VOGONS


First post, by Nemo1985

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Hello good people, it's have been years that I'm looking for a defrag that works with msdos 7 without windows 98.
Obviously the defrag for 6.22 doesn't work because it's for fat 16 and without lfn support (which I avoid since I use dos 7 with 3.11 but anwyay), the freeods defrag would be the best bet but it doesn't work with the message: "I simply refuse to run in windows!" so it will probably need a recompile to remove the check.

Are there any alternatives out there?

Thanks.

Last edited by Nemo1985 on 2021-09-08, 12:53. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 14, by cyclone3d

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Found a forum post from 2008 that mentions a few:
http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=4713

Paragon Partition Manager 7.0.1274
WDe 0.31
Partition Commander

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 2 of 14, by Nemo1985

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Thank you for the tip!
I wasn't able to find the first program.
Partition commander doesn't seem to have the defrag option, it takes care of partitioning and some kind of cluster size optimization.
Wde 0.31 it has never been officially released.

Reply 3 of 14, by Joseph_Joestar

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I might be misremembering, but I think some version of Norton Utilities may have had a defrag program that ran on FAT32 partitions under Win9x MS-DOS mode.

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Reply 4 of 14, by Nemo1985

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-09-08, 05:09:

I might be misremembering, but I think some version of Norton Utilities may have had a defrag program that ran on FAT32 partitions under Win9x MS-DOS mode.

You could be right, I also remember that back in the days the windows 98 defrag wasn't that good and I tried an utility which ran from dos that allowed to defrag but obviously I do not remember the name.

I tried norton utilities 8 (for dos) it has a sort of defrag but it doesn't support FAT32, the newer versions require win9x to run.
I also tried to use setver to trick freedos defrag, but it mess with long file names and the lock command, in the end it does nothing.

I'm really out of ideas, probably it doesn't exist a program compatible with fat32 and dos7 which does not require windows.

Reply 5 of 14, by konc

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Defrag from freedos definitely works. You need to run lock beforehand and then it runs.
I'll check what version I have, maybe it's older or newer that yours but I've been using it for years.

Reply 6 of 14, by Nemo1985

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konc wrote on 2021-09-08, 08:56:

Defrag from freedos definitely works. You need to run lock beforehand and then it runs.
I'll check what version I have, maybe it's older or newer that yours but I've been using it for years.

I tried with lock command before loading defrag, it somewhat works, but it's quite limited, most of the options are greyed out:

freedosdefrag.png
Filename
freedosdefrag.png
File size
15.57 KiB
Views
358 views
File license
Public domain

That's the result:

02.png
Filename
02.png
File size
14.47 KiB
Views
358 views
File license
Public domain

It just sorts the files nothing more, it's v1.3.2

Reply 7 of 14, by Jo22

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FAT32 support never used to be good in FreeDOS, I remember.
Which is sad, because FAT32 was the dominant filesystem when FreeDOS had its heyday.

Speaking of it, I also remember an older thread of FAT-32 capable DOSes, btw.
A good FAT32 DOS, MS-DOS 7.1(Windows 98), DR-DOS Enhanced, FreeDOS?

Maybe it's possible to borrow some defrag utility fromt the other DOSes, not sure ? 😀

Alternatively, please have a look at the OLDMSDOS folder on the Windows 9x CD-ROMs..
Maybe the contain updated versions of DEFRAG, SCANDISK and so on.

Alternatively, please browse C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND folder.

Good luck!

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Reply 8 of 14, by konc

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OK so it runs.
I don't know about the greyed-out options, I always thought that they aren't implemented yet.
But it doesn't "just sort the files", it defrags them. It just doesn't move everything to fill the gaps from the beginning of the disk, like the "Full Optimization" would do.

Reply 9 of 14, by Nemo1985

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I tried dr-dos but the defrag is compatible with fat16 only.
As for freedos defrag, that options aren't greyed out if used in a fat16 unit, it's probably an implementation issue with fat32 and the freedos defrag.
On windows\command (win98se) there is no defrag.exe, Microsoft wanted us to use the windows98 defrag 😁

Reply 10 of 14, by Gmlb256

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-09-08, 10:52:

I tried dr-dos but the defrag is compatible with fat16 only.
As for freedos defrag, that options aren't greyed out if used in a fat16 unit, it's probably an implementation issue with fat32 and the freedos defrag.
On windows\command (win98se) there is no defrag.exe, Microsoft wanted us to use the windows98 defrag 😁

That's due to MS-DOS 7.x never being actually standalone and intended to coexist with a Windows 9x environment. 😉 Try replacing the Windows 98 DEFRAG.EXE with the one that comes with Windows ME since that one is faster if you haven't deleted the GUI.

