VOGONS


First post, by justin1985

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For all the fiddling about with old PCs I’ve been doing recently, I keep coming back to wanting to combine retro with Small Form Factor PCs. I really like having a VIA EPIA miniITX (totally integrated with S3 graphics and legacy SBPro compatibility) as a DOS/Win98 box that is small enough to keep under my main desk.

I’ve been thinking about doing the same for Windows XP - an absolute minimum possible size ITX system, ideally with integrated graphics that are good enough to run mid to late XP era games (e.g. Medieval 2: Total War - one of several games I have images of my own old CDs but the copy protection gets blocked in Win10), as well as decent onboard sound and ideally Wi-Fi. What would be the best platform for that?

Narrowing down the sweet spot for XP driver availability crossing over with improving iGPUs seems a bit tricky. On the Intel side it looks like Ivy Bridge with chipsets like H61 are the final ones with XP drivers, and from what I can see from reviews, the HD4000 graphics that only came in the i7 and only one of the i5 CPUs was meaningfully better than the HD2500 that came with the rest of the range? Would it actually be playable in games like Medieval 2 though?

How about AMD’s final platforms with XP drivers? Would that be socket FM2? I can see chipset drivers for XP for the A88 chipset, but not for APU processors like A10, which it seems to get paired with? Would that mean going back a generation or two further?

The little ITX cases I like using (SKTC A09) can accommodate a (small) single slot GPU via a riser cable, but only if not using the 2.5” drive bracket, and if using a relatively low profile CPU cooler. So I’d kind of prefer to stick with onboard graphics, but a compact PCIe would be a possibility if it’s the only way of getting the kind of performance I’m looking for?

Reply 1 of 8, by SPBHM

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the HD 7660D found in the 5800k and 6800K FM2 CPUs has XP drivers, so I assume the whole platform works well enough on XP?

as for Intel HD4000 from 3rd gen CPUs seems to be supported and 4th gen HD4600 seems to work, perhaps the Iris variation also works (??) I do not know, but I think the 7660D being the best IGP with XP drivers is a safer bet?

Reply 2 of 8, by fosterwj03

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I'd say that the AMD integrated graphics would out-perform almost any Intel integrated graphics. Here's a comparison of integrated graphics from Anandtech:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devils-ca … -and-i5-4690k/4

It shows the integrated graphics of the AMD A10 processors with much better performance.

Reply 3 of 8, by elszgensa

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Some time ago I bought a GX-217GA (containing a Radeon 8280E) based thin client. But while XP drivers for this thing technically exist, they do not actually work (to be specific, most drivers for this platform do, just not graphics - if one is fine with adding a dedicated GPU then go ahead and grab one anyways). I then bought another client from the generation before that - G-T56N, Radeon HD 6310. This one works just fine, so there's your cutoff for (soldered, low power) AMD platforms. No idea how they stack up against Intel, Nvidia, ... though.

Reply 4 of 8, by justin1985

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elszgensa wrote on 2023-08-20, 20:00:

Some time ago I bought a GX-217GA (containing a Radeon 8280E) based thin client. But while XP drivers for this thing technically exist, they do not actually work (to be specific, most drivers for this platform do, just not graphics - if one is fine with adding a dedicated GPU then go ahead and grab one anyways). I then bought another client from the generation before that - G-T56N, Radeon HD 6310. This one works just fine, so there's your cutoff for (soldered, low power) AMD platforms. No idea how they stack up against Intel, Nvidia, ... though.

Interesting! Might these be HP T620 and T610 by any chance? I stumbled across Phil's video on the T620 and noticed he both installed XP, and got some pretty respectable results in games and 3D benchmarks - perhaps I missed whether the benchmarks were under Win10 rather than XP?

These early AMD APU based thin clients do seem pretty tempting, although the messy external power brick is a turn off compared to an ITX + flexATX psu build. Clearly they'd be knocked out of the water by a 3rd gen i5 - but is the T56N "good enough" for games c.2007?

Reply 5 of 8, by elszgensa

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The one that worked out is indeed a t610. The other one, a Fujitsu Futro S720.

I haven't done all that much with it tbh, or done any benchmarking, but fwiw: Unreal Tournament 2004 was fine, Advent Rising (2005) was fine most of the time but had some slowdowns when too much was going on. So I guess 2007's titles would be stretching it, unless you're willing to drop the resolution.
It's outside of the scope of this topic, but - some thin clients have expansion slots that can accept dedicated (though usually only low profile, and bus powered) GPUs which should perform much better.

Reply 6 of 8, by Baoran

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Anyone has any idea how well would nvidia gpu on motherboard like Asus P5N7A-VM work for such purpose? I think it was released in 2008 so it most likely should still have XP drivers.

Reply 7 of 8, by justin1985

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I don't think I've seen any nVidia nForce based Intel boards for ITX?

I watched several eBay auctions for Ivy Bridge based ITX motherboard/CPU bundles, and got a good seller offer for an MSI H61 based board with an i5 3570T, which I went for.

There are some videos on YouTube of gaming on this CPU and it's integrated HD2500 graphics which look pretty respectable in games which are a bit more modern than I'm aiming for, so hopefully this combo will work out. If not, I can get a PCIe riser cable and add a basic GPU.