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Help with MSI KN72 DELTA 2 !

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First post, by Con 2 botones

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Hello reader,

I recently bought a MSI KN72 DELTA 2 MS-6570E (nForce2) from eBay, described as "tested and working".

It came very well packaged (electrostatic bag, foam, cardboard, etc) and it looked flawless (no bulging caps, cut bus traces, etc.)
It included an Athlon XP 2400+ with its cooler and 2 DDR1 400mhz 512MB modules.

MSI-MS-6570-E.jpg

Unfortunately, it didn´t work.
It turns on (The CPU and GPU fans spin) but no video signal is achieved. If I add a hard drive it is also powered on (spins).

My testings consisted in:

- The included CPU works ok (tested in another board of mine)
- The Ram modules included work ok (both tested in another board of mine)

- Other CPUs: Tried with an Athlon XP 2500+ , a regular Athlon Thunderbird 1333mhz and a Palomino 1200mhz, all known to work.

- Other RAM: A Gskill RAM set, 2X1GB (known to work) and a Kingston value module 1GB (known to work)

- Video Cards: Four AGP 8/4x cards (known to work) (3 nVidias and one Ati)
One PCI card (Radeon 7500), just in case the AGP slot became faulty

-Three power supply units: one is an old generic Pentium4 era PSU with 25A in the +12V rail and 45A in the +5V rail (with this one I power a MSI LM4AM with Via chipset and an Athlon 3200+ with no issues). Another one is a quite current Antec "High current gamer" 520W with 40A in the +12V rail and 24A in the +5V rail. Last one is an FSP brand, with 13A in the +12V rail and 30A in the +5V rail

- All contacts were cleaned, just in case.

- The board comes with a "D-Bracket" self test device. Only led 1 turns green the rest of the leds 2,3 and 4 turn red when motherboard is powered on.
Searched for the meaning of it but, to my understanding it (the explanations) turned out useless.

I can only think of two things, either it was damaged by electrostatic during the trip to my place, or the seller made a mistake about describing it as "tested and working" (I trust he didn´t lie, has excellent reputation and offered a refund when contacted about this issue).
If it is the former case, is there any chance to repair the board? Maybe it is another reason that is causing it not to work?

Any ideas may help. Thanks in advance!

Reply 2 of 29, by Con 2 botones

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Roman555 wrote on 2021-07-06, 14:59:

Hi!
Don't you forget to connect ATX 12V P4 connector of PSU (to one that is designated as JPW1)?
Also I would try to clear CMOS.

Oh, sure, forgot to mention that I cleared CMOS as the first step of the troubleshooting, then tried with another CR2032 battery.
Also, yes, I didn´t forget to connect the ATX 12V P4 connector, of course.

Thank you!

Reply 3 of 29, by Roman555

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It was nothing!

"led 1 turns green the rest of the leds 2,3 and 4 turn red" - the error means "Early Chipset Initialization".
It could be problem with chipset or with its proper connection to the PCB. Or ,maybe, wrong BIOS.

I would try to run the mainboard just on a desk (I mean to take out of a case) and without any pci/agp cards and dimms (of course with installed CPU).
IMO, in this testing case, the working motherboard should stop at code "all red but led 2 is green" = Memory Detection Test.

P.S. I've just read about this model on Russian site - the model is picky about memory. If it "doesn't like" memory the BIOS may corrupt itself in the worst case.

P.P.S According to cpu-upgrade the model doesn't support Palomino.
MSI site doesn't mention Palomino too.

Reply 4 of 29, by Con 2 botones

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Roman555 wrote on 2021-07-06, 16:34:
It was nothing! […]
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It was nothing!

"led 1 turns green the rest of the leds 2,3 and 4 turn red" - the error means "Early Chipset Initialization".
It could be problem with chipset or with its proper connection to the PCB. Or ,maybe, wrong BIOS.

I would try to run the mainboard just on a desk (I mean to take out of a case) and without any pci/agp cards and dimms (of course with installed CPU).
IMO, in this testing case, the working motherboard should stop at code "all red but led 2 is green" = Memory Detection Test.

P.S. I've just read about this model on Russian site - the model is picky about memory. If it "doesn't like" memory the BIOS may corrupt itself in the worst case.

Yes, all the testing was carried out outside of a case (over a wood desk).

"- the error means ´Early Chipset Initialization."
...that´s why I said it didn´t say much to me, it´s ambiguous.

"in this testing case, the working motherboard should stop at code "all red but led 2 is green" = Memory Detection Test."
Will try that, thanks!

