VOGONS


3 (+3 more) retro battle stations

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Reply 580 of 617, by pshipkov

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Feipoa, forgot to answer your question about glue - i use the blue bottle Loctite - the gel one - supposedly their strongest.

That all time favorite soundfont loads here in less than a minute - it is really not a big deal.

---

Spent some more time on looking at temperatures. I am getting quite the grip on the whole thing.
Figured that bigger heatsink/fan at lower voltages (5V) is better than smaller heatsink/fan but higher voltages (12V).
Revisited the CPU cooler once again. Used Vortex Tornado fan with P3 heatsink. Cut some of its rows of fins in an iterative way with testing in-between until find the right size.
Turned out well. Apparently the previous instability with heavy computation with tightest L2 cache timings (2-1-2) was related to the CPU being within the temperature threshold - 22C.
With the new setup - ~18-20C. Still kept the silicon around the CPU helps for preventing water condensation. Will updated the original post with photos of the contraption.
For now just replaced the interactive graphics video showing the thing in action and the posted perf numbers with the usual tests.
Experiencing moment of satisfaction - system is at absolute max, yet completely stable.
Time to move onto other things.

retro bits and bytes

Reply 581 of 617, by feipoa

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pshipkov wrote on 2021-09-13, 06:56:

Feipoa, forgot to answer your question about glue - i use the blue bottle Loctite - the gel one - supposedly their strongest.

Normally the red is considered "high strength" and blue as "medium strength". For your application, I would use the weakest glue that holds it on sufficiently.

pshipkov wrote on 2021-09-13, 06:56:

That all time favorite soundfont loads here in less than a minute - it is really not a big deal.

Are you referring to the Masterpiece soundfont? That 45 seconds load time occurs at every boot. If that doesn't bother you, you have a lot more patience than me. In my opinion, using a DreamBlaster x2 or XR385 is a much leaner solution, works in DOS, more compatible, and sounds a little better. I do have a few systems with AWE64's though, just to add some variety and play with soundfonts.

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Reply 582 of 617, by pshipkov

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I use this one. It is advertised as strong, but still gel, so does not leak everywhere.

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I don't load that or other fonts all the time. Only when get the itch for it.
Never tried these modern retro sound cards. They seem useful. Maybe one day. For now I am playing it traditionalist - some isa card and sound canvas.

What your sound setups look like ?

retro bits and bytes

Reply 583 of 617, by feipoa

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I have too many setups to remember all the configurations. One day I should create an Excel sheet of all my setups. I like variety in graphics, sounds, and HDD controllers. I recently acquired (for cheap) a Magic S32/S23 card, which has a Yamaha OPL3 and Crystal CS4232 FX chip, just to add some variety to a new build. I don't have any setup with a Crystal sound chip. I remember my Dell Workstation had a built-om Crystal chip which sounded like crap, so I'm not sure what to expect with the Magic S32. Maybe these Magic cards are decent?

My favourite setup for sound quality and compatibility is something with OPLSAx3 (e.g. Audicain 32plus) with an NEC XR385 daughterboard. Example of the Audicain, https://www.philscomputerlab.com/audician-32-plus.html , however because the wavetable connector sits so low, I had to create a bracket and cable to transition it up. It was a pain. However, this Magic card has the wavetable connector high enough up.

About 10 years ago, there seemed to be an endless supply of the XR385 card on eBay. They were selling for, I think $25 only. Like a fool, I only bought two. Also, those Audicians were like $10 shipped a few years ago, then *poof*.

If you want to get better DOS midi on the AWE64Gold/Value, Serdashop has this "Chil'n Phil" adapter for the game port. You can connect an S2 or X2 via the gameport, but I found it annoying how the S2 would stick out. I decided to rotate it 90 degrees here: Rotating the Chill and Phil midi adapter for a smoother finish . From the minimal volume of replies in that thread, I guess this type of rotation isn't very popular.

You loose the game port, but can add a dual-port game card. After all that effort, I noticed that I could only get some games to work properly with the S2 on the game port (in DOS). I'm not sure why. For this reason, I tend to prefer an OPL3 card with the NEC XR385 (general midi clone).

Seeing those photos of the AWE64Gold reminds me I need to create a 3.5 mm stereo jack on a slot bracket for that setup. I do not like those RCA to 3.5 mm adapters.

