VOGONS


First post, by Riddick48

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Hi, guys,

I have a computer configured like this:
Processor: AMD Athlon XP.
RAM: 256 MB.
Motherboard: Asrock K7S41 GX.
Bios: American Megatrend version 3.31a.
Bus Interface: PCI (no ISA).
HDD Master: 80 GB.
Slave HDD: 156 MB.
OS: Ms-Dos 6.22 only.

No Windows, nothing, just pure MS-Dos.

I'd like some advice or tips on buying a sound card to use with Dos games.

A big thank you for the friends who will help me.

Best Regards,

Tony.

Reply 1 of 12, by Joseph_Joestar

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An ESS Solo-1 will probably be the easiest to use on that setup. See Phil's review for more details.

Try to get one with a wavetable header in case you decide to add a daughter board like a Dreamblaster S2 later on.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 2 of 12, by Jo22

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I second that. The TTSolo has an advanced OPL3, also. And SB-Link.

Just one thing: By default, XP has a poor OPL3 driver installed. It has nothing to do with the TTsolo, though, it will even make a true SB 16 sound poor.

As a workaround, you can use an open-source OPL3/YMF262 emulation driver for Windows any time.
It will sound like a proper OPL3 Midi synth when used with Windows software.
Here's one version: https://github.com/datajake1999/OPL3EMU

Alternatively, just dual-boot with Win98SE and use the Ensoniq ESFM driver that comes with the TTSolo driver pack. It has much higher polyphony in native mode than the plain YMF262.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 3 of 12, by Kamerat

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I haven't had much success with the ESS Solo-1 and motherboards with SIS chipset. It also looks like SIS dropped DDMA support after the 962 series of southbridges but even on the 962UA the Solo-1 fails. The ESS Solo-1 runs very well on chipsets from VIA but then you have to get a new motherboard.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 4 of 12, by dionb

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-08-16, 20:57:

I second that. The TTSolo has an advanced OPL3, also. And SB-Link.

SBLink isn't going to help on a board without it. This thing will have to rely on one of the other DMA modes, with TSR.

Just one thing: By default, XP has a poor OPL3 driver installed. It has nothing to do with the TTsolo, though, it will even make […]
Show full quote

Just one thing: By default, XP has a poor OPL3 driver installed. It has nothing to do with the TTsolo, though, it will even make a true SB 16 sound poor.

As a workaround, you can use an open-source OPL3/YMF262 emulation driver for Windows any time.
It will sound like a proper OPL3 Midi synth when used with Windows software.
Here's one version: https://github.com/datajake1999/OPL3EMU

Alternatively, just dual-boot with Win98SE and use the Ensoniq ESFM driver that comes with the TTSolo driver pack. It has much higher polyphony in native mode than the plain YMF262.

Eh? Unless OP has totally changed his post it says:
"OS: Ms-Dos 6.22 only.

No Windows, nothing, just pure MS-Dos."

Tbh, this isn't an ideal DOS system. It's fast enough that any DOS program with speed issues will be showing them (and no DOS game requires even half the performance of this system with the slowest Duron you could stick in it), no ISA (or SBLink) and nothing of real added value to offset that.

Still, if you don't have anything more appropriate, you have to make do with what is available. I'd agree with ESS Solo-1, and indeed Terratec's TTSOLO-1 in particular. Note that there are many, many different versions of this card, some with wavetable header, some without. If you have basic soldering skills, you can safely choose one without: just solder in a 26-pin header and it works with no further hard or software tweaks.

Plan B just in case you can't source an ESS Solo-1 card or if it - more particularly the required DMA modes - doesn't work with the SiS 741GX chipset on that board (never tried that combo...) is to try a C-Media CMI-8378. Cheap as hell, quite nasty, but there is DOS support. Don't expect perfect compatibility though. Here again the Terratec Aureon cards are the best choice as they are at least well-made with good low noise levels.

Reply 5 of 12, by ElBrunzy

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I'm surprised no one suggested the yamaha ym724/744, maybe I missed something ? I never had good experience with ESS but I guess your mileage may vary...

Like dionb said, your computer is overkill and, for instance, you will waste time checking ram at every post, I'm pretty sure the max you will ever use is 64mb.

Reply 6 of 12, by Jo22

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dionb wrote on 2020-08-18, 12:41:
Jo22 wrote on 2020-08-16, 20:57:

I second that. The TTSolo has an advanced OPL3, also. And SB-Link.

