VOGONS


Reply 20 of 33, by Falcosoft

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Hi,
Here's a new version of MSKVBEF7 that seems to work at least with Quake 1. It modifies the NumberOfImagePages field in the ModeInfoBlock structure.
More info in this thread:
Old+Modern videocards pure DOS benchmarking- which one is fastest?, need your numbers + analysis, 320x200 to 1600x1200!

Filename
MSKVBEF7_2.zip
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693 Bytes
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145 downloads
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Fair use/fair dealing exception

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Reply 21 of 33, by RayeR

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Thanks for your effort, it works, even for Blood and DND3D (and sure it will for all Build-based games too 😀
Good work. Now it is nice playable at 1600x1200 mode at 40-55 FPS.
You can add this utility to 1st post for other random visitors, maybe change topic name to mark we have a workaround now.

BTW I also tested vid_wait 1 option in quake and it turn on vsync in non-page flipping modes - I got FPS capped at 60Hz
For Ruthan: my time demo benchmark - 67,2 FPS @1280x1024 with MTRRLFBE, machine below exc. VGA is GTX670.

Last edited by RayeR on 2018-12-27, 18:28. Edited 1 time in total.

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GF7900GT, SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 22 of 33, by Falcosoft

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Thanks for your tests. I have modified topic's title and added download link to first post as you have suggested.
@RayerR: Now something completely different. We had a broken conversation earlier about MTRRLFBE not working under protected/V86 mode with some systems. Can we continue this, please? Original conversation:
X58 + Yamaha7x4/AureaV1/2 Sound-pure Dos7.1- compatibility list(+i865/VIA) +research+ultimate configs, WIP- gurus needed

@Edit: LFB WC performance problem under v86 mode confirmed by RayeR:
https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=15770

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Reply 23 of 33, by infiniteclouds

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When trying an A64+ 939 machine for high-res 98/DOS gaming the build engine games (Duke3D/Blood) gave me issues on my FX5900 Ultra and Geforce 4 Ti4200 -- I had to drop down to a Geforce 3 for them to work well without -- though the built-in FPS counter still 'lied' at certain resolutions. Is the bug mentioned here part of this or does this only apply to modern GPUs?

Reply 24 of 33, by RayeR

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No, in your case it is something different. This thread is about new GPUs GTX 5xx+, older was not affected.

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GF7900GT, SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 25 of 33, by ruthan

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I just tested with patch with My MSI Geforce 980, if it would fix that high resolution text modes bug with File Wizzard Filemanager and its still broken, so there has to some other bugs with these new Nvidia cards. Its not nothing special its just default FW mode, broken from Geforce 730 GDR5 above.

Picture is completely broken.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 26 of 33, by RayeR

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And what mode FW use? Does it have some config that you can select different mode that works OK? You can try ask FW author what modes he use and what VESA library/what functions to focus wehere the problem is...

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GF7900GT, SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 27 of 33, by ruthan

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I dunno details, but you can download my drivers and utils package, here is FW folder with File Wizzard with same settings which im using.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4g8snw60ouf1jzl/DRI … 181113.zip?dl=0

I already, tried to find details about FW author to try to find out, why when i try to start first program after its start and boot, it crashes and for second time run its all fine.. Its some hungarian guy with pretty generatic name, i wasnt able to find some working contact.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 28 of 33, by Falcosoft

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ruthan wrote:

I just tested with patch with My MSI Geforce 980, if it would fix that high resolution text modes bug with File Wizzard Filemanager and its still broken, so there has to some other bugs with these new Nvidia cards. Its not nothing special its just default FW mode, broken from Geforce 730 GDR5 above.
Picture is completely broken.

Hi,
I do not think this problem has anything to do with VESA. AFAIK NVIDIA never supported VESA Text modes at all or at least finished supporting VESA Text modes long before Kepler/Maxwell (my Geforce 6600 GT does not support any VESA Text modes at all either). The missing support is also reflected by FWIZARD since all the extra high resolution modes are disabled (it seems strange at first but green means mode is disabled and yellow means mode is enabled in FWIZARD).
This problem is triggered by a non-standard VGA Text mode when 8px character width is requested with 720x400/90x25 resolution. So this problem can be considered a bug but definitely not a VESA BIOS bug. And since this problem is related to a non-standard VGA resolution I consider this a not so serious issue.

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Reply 29 of 33, by ruthan

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I didnt check details about patch, i hoped its simply fix main Dos problems for these new Nvidia cards.

I have now Geforce 6600 GT in same machine, i thing that its from Gigabyte and its fine, im using FW as default FM, so i tested it with 50+ cards, ATI / AMD / Matroxes /S3/ 3Dfx.. all in my Dos videocards performance lists.. and Geforces from 4MX up to 730 DDR3 PCI-E all these new are ok, only these Nvidia with PCI-E gen 3 arent working with FW.
I never tested it with Geforce 4xx - 6xx line because i dont have these cards. I also dont have Radeons HD 7000 and newer.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 30 of 33, by Falcosoft

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i hoped its simply fix main Dos problems for these new Nvidia cards.

No, the patch is very specific in this sense as it can be read in its description:
'MSKVBEF7 is a TSR that masks/hides VESA VBE Function 07h - Set/Get Display Start. It can somewhat cure the rather serious VESA BIOS bug of Nvidia Kepler/Maxwell/Pascal series that can cause flickering/skipped frames under DOS programs that use hardware page flipping for double/triple buffering.'