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Reply 584 of 617, by maxtherabbit

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feipoa wrote on 2021-09-13, 08:05:
Normally the red is considered "high strength" and blue as "medium strength". For your application, I would use the weakest glue […]
Show full quote
pshipkov wrote on 2021-09-13, 06:56:

Feipoa, forgot to answer your question about glue - i use the blue bottle Loctite - the gel one - supposedly their strongest.

Normally the red is considered "high strength" and blue as "medium strength". For your application, I would use the weakest glue that holds it on sufficiently.

pshipkov wrote on 2021-09-13, 06:56:

That all time favorite soundfont loads here in less than a minute - it is really not a big deal.

Are you referring to the Masterpiece soundfont? That 45 seconds load time occurs at every boot. If that doesn't bother you, you have a lot more patience than me. In my opinion, using a DreamBlaster x2 or XR385 is a much leaner solution, works in DOS, more compatible, and sounds a little better. I do have a few systems with AWE64's though, just to add some variety and play with soundfonts.

Why are you watching your computer boot? Just turn it on and walk away

Reply 585 of 617, by BitWrangler

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Or enable DOS multitasking... that's where you have a swivel chair and can turn around to the system that's responsive at the moment.

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 586 of 617, by pshipkov

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I have 0 WT daughterboards.
Relying on external SC brick.
Unfamiliar myself with the whole sound card add-ons myself, but interested in reading the sound forum about it.

BitWrangler - hah.
On a related note:
Bill Gate's son asked him "Can you show me the multi-tasking capabilities of Windows 95 ?".
"Sure, but give me a moment to finish formatting this floppy disk ..."

retro bits and bytes

Reply 587 of 617, by Caluser2000

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...

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-09-13, 13:25:
feipoa wrote on 2021-09-13, 08:05:
Normally the red is considered "high strength" and blue as "medium strength". For your application, I would use the weakest glue […]
Show full quote
pshipkov wrote on 2021-09-13, 06:56:

Feipoa, forgot to answer your question about glue - i use the blue bottle Loctite - the gel one - supposedly their strongest.

Normally the red is considered "high strength" and blue as "medium strength". For your application, I would use the weakest glue that holds it on sufficiently.

pshipkov wrote on 2021-09-13, 06:56:

That all time favorite soundfont loads here in less than a minute - it is really not a big deal.

Are you referring to the Masterpiece soundfont? That 45 seconds load time occurs at every boot. If that doesn't bother you, you have a lot more patience than me. In my opinion, using a DreamBlaster x2 or XR385 is a much leaner solution, works in DOS, more compatible, and sounds a little better. I do have a few systems with AWE64's though, just to add some variety and play with soundfonts.

Why are you watching your computer boot? Just turn it on and walk away

......and go and have a coffee.

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There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 588 of 617, by maxtherabbit

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-13, 16:22:

...

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-09-13, 13:25:
feipoa wrote on 2021-09-13, 08:05:

Normally the red is considered "high strength" and blue as "medium strength". For your application, I would use the weakest glue that holds it on sufficiently.

Are you referring to the Masterpiece soundfont? That 45 seconds load time occurs at every boot. If that doesn't bother you, you have a lot more patience than me. In my opinion, using a DreamBlaster x2 or XR385 is a much leaner solution, works in DOS, more compatible, and sounds a little better. I do have a few systems with AWE64's though, just to add some variety and play with soundfonts.

Why are you watching your computer boot? Just turn it on and walk away

......and go and have a coffee.

exactly

Reply 589 of 617, by feipoa

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pshipkov, are you able to quote the part number of your peltier? Seems that various manufacturers use the same numbering scheme, that is TEC1-12708, or 12704, 12702, etc. Knowing this could save time for other users who want to replicate your setup. I am experimenting with a 12704 now but am going to order the 12702 to see if it is the min. spec. TEC I can use.