SBLink isn't going to help on a board without it. This thing will have to rely on one of the other DMA modes, with TSR.

I know, most people tend to try the troublesome joyces first. 😉
They use Win98 to play DOS games.. Load EMM386 instead of using EMS boards and UMBPCI.. Boot MS-DOS 7.x.. Use Symantec software.. Build XTs..
That's why I mentioned it. As an optional feature. About all PCI soundcards with OPL3/SB compatibility features have TSRs/drivers included.

dionb wrote on 2020-08-18, 12:41:
Jo22 wrote on 2020-08-16, 20:57:

Alternatively, just dual-boot with Win98SE and use the Ensoniq ESFM driver that comes with the TTSolo driver pack. It has much higher polyphony in native mode than the plain YMF262.

Eh? Unless OP has totally changed his post it says:
"OS: Ms-Dos 6.22 only.

.. and ? 😀

It was just some extra information, because some people tend to test hardware under Windows first. Often see that on eBay..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 7 of 12, by dionb

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2020-08-18, 14:47:

I'm surprised no one suggested the yamaha ym724/744, maybe I missed something ? I never had good experience with ESS but I guess your mileage may vary...

YMF74x4 is great with SBLink, otherwise it has less options than an ESS Solo-1, so not so amazing for DOS only on a newer system.

Reply 8 of 12, by Joseph_Joestar

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2020-08-18, 14:47:

I'm surprised no one suggested the yamaha ym724/744, maybe I missed something ?

The YMF7x4 are great cards too, but it feels a bit of a waste to use them in pure DOS since you lose their excellent software wavetable and Sensaura capabilities, both of which are Win9x only.

You could possibly argue that genuine OPL3 is preferable to ESFM, but the difference between those two is minimal, especially compared to Creative's CQM or their SBLive FM synth emulation.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 9 of 12, by bloodem

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I have to say, for me and for the games I play, the YMF7x4 cards have always been more compatible than the ESS Solo-1 (unlike the ISA cards, where the AudioDrive 1868/1869 cards have been more compatible than the YMF71x cards).

For example, with the ESS Solo-1, in games such as Prehistorik / Dyna Blaster, the game completely freezes when the first digital sound is played back.

Here is a demo of the behavior (this is on an Athlon XP / socket A system, throttled to ~ 486 DX2-66 speed, however I tested this with multiple ESS Solo-1 cards on multiple platforms and the result is the same):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8hkEVd4MLg

In other games, such as Prince of Persia, there are no issues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0OE-mCjuyU

On the other hand, I didn't encounter such problems with Yamaha YMF7x4 cards. And even though they require an expanded memory manager for TSR, this has not bothered me, since all 100+ games that I tested work fine with DSDMA (well, almost all, Jazz Jackrabbit refuses to run when DSDMA is loaded, haven't found a solution for this yet).

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 10 of 12, by Stainlesscat

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Your motherboard supports DDMA so i would choose a pci sound card that has legacy features.

Your options are either these i've listed

1.Avance Logic als4000 "DDMA supported+it's own tsrless legacy mode"

2.Any Yamaha 7x4 series "DDMA supported, best choice for this particular chipset but you need the modified driver first or use Yamaha's proprietary DSDMA which uses EMS Protected mode"

3.ESS-Solo1 "T-DMA; ESS's proprietary tsrless legacy mode, but you need to mod pci registers to set it to that mode or it will revert to less functional DDMA mode"

4.ForteMedia fm801 "DDMA Supported, a tsr is provided for other features and doesn't need EMS protected mode"

And at last for chipset independent functionality, You can opt for an Aureal Vortex but it will require memory for it's tsr to emulate all sb functions. (NO EMS Required!)

Reply 12 of 12, by Stainlesscat

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Kamerat wrote on 2020-08-17, 12:38:

I haven't had much success with the ESS Solo-1 and motherboards with SIS chipset. It also looks like SIS dropped DDMA support after the 962 series of southbridges but even on the 962UA the Solo-1 fails. The ESS Solo-1 runs very well on chipsets from VIA but then you have to get a new motherboard.

i believe another forum member discovered that the final chipsets from SiS that supported DDMA were the 963 and the L "lan" revisions, future chipsets dropped support mentioned in one their legacy datasheets.