VOGONS


First post, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Hi there, I am wondering about the differences of these cards in terms of performance and featureset.

1996 Millenium PCI MGA 2064W-R2 / IS-STORM R2
1996 Millenium PCI MGA 2064W-R3
1997 Millenium II PCI MGA-2164WP-C
1996 Mystique PCI MGA-1064SG-D
1997 Mystique PCI MGA-1164SG-A

Greetings
Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 1 of 8, by dionb

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Firstly those are hardly 'early' Matrox cards - Matrox had been making S-100, ISA and VLB cards for years before this. These are decidedly mid-period Matrox cards.

Secondly, how big the differences are depend a lot on what you want to use them for.

A) Matrox cards are mainly Windows accelerators, so DOS performance is going to be mainly dependent on memory fill rate, which is usually bottlenecked by the (PCI) bus. Expect near-identical performance there, as reported here
B) In Windows the 2D performance is strongly tied to core/RAM clocks as can be found here; Matrox cards were very fast at accelerated 2D desktop stuff.
C) 3D wasn't the cards' strong point. Performance was actually pretty good (see a lot of benches here), beating contemporary S3 and ATi competition in most benches - but features (fogging, filtering, blending, sometimes basic transparency and textures...) were lacking resulting in very poor visuals. Supposedly the Millennium II and Mystique 220 (MGA-1164) should be better, but still not up to par, even the low 1997 par.
D) analog image quality was and remains Matrox' strongest point. These cards had high-quality and (other than on the Mystique) high-end RAMDACs enabling high resolution and refresh rate settings and excellent analog filters and components to ensure crisp picture quality even at the highest supported resolutions and refresh rates. The hard specs were determined by the RAMDAC (see list from B again), and I can't find a modern RAMDAC clock to supported resolution/refresh table (if you can edit old .xls sheets, this one will do the job: http://www.cs.unc.edu/Research/ootf/FAQs/Video/GTF_V1R1.xls ), but bottom line the last Millennium I and Mil II with their 250MHz RAMDACs were vastly superior to the rest in this list and just about anything else in the PC market at the time, alllowing 1280x1024x24b@85Hz - and having the circuitry to do that without blurring, at least if your monitor and VGA cable were up to it. The worst of the lot would be the first Mystique, which had a 170MHz RAMDAC and so could manage max 1024x768x24b@85Hz - which was still better than what an average 1996 monitor could handle. By comparison, a 1996 S3 Virge had a 135MHz RAMDAC which could only handle 67Hz at the same resolution and colour depth, or 80Hz if you dropped to 16b colour - and then you just had to hope the card had good analog circuitry, which was rarely the case with generic S3-based ones. Later Virge/DX and /GX chips, and the ATi 3D Rage II integrated a 170MHz RAMDAC, equaling the Mystique.

Last edited by dionb on 2022-01-25, 17:34. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2 of 8, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Interesting read, thx. #

Is the millenium-core different from the mystique core. I saw some games that listed direct support for the mystique and some also listed millenium. That let's me think that the cores are therefore the features are not identical.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 4 of 8, by dionb

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
dr.zeissler wrote on 2022-01-25, 17:08:

Interesting read, thx. #

Is the millenium-core different from the mystique core. I saw some games that listed direct support for the mystique and some also listed millenium. That let's me think that the cores are therefore the features are not identical.

The 2D cores were basically identical. The original Millennium had a very limited 3D feature set (no texturing at all...), Mystique had an enhanced 3D core that could now texture, but still couldn't do filtering, fogging or anti-aliasing. The Millennium II basically backported the Mystique featureset to an enhanced version of the original MIllennium. Finally the Mystique 220 was just a clock-boosted Mystique.

Matrox supported early versions of Direct3D and had its own 'Matrox Simple Interface' (MSI) API on the Mystique (hence the difference between Millenniun and Mystique in those games) but tbh, unless you're curious about early, feature-poor and poorly supported 3D experiments that died out, treat all these cards as 2D only (something they once again absolutely excelled at), and add a Voodoo or even a PowerVR PCX (also marketed by Matrox as "M3D" even though totally unrelated to their own 3D stuff) if you want 3D.

Reply 5 of 8, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Thx, that was what I was searching for! Thx!

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 6 of 8, by kdr

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Millenium is a great card for NT4/95/98, blazing fast 2D acceleration and capable of very high pixel clocks, so it's a good match for a higher end CRT that can handle high hsync frequencies. (I really enjoy running 800x600 at 120hz refresh rate, it makes everything feel so so SMOOTH...)

Not so great for DOS, though, because: (1) the 2D acceleration isn't used by any DOS games, and (2) the card's video BIOS lacks most of the standard low-res video modes. And UNIVBE / VBEHZ / etc. don't seem to fix it either. And under DOS you'll be stuck with 60hz/70hz refresh rates for all the video modes. 60hz really sucks on a large CRT, especially when you've just exited from Windows running 120hz refresh...

Reply 7 of 8, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

No problem for me I always use lcd.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 8 of 8, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

interestingly rhapsody listed 2064W as supported but not 1064....

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines