always paired it with a Roland MPU-401 MIDI interface or, you can just plug in another sound card that has an MPU-401 UART MIDI interface and then just disable all the other components on the card.
It's a bit noisy, but for me, this is part of the "fun" of experiencing the early days of sound output on a retro machine.

However, in my own personal opinion, the best "all rounder" will be one of the 3rd generation of Aztech sound cards (utilising the AZT-2316 chipset).
They have less noise and have excellent compatibility with the sound standards that I've mentioned above.
To be honest, having Disney Sound Source or Covox Speech Thing support is nice, but isn't that critical (how many games have you come across that only supports either these two standards and not Sound Blaster)?

Don't have time to go into detail, but some assumptions you made are just wrong while others are right of course.

The section in the ISA Soundcard overview document should include all Aztech cards, but the chipset details are not complete yet...

1AZTECH ISA SOUNDCARDS  (Sound Galaxy series:)
2---------------------
3SG BXII                   8-bit, AZTSB0792-U07, AZTDSP36 (intel N80C51BHP), OPL2, volume wheel.
4SG NXII/Extra             8-bit...
5SG NX Pro/Extra           8-bit...
6SG Nova 16                AZT1605...
7SG Nova 16 Extra          AZT1605...
8SG Orion 16               AZT1605...
9SG Pro16 II (1st)         AZT1605,  AD1845XP,   OPL3, AZT805-J94,  WBH, M-CD, expansion connector.
10SG Pro16 II (2nd)         AZT2316R, CS4231A-KL, OPL3, WBH, IDE, expansion connector.
11SG WaveRider 32+          AZT2316A, AD1845JP,   OPL3, AZT816,  ICS2125V  WaveFront, ICS2122M-001 WaveROM, IDE, M-CD, expansion connector.
12SG Nova 16 Extra II-3D    AZT2316*...
13SG WaveRider Pro 32-3D    AZT2316R, CS4231A-KL, OPL3, AZT3320 Wavetable, Samsung  KS0174 (Wavetable ROM), IDE.
14SG Pro16 III-3D PnP       AZT2320...
15SG WaveR. Pro 32-3D PnP   AZT2320...
16SG WaveR. Platinum-3D PnP AZT2320...
17SG NX Pro 16              AZT2320...
18SG SCSI                   AZTSSPT0592-U01, AZT-NXPMIX0592,  AZTDSP31H (intel S-81C51FANM), OPL3.

FGB wrote:

Don't have time to go into detail, but some assumptions you made are just wrong while others are right of course.

Any input would be appreciated, as my comments were based on what I read (or heard) while others were based on personal experience with specific model numbers.
Apologies for my very long post - the Aztech range of sound cards have always been a favourite of mine.

First of all the official index.txt listing the Aztech cards is incomplete.

I don't understand your point 2 with the argument that the cards have an OPL3 but only support Adlib. What do you mean exactly by this?
Also SB Pro 2 compatibility on third party cards do usually not reverse Stereo as it is actually a hardware bug of the SB Pro.
What you somehow miss out is if the card is either configured by jumper, only port by jumper and rest by software, or fully ISA PnP compliant.
Also missing is the internal PC Speaker capture.

elianda wrote:

First of all the official index.txt listing the Aztech cards is incomplete. […]
Show full quote

First of all the official index.txt listing the Aztech cards is incomplete.

I don't understand your point 2 with the argument that the cards have an OPL3 but only support Adlib. What do you mean exactly by this?
Also SB Pro 2 compatibility on third party cards do usually not reverse Stereo as it is actually a hardware bug of the SB Pro.
What you somehow miss out is if the card is either configured by jumper, only port by jumper and rest by software, or fully ISA PnP compliant.
Also missing is the internal PC Speaker capture.

• I agree that the official index.txt listing is incomplete, but in there it states which chipset falls into which generation, which make it easier to identify to which generation the various OEM models falls into. If you count the OEM models in, then it becomes quite an extensive list.
• Regarding point 2, I should probably have rephrased my sentence to state that is supports Adlib, Windows Sound System, but only Sound Blaster 2.0 (mono) via its DSP.
• There are third party Sound Blaster Pro II compatible cards that do exhibit reverse stereo output, one example being the Audician 32 Plus (based on a review by Phil).
  I actually opened up a thread where we discussed the reverse stereo output of model number I38-MMSN812, since I was initially surprised by this - Reverse stereo on Sound Blaster Pro & compatibles.
• I didn't want to go into further detail about how the cards are configured, since the list can also become quite extensive.
  From what I could gather and based on the ones that I own, most Sound Galaxy sound cards are configured by software, with only a jumper to configure the base port, microphone type and whether the sound card settings should be stored in EEPROM or not. The very first models were configured by jumpers (like your original Sound Blaster cards) and later models (4th generation) were fully ISA PnP compliant.
  There are sometimes jumpers for CD-ROM interface selection and also IRQ selection for the CD-ROM interfaces, but this is dependent on the specific model.

