VOGONS


First post, by tpowell.ca

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hello all. So I've read in different places that the SC-88Pro has unofficial Yamaha XG compatibility.
I have not found any information explaining the method to enter this hidden mode?

Is it a special series of SysEx commands? or some combination of keys?
To what level is this mode/emulation of XG supported?

Thank you.

  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160, 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, ESS688, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB, HardMPU
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, GUS 16MB, Voodoo3-3k
    Einstein: P8P400, P4-3GHz HT, 1.5GB, Quadro4 980XGL, Live!

Reply 1 of 8, by derSammler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

It enters XG mode automatically if you send an XG reset. You'll see on the display as well as the bars will change to half height and showing 32 instead of 16 parts. The sound output however is very different from real XG, probably why it never was an official feature.

If you want to try, send F0 43 10 4C 00 00 7E 00 F7 to the device.

Reply 2 of 8, by SuperDeadite

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
tpowell.ca wrote:
Hello all. So I've read in different places that the SC-88Pro has unofficial Yamaha XG compatibility. I have not found any infor […]
Show full quote

Hello all. So I've read in different places that the SC-88Pro has unofficial Yamaha XG compatibility.
I have not found any information explaining the method to enter this hidden mode?

Is it a special series of SysEx commands? or some combination of keys?
To what level is this mode/emulation of XG supported?

Thank you.

Roland modules (including the 8850 and SD series with official support) only do XG Lite, meaning they can't understand anything more advanced then MU80. And yes, the instruments sound nothing like a real Yamaha.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2

Reply 3 of 8, by tpowell.ca

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Thanks. That clears that up.

  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160, 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, ESS688, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB, HardMPU
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, GUS 16MB, Voodoo3-3k
    Einstein: P8P400, P4-3GHz HT, 1.5GB, Quadro4 980XGL, Live!

Reply 4 of 8, by derSammler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
SuperDeadite wrote:

Roland modules (including the 8850 and SD series with official support) only do XG Lite, meaning they can't understand anything more advanced then MU80. And yes, the instruments sound nothing like a real Yamaha.

Not sure if the wording you've chosen is just awkward, or if it was intended, but that sounds as if you imply the MU80 does only XG Lite, too. The MU80 does full XG. Afaik, all Yamaha modules do, as XG Lite was just a reduced version that other companies could license.

However, we are talking about an unofficial feature here, so no idea how you can say the SC-88 Pro does XG Lite instead of full XG. It probably does neither and just used some incomplete, reverse-engineered pseudo-XG.

Reply 5 of 8, by SuperDeadite

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
derSammler wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote:

Roland modules (including the 8850 and SD series with official support) only do XG Lite, meaning they can't understand anything more advanced then MU80. And yes, the instruments sound nothing like a real Yamaha.

Not sure if the wording you've chosen is just awkward, or if it was intended, but that sounds as if you imply the MU80 does only XG Lite, too. The MU80 does full XG. Afaik, all Yamaha modules do, as XG Lite was just a reduced version that other companies could license.

However, we are talking about an unofficial feature here, so no idea how you can say the SC-88 Pro does XG Lite instead of full XG. It probably does neither and just used some incomplete, reverse-engineered pseudo-XG.

Basically:
MU80 = XG Level 1
MU100 = XG Level 2
MU1000 = XG Level 3

So in today's world "Full XG" = XG Level 3.
XG Lite = XG Level 1.

Though some units like MU90 fall between these levels.
XG Lite compatible modules like 8850 and SD90 are compatible with MU80.

Modules like 88 Pro, and NS5R are also "MU80 Compatible," they lack permission from Yamaha to use the XG name,
so are "secret modes." Just like how Yamaha called it's SC-55 GS compatible mode "TG300 B" until many years later.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2

Reply 6 of 8, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
SuperDeadite wrote:
Basically: MU80 = XG Level 1 MU100 = XG Level 2 MU1000 = XG Level 3 […]
Show full quote

Basically:
MU80 = XG Level 1
MU100 = XG Level 2
MU1000 = XG Level 3

So in today's world "Full XG" = XG Level 3.
XG Lite = XG Level 1.