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Reply 590 of 617, by pshipkov

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TEC1-12715
Bought them from this ebay seller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/382589937284

Btw, can you confirm your findings around UUD and GF2 MX400/440 ?
I think you mentioned something like: they work for VGA/VESA/GDI, but not OpenGL/DirectX.
Is that correct ?

retro bits and bytes

Reply 592 of 617, by feipoa

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My notes indicate:

PNY GeForce2 MX400 64MB
Win95c
NVIDIA Detonator v12.41 for Am5x86, however I was unable to get Direct3D working (e.g. Outlaws, MDK). OpenGL works with the Am5x86 with v12.41, however Direct3D games will require a POD.

AMD Am5x86-160 - GLQuake (nosound, 640x480x16) = 26.7 fps [with sound at 1280x1024x32 = 24.4 fps]
AMD Am5x86-160 - QuakeII (nosound, 640x480x16) = 15.5 fps

I wouldn't have test results if I didn't get it working. I have that graphics card in my dual P233mmx system now, but I can pull it if you need me to test something in particular, or just test it again?

Oh my, 12715 - that thing seems overkill. The *15 indicates maximum DC amperage for the pad at voltage. The weakest is 12702, which I have on order. 12704 worked fine in preliminary tests. All of which models did you experiment with?

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Reply 593 of 617, by pshipkov

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Thanks.
Were you able to make LSD work with them, or only used UUD as a host ?
I was unable to get OGL + MX400 + LSD + Win95 + any driver version (including 12.41) to cooperate.
Will check soon how things go with UUD.

About the Peltiers - this is the only model i got and made it work one way or another.
Notice that some of the ebay sellers have the parameters of some models wrong - they list same 12715 specs.
That misled me at the time which led to the conclusion that the numbers in the name don't have specific meaning.
Later realized that they do matter, but since i had some Peltiers already just rolled with them.

retro bits and bytes

Reply 594 of 617, by feipoa

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Those results were with UUD. My notes for SiS 496 (I think on a 4DPS) were:

The BIOS menus moved really slowly like on the UMC-based motherboard. The computer past POST, however himem.sys got stuck. Further testing is required.

re: peltiers
If you are using the 12715, it would explain why your AT connector pins are so hot. What is the current rating on those wires? It may be stamped on the cable, but if not, there should be a means to determine it from gauge, metal type, and cladding thickness.

My 12702 order says it won't be here until October, so my update on this won't be for some time. Digikey has some of these peltiers, probably better brands.

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Reply 595 of 617, by pshipkov

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The 450W PSU currently in use says:
5V - 36A
12V - 22A
Pins are actually ok.
The 300W PSU was getting hammered hard. 😀

4DPS is a bit janky, i was able to go further with LSD, but still no OGL. Will try one last time tonight.

retro bits and bytes

Reply 596 of 617, by feipoa

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I was referring to the current rating of the individual wire, not the collective total for the 12 V rail on the PSU. In particular, the single wire you are using to power the peltier. See this: https://www.multicable.com/resources/referenc … per-conductors/

There is usually a temperature stamp on the cable, along with the gauge. If your cable gauge is 18 AWG with insulation max temp of 80 C, then max current for that particular wire is 15 A. If you are using a floppy molex, those are often 20 AWG, so max current is 10 A. Your peltier is 15 A at 12 V. I suppose you could gang up two floppy molex pins to run the peltier.

EDIT: I've also seen some cables stamp on the max current. One of my molex cables says 6A, which I assume is the max current capacity.

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Reply 597 of 617, by pshipkov

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5V rail from big molex to the Peltier, so 300V / 18AWG / 80C.

I think in diameters.
Had to look what AWG is.
Reminded me of this:

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But then - it is those that use the metric system, and those that have landed on the Moon. 😉

retro bits and bytes

Reply 598 of 617, by maxtherabbit

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Imperial units weren't designed to be self referential and consistent, they are based on the metrics of the human body. An inch is about the width of an average Male thumb, a foot is a foot, a yard is a stride. Fahrenheit delineates the range of generally experienced air temperatures from 0-100.

They are very practical and intuitive in this way

Reply 599 of 617, by feipoa

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At any rate, you should measure the current draw on the wire that you are powering the peltier to ensure that you aren't overloading the cable. If you are close to the rated capacity, you might want to rethink how the peltier is connected, or use a less powerful peltier.

I have re-confirmed that the v12.41 detonator driver works with GLQuake on an Am5x86. At 160 MHz, I get around 27.5 fps. UUD board.

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