One of the reasons why I don't bother with FreeDOS (I use some of their utilities though) is because of this. About 22 years and they can't get a properly working DEFRAG utility with FAT32 partition considering that they use that filesystem by default (FreeDOS DEFRAG was last updated in 2007!).

The "I simply refuse to run in windows!" message was poorly coded, it just actually prevents to run on versions higher than MS-DOS 6.22 without using SETVER instead of checking whether Windows is running or not.

Reply 11 of 14, by Nemo1985

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-08, 11:44:
That's due to MS-DOS 7.x never being actually standalone and intended to coexist with a Windows 9x environment. ;) Try replacing […]
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Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-09-08, 10:52:

I tried dr-dos but the defrag is compatible with fat16 only.
As for freedos defrag, that options aren't greyed out if used in a fat16 unit, it's probably an implementation issue with fat32 and the freedos defrag.
On windows\command (win98se) there is no defrag.exe, Microsoft wanted us to use the windows98 defrag 😁

That's due to MS-DOS 7.x never being actually standalone and intended to coexist with a Windows 9x environment. 😉 Try replacing the Windows 98 DEFRAG.EXE with the one that comes with Windows ME since that one is faster if you haven't deleted the GUI.

One of the reasons why I don't bother with FreeDOS (I use some of their utilities though) is because of this. About 22 years and they can't get a properly working DEFRAG utility with FAT32 partition considering that they use that filesystem by default (FreeDOS DEFRAG was last updated in 2007!).

The "I simply refuse to run in windows!" message was poorly coded, it just actually prevents to run on versions higher than MS-DOS 6.22 without using SETVER instead of checking whether Windows is running or not.

I fully agree with you, I use some spares utility from freedos too (fdisk, format, print and share).
I'm not using the windows 98 gui, I have installed msdos7 with windows 3.11 (modified version to work with dos7), another try could be install the win32 expansion for windows 3.11 and try to use the defrag from win98\winme, as you suggested, but I'm not sure I am ready to do that 😁

Reply 12 of 14, by konc

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-09-08, 10:52:

As for freedos defrag, that options aren't greyed out if used in a fat16 unit, it's probably an implementation issue with fat32 and the freedos defrag.

True, if you try to use for example the /F switch it'll tell you that this method is not valid on FAT32.
But I wanted to make sure it's clear that it does defragment the files even though it doesn't move everything to fill the gaps or to the beginning of the disk. So there is a DOS utility to defragment a FAT32 partition, just not perfect.

Reply 13 of 14, by Nemo1985

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konc wrote on 2021-09-08, 12:10:
Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-09-08, 10:52:

As for freedos defrag, that options aren't greyed out if used in a fat16 unit, it's probably an implementation issue with fat32 and the freedos defrag.

True, if you try to use for example the /F switch it'll tell you that this method is not valid on FAT32.
But I wanted to make sure it's clear that it does defragment the files even though it doesn't move everything to fill the gaps or to the beginning of the disk. So there is a DOS utility to defragment a FAT32 partition, just not perfect.

I respectfully doubt that, I used it to sort the files to do not use dir /o, despite I have selected complete quick try and the sorting method (name), it sorted nothing, plus when I use dir command after the defrag it takes a minute or so to output the command, imho the freedos defrag is completely useless.

Reply 14 of 14, by kaputnik

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-08, 04:54:
Found a forum post from 2008 that mentions a few: http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=4713 […]
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Found a forum post from 2008 that mentions a few:
http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=4713

Paragon Partition Manager 7.0.1274
WDe 0.31
Partition Commander

Nemo1985 wrote on 2021-09-08, 05:04:
Thank you for the tip! I wasn't able to find the first program. Partition commander doesn't seem to have the defrag option, it t […]
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Thank you for the tip!
I wasn't able to find the first program.
Partition commander doesn't seem to have the defrag option, it takes care of partitioning and some kind of cluster size optimization.
Wde 0.31 it has never been officially released.

I'm quite sure Paragon Partition Manager for DOS was on at least older versions of Hiren's boot CD, say version 8.x, 9.x or something like that. Might still be possible to find one of those and extract it?

A possible alternative solution to the problem would otherwise be to boot the system from another media, move everything off the partition you want to defrag, and then move it back again. Perhaps not very elegant or practical if you want to do it more often than now and then, but it would work.