I have now Geforce 6600 GT in same machine, i thing that its from Gigabyte and its fine, im using FW as default FM, so i tested it with 50+ cards, ATI / AMD / Matroxes /S3/ 3Dfx.. all in my Dos videocards performance lists.. and Geforces from 4MX up to 730 DDR3 PCI-E all these new are ok, only these Nvidia with PCI-E gen 3 arent working with FW.

Hi,
I have not said this non-standard VGA mode is also buggy with Geforce 6600 GT. I have just said that it's not buggy on Geforce Kepler/Maxwell because of VESA Bios bug since VESA Text modes are not supported by NVIDIA VESA Bios at all.

Here are some pictures what I'm talking about:
1.a. If VESA text modes are supported then you get something like this in FWIZARD:

vesatxt_support_fw.jpg
Filename
vesatxt_support_fw.jpg
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223.68 KiB
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961 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

1.b. And something like this in AIDA 'Graphics -> SVGA VESA Text Mode' section:

vesatxt_support_aida.jpg
Filename
vesatxt_support_aida.jpg
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88.19 KiB
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961 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

2.a. If VESA text modes are not supported then you get something like this in FWIZARD (as I said green means not supported):

vesatxt_nosupport_fw.jpg
Filename
vesatxt_nosupport_fw.jpg
File size
230.31 KiB
Views
961 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

2.b. And in AIDA:

vesatxt_nosupport_aida.jpg
Filename
vesatxt_nosupport_aida.jpg
File size
54.63 KiB
Views
961 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

In case of both Geforce 6600 GT and Geforce Kepler/Maxwell you get something like the 2. case: VESA Text modes are not supported at all.
But yes, Geforce 6600 GT and Geforce Kepler/Maxwell are different in the way that 720x400/90x25 non-stanard VGA mode is supported by Geforce 6600 but not by Geforce Kepler/Maxwell.
But this mode is not a standard VGA Text mode so the support is not 'demanded' by VGA standard:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA-compatible_ … mmon_text_modes
The bug is triggered on Geforce Kepler/Maxwell when you select any modes represented by the 4th yellow 'X' column in FWIZARD.
I mean these ones:

bug1.jpg
Filename
bug1.jpg
File size
60.03 KiB
Views
961 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

PS:

Its some hungarian guy with pretty generatic name, i wasnt able to find some working contact.

I'm also Hungarian so I can say he does not have a 'general' name as far as Hungarian names are concerned. On one hand 3 names are not so general in Hungary (the typical is 2) and overall 'Gulyás Antal Dénes' is rather distinguishable. I have found some reference and it seems he was an active member of the community of late famous 'Enterprise 128' era in Hungary, but I also could not find an active contact.
But it seems you can reach 'Laci' at http://www.ep128.hu/ and maybe he can help since one of his pages refer to a program written by 'Gulyás Antal Dénes' and Laci's site seems to be still active (last modification date is 2019.03.30.)
http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Leiras/Tetris.htm

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Reply 31 of 33, by ruthan

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Thanks for detail analysis of problem. So its rare case.
On paper, by the book, its not standard implementation, but if all other videocards manufacturers support these modes (and they do), its de facto standard mode, even older Nvidia cards supported them.

To author thanks for research, i will try to ask middleman, i only can tell that when i googled him, i find more than 2,3 guys with same name, im not sure its long time, but i maybe because i wasnt successfull with 3 names, only used first and last name not middle name.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 32 of 33, by RayeR

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Just don't wonder that newer cards has worse VESA implementation as it is common thrend to strip everything legacy down and focus on new stuffs - UEFI. During years Nvidia dropped various VESA features like refresh rate setting for CRT monitors, 8x14 font, etc. so we have to live with it or use some older VGA. I personally don't use this hires text VESA modes so I didn't meet this problem. As page flipping patch works for me I can live with GTX670 quite well. What I'm missing is accelerated driver for Win98 but it's diff. story...

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GF7900GT, SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 33 of 33, by sliderider

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RayeR wrote on 2018-12-22, 17:42:

Beside in Ruthan's thread Old+Modern videocards pure DOS benchmarking- which one is fastest?, need your numbers + analysis, 320x200 to 1600x1200! I found he stated:

Geforce 730 difference, i have two G730 cards, one with GDRR3 and one with GDRR5 - i though than difference would be only in memory, but card with GDRR3 has not blinking problem and working with VIA 880 chipset, GDRR5 card has blinking problem (again Q1 only Q2 same resolution is not affected) and not working with VIA no picture at all + broken Text modes in FileWizzard. It could be manufacturer or bios difference, slower if Gigabyte, faster is Zotac, its i also has 4 GB of VRAM what is of course useless on such card..

So this prove that not ALL modern nvidia cards are afected by this bug and there may be a chance to find also some 6XX BIOS that is not affected and could be flashed to GTX 670 after some mods. Or if I get a dump of good video BIOS from GTX 730 I can disassemble it and try to look for code of VBE func. 07h and compare it with bad version. Good function then may be used as a TSR or direct BIOS insertion patch...

Has anyone made any further progress on this issue?

Also, there are 96 core and 384 core versions of GT730 and versions with DDR3 and versions with GDDR5 to further complicate things. A GT730 card might not be a good card to test with due to it's split personality issues.