Agreed on the sorry state of old PC gamepads. I've seen SNES and Genesis controllers connected via the parallel port before, using a custom adapter and driver for DOS (SNESKey). I guess it's got support for PS1 and some other stuff, too. Otherwise, there are suprisingly few attempts at converting console controllers before USB and Win9x.

It"s not easy.

Atari style joysticks and Sega pads (those with DB9 connectors) can be easily converted, but NES, SNES and PS use a serial protocol. That protocol needs a clock signal generated on the console side, and the PC joystick port has no output signal.

You'll need a converter (probably with a microcontroller) that emulates the behaviour of the console and translates it to PC joystick signals (with DB9 joysticks only some transistors and resistors are needed).

Or you can get/build a parallel adaptor. They only need a few resistors because the driver (snespad, directpafd , the Linux kernel mod) does all the job.

Zup wrote:

Atari style joysticks and Sega pads (those with DB9 connectors) can be easily converted

I don't believe I've ever heard of a DB9 converter that used the PC joystick port instead of USB or the parallel port. Have you seen such a thing? Such devices are digital-only, whereas PC joysticks are analog.

Look at this link --> http://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/pc_circuits.html

Jorpho wrote:

Zup wrote:

Atari style joysticks and Sega pads (those with DB9 connectors) can be easily converted

I don't believe I've ever heard of a DB9 converter that used the PC joystick port instead of USB or the parallel port. Have you seen such a thing? Such devices are digital-only, whereas PC joysticks are analog.

It is no different than insides of PC gamepads. Digital buttons/switches control which resistances are connected to PC, simulating a potentiometer being middle, left or right.

Jepael wrote:

It is no different than insides of PC gamepads. Digital buttons/switches control which resistances are connected to PC, simulating a potentiometer being middle, left or right.

PC gamepads that send digital signals are also incompatible with older games that expected an analog joystick.

Jorpho wrote:

Jepael wrote:

It is no different than insides of PC gamepads. Digital buttons/switches control which resistances are connected to PC, simulating a potentiometer being middle, left or right.

PC gamepads that send digital signals are also incompatible with older games that expected an analog joystick.

Some USB adapters have a function that converts a digital signal to the signals expected from an analog joystick. On the Sega Saturn USB adapter I have that function is activated by pressing a combination of two buttons on the gamepad. There is not reason such a converter couldn't be build for gameports.

This thread reminde me of an earlier one. :)
Gamepad/Joysticks on vintage hardware

These setups for digital controllers are trivial if you can solder:

1) You need to separate the physical inputs from the controllers PCBs, and house these PCBs of interest in their own enclosures. That is, the PCB should be connected, with its original lead and connector, to your system of choice. Consider this as one end of your PCB.

The other end of your PCB would have the digital inputs (direction, buttons) wired out to a standard connector of choice, like DB9/ DB15/ DB25.

2) The controller itself would be gutted, and its inputs wired out to a standard connector like DB9/ DB15/ DB25.

3) Make a cable, with pinout appropriate for your PCB of choice. This cable will have a standard connector at each end, e.g. DB9/DB15/ DB25, and will connect your controller to your PCB. If you standardise the pinouts by consistently grouping directional inputs and buttons, then you should be able to get away with one custom cable which connects your gutted controller of choice to your PCB (system) of choice.

The above may sound convoluted, but in practice, it's rather simple. For example, you can use your favourite SNES, Megadrive, Atari etc. controllers/ joystick and connect them to whatever system you like with digital inputs, including PC.

^ The problem with that idea is that on most controllers whatever is used on the original PCB is part of how the controller feels and reacts (especially on arcade controllers), which is why a converter box is preferred over gutting the controller.

Interesting that this thread came up, because I too felt the gameport gamepad situation a bit dire. I eventually built myself a Sega Genesis to Gameport adaptor and documented the process on my website.

Although the Genesis pad is ALMOST a simple discrete wiring (ala Atari pads), it has a multiplexer in for the extra buttons. So I just went with a fairly simple multiplexer solution to account for that.

Analog conversion just uses four resistors; two per axis and three discrete out lines for each. I could then switch the discrete out between 'driving 5V' or 'high impedance input' to simulate where the analog pot wiper would appear in the sequence.

yawetaG wrote:

^ The problem with that idea is that on most controllers whatever is used on the original PCB is part of how the controller feels and reacts (especially on arcade controllers), which is why a converter box is preferred over gutting the controller.

As long as the switch contacts remain intact within the controller, the feeling would remain the same. If the PCB is relatively heavy, then the feeling of weight can be replaced by simply adding some weight (e.g. metal) back into the controller. Or you can just leave the original PCB inside, modify the input routing and connect to a second external PCB, too. Obviously you'd need a second PCB.

Adapters/ converter boxes can introduce input lag, so this is avoided as well.

Depends on how quickly they operate. My Arduino solution has a polling loop of 2 ms. 60 Hz VGA only refreshes every 16.7 ms, so I get about 8 reads and refreshes every frame. As long as the device converts and outputs faster than the display, you aren't going to get any functional lag. If you actually scope a retro console (SNES or Genesis for example), they only poll the controller once per video frame; I'm sure most DOS games are programmed similarly. There's not really much point otherwise.

^^ Yes, it depends on the quality of the adapter/ converter. Laggy ones are out there. I came across a few for Dreamcast back in the day. The older systems should have less issues, however, many users don't even realise lag is introduced because they just get used to it after significant usage.

It also depends on the quality of the controller itself and the drivers used. For a PC-based fighting game I got a noticeably quicker response by using the (PS/2) keyboard to control it than when using a Logitech USB gamepad + Logitech's drivers (which clearly lagged). Later I switched to a Sega Saturn pad + USB converter and Windows XP's standard game controller drivers, and noticed no difference with the keyboard...