There are no sockets for any L2 cache chips and the chipset probably doesn´t support it 🙁

Normally if a 486 motherboard supports L2 cache it will have a bank of sockets for adding cache chips. Unfortunately this board does not have that.

Looking at other boards that have the same chipset, it looks like none of them have L2 cache options.

majestyk wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:36:

There are no sockets for any L2 cache chips and the chipset probably doesn´t support it 🙁

Yeah. Interesting, as I've seen those boards with soldered-on 486SX CPU that are barely wider than the ISA slots that have no cache sockets, but not a normal-sized board like this.

Your oscillator, in the top right corner, is 50 MHz, so I suspect actually have a 486DX2-50 underclocked. Your chipset is probably a hybrid 386/486 one that is dividing the clock frequency in half when in 486 mode, only for the DX2 to double it again. Replacing that with a 66 MHz one--if your chipset can handle it--would get you something more approaching a cached 486DX2-66. If your memory is fast enough (60ns or 70ns) you might check for any BIOS options to decrease DRAM wait states also.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:46:

Your oscillator, in the top right corner, is 50 MHz,

You're assuming that the photo on theretroweb is an exact photo of OPs board.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:46:

majestyk wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:36:

There are no sockets for any L2 cache chips and the chipset probably doesn´t support it 🙁

Yeah. Interesting, as I've seen those boards with soldered-on 486SX CPU that are barely wider than the ISA slots that have no cache sockets, but not a normal-sized board like this.

Your oscillator, in the top right corner, is 50 MHz, so I suspect actually have a 486DX2-50 underclocked. Your chipset is probably a hybrid 386/486 one that is dividing the clock frequency in half when in 486 mode, only for the DX2 to double it again. Replacing that with a 66 MHz one--if your chipset can handle it--would get you something more approaching a cached 486DX2-66. If your memory is fast enough (60ns or 70ns) you might check for any BIOS options to decrease DRAM wait states also.

That picture on the website is rather old. I have long since replaced the oscillator with a 66.000mhz one and the benchmarks were taken with it installed

I also have memory wait state disabled in the bios advanced setup.

weedeewee wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:49:

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:46:

Your oscillator, in the top right corner, is 50 MHz,

You're assuming that the photo on theretroweb is an exact photo of OPs board.

It is, I provided the photo to the website, it was taken before I swapped the oscillator out.

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:49:

That picture on the website is rather old. I have long since replaced the oscillator with a 66.000mhz one and the benchmarks were taken with it installed

I also have memory wait state disabled in the bios advanced setup.

I guess you could go for broke and overclock to a 486DX2-80, though you would want to account for cooling if so. There was an "official" 5-volt 486DX2-80 from Cyrix.
Beyond that you probably want to swap out for a better board. The systems you are comparing against probably have local bus video in addition to cache.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:54:

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-24, 20:49:

That picture on the website is rather old. I have long since replaced the oscillator with a 66.000mhz one and the benchmarks were taken with it installed

I also have memory wait state disabled in the bios advanced setup.

I guess you could go for broke and overclock to a 486DX2-80, though you would want to account for cooling if so. There was an "official" 5-volt 486DX2-80 from Cyrix.
Beyond that you probably want to swap out for a better board. The systems you are comparing against probably have local bus video in addition to cache.

It's hard for me to swap to another board but I'll try. When I check Ebay they're all either "for parts" or have $50 shipping because I live in Canada. But if that's the only option I guess I have to.

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-24, 22:05:

It's hard for me to swap to another board but I'll try. When I check Ebay they're all either "for parts" or have $50 shipping because I live in Canada. But if that's the only option I guess I have to.

I've had good luck with the "for parts" ones from Ukraine that come in batches every now and then at low prices. They seem legitimately "untested" as opposed to it doesn't work so "untested."

Is there a particular "era" you are going for? 486dx2-66 was usually paired with VLB video card (either onboard like on an LPX board or a card) so as pointed out, cache isn't the only thing you're missing here.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-08-24, 22:09:

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-24, 22:05:

It's hard for me to swap to another board but I'll try. When I check Ebay they're all either "for parts" or have $50 shipping because I live in Canada. But if that's the only option I guess I have to.

I've had good luck with the "for parts" ones from Ukraine that come in batches every now and then at low prices. They seem legitimately "untested" as opposed to it doesn't work so "untested."

Is there a particular "era" you are going for? 486dx2-66 was usually paired with VLB video card (either onboard like on an LPX board or a card) so as pointed out, cache isn't the only thing you're missing here.