"P.S. I've just read about this model on Russian site - the model is picky about memory. If it "doesn't like" memory the BIOS may corrupt itself in the worst case."
I initially tested it with the RAM modules the seller included (with which the system was "tested and working"). Then I tried the other modules listed in my post.
I guess if the BIOS got corrupted I have no means to reflash it, given the current state of the board, correct?

Once again, thanks a lot for your suggestions! I will report back how the testing (bare board, only CPU) you suggested goes.

Reply 5 of 29, by Roman555

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Con 2 botones wrote on 2021-07-06, 17:13:

I guess if the BIOS got corrupted I have no means to reflash it, given the current state of the board, correct?

Of course. Only a programmer or "hot-swap method" could recover corrupted BIOS . But the corrupted BIOS is just an assumption.

Reply 6 of 29, by Ydee

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This "mystery" is common in other MSI boards from this era (red PCB) too. I don´t know, what causes this problem, but I have two boards (KT3V and KT4AV), that behaved the same way - only the fans were spinning, D-bracket with three red and one green led (early chipset initialization), nothing more. I bought KT4AV on the understanding that it was listed as non-functional (for some spare parts - CPU cooler, memory, etc.), but after some time lying in the box with the backup CMOS battery out, after repeated testing, to my surprise, it ran up and booted properly. Now works without any problem, same KT3V. Only small issue is malfunctioning D-bracket on KT4AV - none led shining (no signal from header, led are functional). Maybe Your problem is same as mine.

Reply 8 of 29, by PcBytes

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BIOS corrupt would yield led 3 and 4 green, 1 and 2 red. I know this from my recently rescued K7N2 Delta-ILSR.

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 10 of 29, by PTherapist

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Could possibly be bad capacitors that don't necessarily look visually bad.

I also have an MSI K7N2 motherboard (running an Athlon XP 3200+) that occasionally likes to act just like this, turns on and no video signal or any other sign of activity. It always comes back to life after a short while and then once alive the issue does not occur again for quite some time.

Reply 11 of 29, by chrismeyer6

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PTherapist wrote on 2021-07-10, 17:26:

Could possibly be bad capacitors that don't necessarily look visually bad.

I also have an MSI K7N2 motherboard (running an Athlon XP 3200+) that occasionally likes to act just like this, turns on and no video signal or any other sign of activity. It always comes back to life after a short while and then once alive the issue does not occur again for quite some time.

How's the condition of your bios battery?

Reply 12 of 29, by Schule04

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MSI back then was not good at applying thermal paste. This board was semi dead.

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Reply 13 of 29, by PTherapist

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chrismeyer6 wrote on 2021-07-10, 20:33:
PTherapist wrote on 2021-07-10, 17:26:

Could possibly be bad capacitors that don't necessarily look visually bad.

I also have an MSI K7N2 motherboard (running an Athlon XP 3200+) that occasionally likes to act just like this, turns on and no video signal or any other sign of activity. It always comes back to life after a short while and then once alive the issue does not occur again for quite some time.

How's the condition of your bios battery?

New out of the pack. I used this particular board for one of my recent gaming builds, so I put a fresh battery in there. The issue hasn't happened for a long time now, so I've no idea what it was, but it did sound similar to the problem the OP is having.

Reply 14 of 29, by Horun

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Curious what PSU you are using ? I have some older ATX boards that will not start when using a newer (2010+) ATX PSU. Something about the expected ATX spec for the board is too old/ PSU spec too new for it to properly power up. Along that line is also the expectation of a very high 5v rail amperage that many new PSU cannot supply properly but am sure you are already aware of.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 15 of 29, by Ydee

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As he wrote, used generic P4 PSU with 45A on +5V rail, I think that won't be a problem. Even if they are not the same chipsets (KN series is with NForce, KT with VIA), symptoms are the same: no boot and stuck on state "Early chipset initialization" on D-bracket. He can try a start without CPU, if D-bracket status changes to 4 red LEDs ("Damaged or not properly installed CPU") or not.
It's not an uncommon defect in MSI mobos from that time: https://www.google.com/search?q=D+bracket+ear … iw=1920&bih=955

Reply 16 of 29, by Con 2 botones

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Thanks to @Roman555 and all the rest of you who helped with ideas and experiences. Sorry for the delay in the feedback, my newborn was priority these days.

I did try what Roman555 suggested about starting the board with just CPU and nothing more. Same results.
Then I tried what @Ydee recommended, starting the board without CPU. Same results as always.
Also tried what @PTherapist suggested, leaving the board aside without battery for some weeks. No success.
dbracket.jpg
In all cases the D-Bracket behaved the same: led 1 green, all the rest red. This is weird.

Anyway, I got sick of this board. I will have to consider it dead. Thanks to everyone for the support!