I filled some sound cards. Let me know which are missing ones from 1st - 3rd generation. I do not know what is this card I38-MMSD806 exactly for. And I did not find this card I38-MMSN815.

Now I have the time to add details to my previous post:

1. The list of the 1st generation of Aztech cards is incomplete (the Aztech cards listing is incomplete. It is just a referece of the available drivers from the Aztech FTP at a certain point of time.) The Sound Galaxy NX und BX are missing. The NX was Aztechs first card and it supports the Disney / Covox Virtal parallel port. The BX card is a stripped down version of the NX and therefor doesn't support Disney / Covox and lacks other things like the hardware mixer as well as the CD-ROM port.

2. The Aztech 1605 based cards do play stereo FM musik (SB Pro 2.0 compatible) with the OPL3 chip. Although, several users observed that 1605 based cards do not playback stereo PCM and various diagnose programs detect the DSP as a 2.0x version which indicated Sound Blaster 2 digital playback capabilities (SB Pro has at least DSP version 3.01). So it is a mixed card.

3. Jesolo assumed that the 1st gen of Aztechs cards support SB Pro 2 but this is not the case. Both NXm NX II, NX II Extra (all non-Pro cards) and all BX cards do not support SB Pro stereo and have a OPL2 chip for monaural FM music.

4. Jesolo assumed that the first Waverider 32 ICS Wavefront based card has inferior midi quality compared to the later Waverider with a relabeled Samsung synth.
But it's the other way around: Actually the original Waverider with the ICS synth features the same sample set as the Turtle Beach Tropez and Maui cards. Its 2MB VoiceCrystal Lite soundfont is regarded as a good soundfont for its size, featruring a nice sample quality and a good volume harmony throughout the patches. Of course it is not in the same ballpark as YRK (Yamaha,Roland,Korg) but it is a good soundfont for casual DOS gaming. The later Waverider with the rebranded Samsung synth offers an inferior sample quality and has only 1MB of patches. The samples sound tinny and noisy compared to the VoiceCrystal Lite on the original card, but also have a good harmony of the patches. If wanted or needed I would be happy to upload many samples ofr both cards for your 1st hand comparison.
The REAL drawback of the original Waverider was the software implementation of the wavefront synth. It needs a 37KB big TSR to run. But if loaded, the compatibility for real mode and protected mode games is quite good. Never had a problem in any old or newer game with the latest drivers that include updates for compatibility. The original waverider is quite a good overall card if you can live with the TSR. It offers SB Pro 2 , WSS, General Midi and has a genuine OPL3 chip. A nice standalone card.

5. Gerwins list is incomplete (see point 1) and also a bit confusing, naming the NX II Extra and the NX Pro "8-Bit cards" - Of course their PCM capabilies are limited to 8-Bit but the cards are made for the 16-Bit ISA slot.

6. The reverse stereo thing is a non issue. Elianda did well to explain the origin of the problem. Let me add a simple solution: If a game doesn't have a feature to reverse it back, just use a twisted audio cable. Don't mod your card, it's not needed.

Some additions from me to point 4:
I have a WaveRider with the Samsung synth and wrote up a few details here in my gallery: http://retronn.de/imports/hwgal/hw_sound_card … 38-mmsn853.html

So the point is that the card comes with the Endless WaveStream SoftSynth. Details are covered on the Links to the chips and the Press Release.

It is a late card and was right in the time where transition for cheaper cards was to software based synths (as with e.g. AWE64).

My impression of the Samsung Hardware Synth is that it can not keep up with a Roland SC. However it is decent in DOS and does not show weaknesses that break the music experience in games. I would compare it to an AWE32 with 1 MB ROM.

Sure you are right - the later Waveriders are no "real DOS" cards anymore, while the first Waverider was a true DOS classic with its well known ICS Wavefront Synth.
Regarding the Sample quality we may talk about different cards. You refered to the "Platinum" card (I38-MMSN853, the very last ISA-Waverider) while I was referring to the "Pro 3D" (I38-MMSN847), hence I was mentioning the relabeled Samsung synth. I suspect it might have the same ROM, but I'm not sure.
Do you have any recordings of the ROM of your "Platinum"? I could up some "Pro 3D" samples and we could compare. The "Pro 3D" samples are as said before well balanced, but the sample quality itself lacks quite some clarity. Maybe it has 8-Bit samples? I don't know...

I will come back to this posting later and add a link to my samples.