I was eyeing this one idk if it's good https://www.ebay.ca/itm/285435332943 which seems like a good deal to me, $80, $30 shipping and $50 product, but apparently it doesn't start, and I don't see a cmos battery anywhere, and I am willing to pay for good quality products

I found this PC for free somewhere so I decided to try to use it to make a 486 gaming PC, I just want something to play games on and it's kind of janky to play them on my pentium 3 systems because they run so fast and I have to use specific programs to slow down. I just like to run games on the original hardware and experiment, I couldn't get any VLB cards since the board of course has no VLB so I had to make do with ISA cards, and I read that et4000 was good.

As for cooling, the CPU gets hot enough to burn my fingers when it's running, I attached a small heatsink (not big enough 🤣) to it with some thermal paste which seems to help a bit but the edges still get hot. I can probably find some junk heatsink from a random motherboard to put on it

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-24, 22:30:

I was eyeing this one idk if it's good https://www.ebay.ca/itm/285435332943 which seems like a good deal to me, $80, $30 shipping and $50 product, but apparently it doesn't start, and I don't see a cmos battery anywhere, and I am willing to pay for good quality products

Could be good for a 486DX2-66. Because it is 5 volt only you might have less competition for it than those who want to build a DX4 or 5x86 system. And so maybe the price will drop.

I don't even see a place for a battery, either; maybe the external battery header was used?

Because the BIOS chip lacks the foil sticker covering the window, maybe it has been erased by UV light and that is why it wouldn't start. That could be a relatively easy fix if you have a programmer but getting all this stuff could become a money-pit. e.g., that board has 128K cache so you might turn around and upgrade it to 256K, so that's another ebay buy+shipping for the chips.

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-24, 22:30:

I was eyeing this one idk if it's good https://www.ebay.ca/itm/285435332943 which seems like a good deal to me, $80, $30 shipping and $50 product, but apparently it doesn't start, and I don't see a cmos battery anywhere, and I am willing to pay for good quality products

The BIOS chip (EPROM) is missing it's foil sticker which means the EPROM could have a corrupted BIOS program. If you have an EPROM programmer, you could always rewrite it (provided it was fully wiped first) or program a whole new chip.

The caveat if that if there is another issue with the board, you'd have to then diagnose and repair it, which can be time-consuming.

If you just want something that works, it's often better to just spend money on something that has been properly tested and get what you want the first time.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/394429821172?mkcid=16 … emis&media=COPY

Thinking this one now. $128 CAD (I'll try to offer lower) and it's tested. Seller claims you can only use 5v CPUs with it but the documentation seems to have a CPU voltage selector jumpers so I don't know what that's about. I don't think it has 50mhz fsb though, most of the other ones seem to have it, I don't know if that'd be a problem.

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-25, 04:08:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/394429821172?mkcid=16 … emis&media=COPY

Thinking this one now. $128 CAD (I'll try to offer lower) and it's tested. Seller claims you can only use 5v CPUs with it but the documentation seems to have a CPU voltage selector jumpers so I don't know what that's about. I don't think it has 50mhz fsb though, most of the other ones seem to have it, I don't know if that'd be a problem.

It´s 5V only, the voltage regulator (LT1085) is missing.

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-25, 04:08:

I don't think it has 50mhz fsb though, most of the other ones seem to have it, I don't know if that'd be a problem.

It's only an issue if you wanted to run a CPU like a DX-50 which uses a 50MHz FSB. However, those CPUs are a bit rare and expensive.

What is your overall goal with the board?

If performance is the goal then getting a motherboard that can support a wider range of CPUs (like DX4-100 for example) would give you more upgrade options in the future if you wanted to move past a 486 DX2-66.

IDK if the notch in the corner of the speedsys graph is 1kb of chipset L2 cache just barely doing something or not.

Anyhoo, if the challenge is "make the system extra more betterer using only this motherboard" I'd go something like, try to find a rare 5V 16Kb L1 486, double the L1 woohoo. Might not work on that board though. Then stick an ISA GL5434 graphics card in it, and a low latency Compact Flash card will speed up disk access.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-08-25, 13:14:

It's only an issue if you wanted to run a CPU like a DX-50 which uses a 50MHz FSB. However, those CPUs are a bit rare and expen […]
Show full quote

Ten3O wrote on 2023-08-25, 04:08:

I don't think it has 50mhz fsb though, most of the other ones seem to have it, I don't know if that'd be a problem.

It's only an issue if you wanted to run a CPU like a DX-50 which uses a 50MHz FSB. However, those CPUs are a bit rare and expensive.

What is your overall goal with the board?

If performance is the goal then getting a motherboard that can support a wider range of CPUs (like DX4-100 for example) would give you more upgrade options in the future if you wanted to move past a 486 DX2-66.

Thats exactly what I was thinking, I want to account for future upgrades. I do want performance, but I don't want to upgrade so far that games run too fast, which is why I got this in the first place.