I had a couple way back in the day. The only problem was that you had to have a special mouse pad with a grid printed on it.

Looks like you can get brand new serial optical mice off of eBay for cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=isa+ps%2 … +mouse&_sacat=0

PS/2 to Microsoft Serialmouse Adapter Converter / Updated First Post / Firmware Update added

cyclone3d wrote:

I had a couple way back in the day. The only problem was that you had to have a special mouse pad with a grid printed on it.

Looks like you can get brand new serial optical mice off of eBay for cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=isa+ps%2 … +mouse&_sacat=0

Yes I saw those and from what I understand they don't work too well. I was wanting a traditional optical mouse that could work on a serial connection. So far though I do not see that in existence, unfortunately.

matze79 wrote:

PS/2 to Microsoft Serialmouse Adapter Converter / Updated First Post / Firmware Update added

Very interesting but soldering is something that I am awful at so building one is outside my skillset. Does anyone sell pre-built ones in some type of enclosure?

If this device works as well as stated I would be willing to pay someone some decent $$$ to have 2 or 3 built with come type of enclosure on them.

Another option is, of course, to get one of the higher quality serial trackballs; those are usually nicer to use than a ball mouse. I have a Kensington Expert Mouse 2.0 hooked up to my retro machine even though it has a PS/2 port. CH Products also has a pretty sweet one, but those are more expensive on the current used market.

I have a HP PS/2 optical mouse from the mid-2000s plugged into my DOS machine with a passive PS/2->serial adapter. There is absolutely no indication anywhere that this mouse supports the serial protocol, but it does. If you have a drawer full of PS/2 mice, just start trying them.

xjas wrote:

I have a HP PS/2 optical mouse from the mid-2000s plugged into my DOS machine with a passive PS/2->serial adapter. There is absolutely no indication anywhere that this mouse supports the serial protocol, but it does. If you have a drawer full of PS/2 mice, just start trying them.

What exact model number etc would this one have, I wonder ?

It's this one:

It's actually connected through a PS/2 KVM (the output cable from the KVM is connected to the PS/2->serial adapter on the DOS machine.) I just tried it directly connected & it doesn't seem to work that way. I suspect either the KVM is doing some signal buffering (likely) or translation (unlikely - specifically says in the manual that it doesn't support serial mice), or it's just providing the extra power that the optical mouse needs.
(EDIT: this was wrong - see below. It doesn't support serial mice for input but will output serial signals with a PS/2 mouse connected, essentially acting as a signal converter.)

You might be able to make one work with an adapter that taps a 5V line from somewhere to power the mouse? Not sure.

It is likely the KVM that converts the PS/2 to serial protocol. Those optical mice don't even have the serial protocol implemented AFAIK, because there is no point since the serial port can't power them.

That Compaq mouse looks suspiciously like a Logitech.

I hope its okay to bump an old topic.... I wanted to ask xjas the name/model number of the KVM he's using?

EdmondDantes wrote:

I hope its okay to bump an old topic.... I wanted to ask xjas the name/model number of the KVM he's using?

It's a MasterView Plus CS-9138 (this one.) I found the documentation after I posted above and confirmed it does do signal conversion, so you can plug a PS/2 (only) mouse in and it can provide a serial mouse signal to the PC through the PS/2 outputs (with a suitable adaptor.)

I haven't found a USB mouse that will work with it over a USB-PS/2 dumb adaptor though (even ones that I know support PS/2 signalling when directly connected.)

Sorry to bump this again. xjas, do you mind sharing more info on the PS/2 to serial adapter you use? It seems that multiple pinouts exist for these, and I'm considering getting that KVM for PS/2 to serial conversion. Would be nice to know for sure what signals the KVM expects.

Koltoroc wrote on 2017-06-06, 20:18:

...because there is no point since the serial port can't power them.

Actually, the serial port provides power but not enough for an optical mouse, which draws about 100 mA way higher than a regular serial mouse:

PC serial mouse uses typically DRT and RTS lines for generating +5V power for microcontroller circuit in the mouse. Because typical optomechanical mouse also needs power for 4 leds in the optocoupler movement detectors, there is not much power to waste. Typical PC mouse might can have the following power requirements: "+15V 4mA -15V 4mA" (taken from Microsoft mouse bottom).

This article is very interesting on how to draw more power from the serial port: https://www.epanorama.net/circuits/rspower.html

I have a wireless PS/2 mouse also serial compatible which draws about 70mA.

Would a serial port have enough bandwidth at a fast enough speed to be able to transmit the optical data ...Optical usually runs at a much higher DPI than any serial mouse can or could and requires a fairly fast data line. I wonder if the IC controlling the serial port would be the key here, possible to change it for a faster one ?

I guess what Im saying here is, is the refresh rate of your common serial controller high enough and fast enough to support the high refresh rate and DPI of an optical device ? regardless of the power issue that is.

PS/2 port bandwith is 7-12 kbit/s lower than what you can theoretically achieve on the serial port, but PS/2 can deliver 275 mA. I don't think the bandwidth is the problem...

Clearly ... since there are wireless solutions for a serial mouse, the same receiver can be used with an wireless optical mouse but I don't know if any manufacturer did bother to make such a couple...

Edit:

How about this AMIGA optical serial mouse? Is the DB9 port on the Amigas not standard?

Found this also. 😀

OMORES wrote on 2023-02-21, 14:02:

How about this AMIGA optical serial mouse? Is the DB9 port on the Amigas not standard?

No, Amigas work more like a bus mouse.

Caveats with older optical mice, I've had them and treated them as consumables back in the 90s. Firstly as mentioned there's the OG ones that need a special pad, secondly there are optical mice that don't need a "special" pad, many made up into start of millenium were like this, but they are picky about which surfaces they track on. "Normal" mouse pads for the time, you could generally see a fabric weave on them, and they were fine on this, but they hated a too finely grained surface. Think their "cameras" were too low resolution to pick up motion on something not very textured. Also they had weaker illuminators that had problems with certain colors. So I'm saying, be prepared, get a vintage optical mouse and it won't be 100% the same as using a modern optical mouse.

Another thing that might trip you up mixing newer peripherals to older hardware is that peripheral integrated CPUs like the 80188, V40, that might have been used in XT class models, and possibly some embedded 386 types, had a built in serial port, usually this is the first or only serial port on constrained form factor machines. This nearly mostly worked like a regular serial port, apart from when it didn't. So it may or may not play nicely with a serial mouse, with my suspicion that it's a bit current limited and opticals are likely to strain it.