According to specification the last equality does not hold.
E.g. in Yamaha XG Specification v1.23 from 1996 it's explicitly stated that MU80 supports insertion effects like Distortion, Overdrive, AMP Simulator and 3-Band EQ. While in Yamaha XG Specification v2.0 from 2001 it's also explicitly stated XGlite does not include Insertion effects or Multi EQ.

@Edit: Since I do not own hardware devices I can only test with S-YXG50 soft synth. It also has an XG Lite emulation mode. Midi files such as Butt Blower.mid/bi2_polkovnik.mid/Wah.mid use AMP Simulator and EQ effects and sound very good with S-YXG50.
But in XG Lite mode of S-YXG50 these effects are simply missing and these midis sound bad. It would be good if someone could test these midis on MU80 and XG Lite compatible SC devices.

Filename
XG_Effect_Test_Midis.zip
File size
48.83 KiB
Downloads
61 downloads
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 7 of 8, by igal

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2018-04-04, 16:43:
According to specification the last equality does not hold. E.g. in Yamaha XG Specification v1.23 from 1996 it's explicitly stat […]
Show full quote
SuperDeadite wrote:
Basically: MU80 = XG Level 1 MU100 = XG Level 2 MU1000 = XG Level 3 […]
Show full quote

Basically:
MU80 = XG Level 1
MU100 = XG Level 2
MU1000 = XG Level 3

So in today's world "Full XG" = XG Level 3.
XG Lite = XG Level 1.

According to specification the last equality does not hold.
E.g. in Yamaha XG Specification v1.23 from 1996 it's explicitly stated that MU80 supports insertion effects like Distortion, Overdrive, AMP Simulator and 3-Band EQ. While in Yamaha XG Specification v2.0 from 2001 it's also explicitly stated XGlite does not include Insertion effects or Multi EQ.

@Edit: Since I do not own hardware devices I can only test with S-YXG50 soft synth. It also has an XG Lite emulation mode. Midi files such as Butt Blower.mid/bi2_polkovnik.mid/Wah.mid use AMP Simulator and EQ effects and sound very good with S-YXG50.
But in XG Lite mode of S-YXG50 these effects are simply missing and these midis sound bad. It would be good if someone could test these midis on MU80 and XG Lite compatible SC devices.
XG_Effect_Test_Midis.zip

Hi.
I have make the test with My real [SC-88 Pro] with [USB to Midi Edirol UM-3EX] and the "Overdrive EFX" it's very nice with this music => Butt Blower.
I waiting Disquettes for make a comparison "Butt Blower.mid"with my real [QS-300 XG] and [SC-88 Pro SG] 😀

Nb: With "Cakewalk By Landlab", the Sysex effect it's bad with guitare instrument with this music. I dont know why!
Nb2: With "Windows média Player", the music and effects are perfets!

Have you an other music with "special Sysex" please?

Reply 8 of 8, by mattw

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Few days ago, I stumble upon an old application called VBSYX that provides "complete GS to XG conversion" and "complete XG to GS conversion".

It's doing it with converting the SysEx messages in the Midi file. Both Yamaha UK and Yamaha US supported VBSYX development as way to promote Yamaha XG as real competitor to Roland GS. that's why, my best guess is that the SysEx maps between XG and GS it uses are very accurate.

Also, it was kind of exciting and interesting to convert old Japanese RCP files with GS music to MIDI file and then from GS to XG and listed to them on Yamaha SW1000XG - I myself have no any Roland GS capable hardware.

In fact, I got sucked into the above, while researching different Yamaha S-YXG50 SoftSynth hacks/patches, because it's fully hacked including ability to use 16-bit high-resolution samples. That's why S-YXG50 is good candidate for GS emulator with the sound from real SoundCanvas ROM, but I am going off-topic, that's for the other thread, where the SC ROMs were descrambled...