//edit: Later is now, my recordings are up. I also updated my initial review: http://www.amoretro.de/2014/07/aztech-waverid … -pro-32-3d.html
Maybe you can upload some of the tracks from your Platinum card for comparison, elianda?

to FGB,
I am going to add the missing cards into the Aztech table and extend the table for SB formats compatibility support based on informations from this thread and I have a few questions. What format do support these cards? Please check/correct me and fill.
BX - no Covox, no DSS, what SB compatibility do BX cards have? SB 1.0 or SB 1.5?
NX - Covox, DSS, what SB compatibility do BX cards have? SB 1.0 or SB 1.5?
BX II - SB 2.0, no Covox, no DSS
NX II - SB 2.0, Covox, DSS
NX II Extra - SB 2.0, Covox, DSS

and other cards from the 1st generation like NX PRo, NX Pro 16 and Basic Audio support these: SB Pro 2.0, Covox and DSS?

And what is this card I38-MMSD806 with these chips AZTPR16 / AZT-SG16MIX1092 for?
Jesolo wrote that his card I38-MMSD812 with the same chips AZTPR16 / AZT-SG16MIX1092 like I38-MMSD806 above does not support Covox and DSS.
And the L/R channel for SB Pro 2.0 are reversed. Is it correct? I can not to confirm it because the cards I38-MMSD806 and I38-MMSD812 are on the way to me.

Most or all cards from 2nd and 3rd genaration support only SB Pro 2.0, no Covox and no DSS.
And all cards from 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation have correct output (not reversed) of SB Pro 2.0 maybe except I38-MMSD812 and I38-MMSD806?
Edited: To Jesolo: Maybe the working MPU-401 UART interface/wave blaster header under DOS (exception from 1st generation) is because of an using the different chip AZT-SG16MIX1092 instead of AZTSSPT0592-U01.

jesolo wrote:

From all the cards that I've tested, the only one that I've come across that has reverse stereo output (for the DAC part), is mo […]
Show full quote

From all the cards that I've tested, the only one that I've come across that has reverse stereo output (for the DAC part), is model number I38-MMSN812 (the Reveal SC400 Rev.2).
Neither my Sound Galaxy Basic 16 (I38-MMSN810) or 3rd & 4th generation models exhibited the reverse stereo effect.
The 2nd generation models, as I've mentioned, do not support stereo DAC output under DOS (Sound Blaster Pro II).
I have a Sound Galaxy NXPro on its way to me and will be able to tell you in a couple of weeks whether or not that model has reverse stereo output.

Just a quick update on the Sound Galaxy NXPro (I38-SGNXPRO) that I received last week.
I struggled quite a bit to get this card to accept IRQ7, as it was quite picky and didn't want to share any resources with other devices in the system.
Eventually, I changed my LPT1 port (on my IDE controller card) to address 278h, since port 278h (by default) uses IRQ5 (378h, the default LPT1 port, normally uses IRQ7).
I then disabled the virtual parallel port on the card itself (since you don't require it if you already have a parallel port in your PC).
The card works very similar to my Sound Galaxy Basic 16 (I38-MMSN810), but this card unfortunately also exhibits the reverse stereo effect.
However, as already mentioned, a twisted audio cable can overcome this problem.

I am sorry that I did not have the time yet to answer the questions. I was busy working on my Sound Blaster Model Number Guide (http://www.amoretro.de/2016/07/creative-labs- … mmer-guide.html) and now think about making a Sound Galaxy Guide as well.

What you guys think about this idea?

I believe that Rabanik is already working on a similar project for the Aztech cards. Maybe he can just confirm from his side?

Regardless, I think it's a great idea. Aztech used to be quite a large sound card manufacturer back in the day and sold many sound cards.

PS: RGB, let me know if you happen to have the original installation disks for I38-SGNXPRO. Or, are they the same as for I38-MMSD802 that is on Aztech's ftp site?
The reason why I'm asking is that, although both models are Sound Galaxy NXPro cards, and the drivers on the ftp site (that they list are for I38-MMSD802) do work with model I38-SGNXPRO, the two models do look different.

I've got 1st gen Aztech Sound Galaxy NX II that was relabelled with "CPS Hamburg 1992" sticker, but you can see Aztech chip underneath.

The card appears on your list, but not as CPS, which was a German company that later got into court quarrel with Creative. They say it's simply Sound Blaster 2.5 clone, made because of market shortages in Europe.

I would say this 8-bit OPL2 card is absolutely fantastic. It has very good noise to signal ratio, but the thing I love most personally is that it emulates parallel port and acts as Disney Sound Source or Covox Speach Thing. I don't know other cards that have such capability.

It's also something unusual - 8-bit card with CD-ROM interface (not that I use it, but still).

More info here:
http://www.amoretro.de/2012/09/cps-sound-blas … laxy-nx-ii.html