Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-21 @ 04:52

Many instruments like Organ and Harpsichord don't respond to velocity changes because the real instrument also doesn't.
This is not related to SC-VA but a general question about midi, you are probably at the wrong forum with these questions.


Clarify what? Different SC units sound different, what's your point? (don't answer, both are rhetorical questions). :blah:
I don't care what SC unit you think Comanche 3 (or any other game) was written on, and so does Roland Corporation.
Stop asking me to ask Roland with your nonsense, I will do so only if I think it's right.
Give this subject a rest.

Here you can see what SC units support General Midi 1 (GM): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Sound_Canvas
Under the Standards column, if you see GM it means that this specific unit fully supports GM.
With SC units of the past the user could select different Map Modes even in GM.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-21 @ 08:21

Thank you.
I thinking , whats SC-7 and SCB-7 were the cheaper version of SC-55 and partialy limited by instrument map.
And I thinking what SC-7 , SCB-7 and RAP-10 yet not fully compatible with General MIDI standard devices.
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 208
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-21 @ 09:07

Actually SC-7 is a pure GM only unit (no GS), but it still has 6 drum kits from GS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_SC-7

You can hear that for yourself here: http://www.wavetable.nl/?cat=4
Descent Level 1 uses TR808 drum kit, Duke Nukem 3D Intro uses Power drum kit, both sound fine on the SC-7 which is a GM only unit.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-21 @ 14:15

If SC-VA full compatible with SC-8820 / SC-88Pro / SC-88 , from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Sound_Canvas , as create patches shown here http://www.synthmania.com/SC-880.htm ?
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 208
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby thecrankyhermit » 2016-5-21 @ 20:27

On games, is there any hope of a workaround for games that use Capital Tone Fallback? I don't 100% understand how this works, and I'm sure VA doesn't do CTF, but maybe there's a way to "trap" the MIDI calls on their way to Sound Canvas VA, detect a CTF attempt, and send the capital tone instead when an invalid tone is detected?
Running:
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
Core 2 Duo 2.53Ghz
Geforce 9600 GT
2GB RAM
thecrankyhermit
Member
 
Posts: 157
Joined: 2006-5-12 @ 03:47

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-22 @ 06:56

thecrankyhermit wrote:On games, is there any hope of a workaround for games that use Capital Tone Fallback? I don't 100% understand how this works, and I'm sure VA doesn't do CTF, but maybe there's a way to "trap" the MIDI calls on their way to Sound Canvas VA, detect a CTF attempt, and send the capital tone instead when an invalid tone is detected?

It can be done with a specialized midi driver.
The midi driver will receive and compare a requested patch change (CC00 & PC) with its own internal (or custom) GS map, if there is no match the driver will send a capital tone patch request making CC00 always 0.
Not a hard thing to do , but I lack the skills. Maybe someone more experienced that actually written midi drivers.
Last edited by James-F on 2016-5-22 @ 10:36, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-22 @ 10:32

Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48207
Lets help the author to make the best midi player around.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-22 @ 11:36

Question:
SC-VA instruments patches in this synthesizer fikxed or can modifed and make user patches from samples include SC-VA ? If possible , a as ?
I'm known , whats it possible in MT-32 and MT-32 emulator include MUNT )
There is however limit for SC-VA , because SC-VA not have user memory )
Thanks.
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 208
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-22 @ 12:08

If I understood you correctly, you can create Presets/Banks and Save/Load them in SAVIHost, that is a global feature of VST.
Although in SAVIHost you don't have a visible preset list like in other VST host programs like a DAW.

I don't think you can create Patches like in the SC-880 inside SC-VA, and you don't need to, SC-VA is not hardware.
In any case, Patches or Presets are 100% equivalent, one is in hardware the other is in software, so to speak.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-22 @ 13:41

As integrate user patches in sysex if possible ?
And as editing patches in SC-VA ? For Example as combine samples any Choir and Distortion Guitar in single instrument ?

Edit :

Also fixed error if select drumsets in VST Plugin in other map сham that is used before for example if user select drum set Power in SC-55 map while used Power drumset SC-8820 map drumset not be selected. This error be only in VST plugin if VST plugin 1.02 and older )

James-F
Please ask Roland about capabilities integrate SC-8850 Map in SC-VA.
Verry wanted be have top map in SC-VA if this possible.
Thank You :happy:

Edit2 :

I found not a critical error.
If select patch map as SC-8820 and play this file METBLAS9. File arranged for SC-88Pro/8820 Maps.
If now play this file as SC-88 Pro / SC-8820 Map - error not detected , but if play this file in SC-55 map , errors in GUI and play.
I think , what if selected SC-55 Map , must play first 354 sounds and if sound not available in map , then need play patch in bank 0 or the nearest , not piano or sounds of other map. As if this will be device which select in map )

James-F
Please pay attention to the message
Attachments
bug.part2.rar
(3.33 MiB) Downloaded 45 times
bug.part1.rar
(5 MiB) Downloaded 49 times
METBLAS9.zip
(8.87 KiB) Downloaded 40 times
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 208
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Falcosoft » 2016-6-02 @ 08:48

Hi,
thecrankyhermit wrote:
On games, is there any hope of a workaround for games that use Capital Tone Fallback? ....
James-F wrote:
It can be done with a specialized midi driver.
The midi driver will receive and compare a requested patch change


Or it can be done with a player that can also be used as a router/mapper.
I have thought about this problem and realized that instrument definition files(.ins) actually include the necessary information when a fallback is needed. This way no manual mapping is necessary you only need to download/create the ins file for the synth. Many can be found on the net for Roland devices.
I have made a test video to demonstrate the idea/implementation.
https://youtu.be/PrKfDTjvKDs

Test version of the app can be downloaded from
http://falcosoft.hu/midiplayer_351_test.zip

Roland User wrote :
I think , what if selected SC-55 Map , must play first 354 sounds and if sound not available in map , then need play patch in bank 0 or the nearest , not piano or sounds of other map

This problem also can be solved this way.
User avatar
Falcosoft
Oldbie
 
Posts: 914
Joined: 2016-5-21 @ 13:46
Location: Pécs, Hungary

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-6-02 @ 08:59

This what I do manualy with Midi-OX, but Im sure it can be done MUCH better with your player and custom map.

Have you seen this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=37047
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-6-04 @ 08:50

Fellow SC-VA/Synth users and MIDI music/game lovers, I'd like to point your attention to a great software called Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player.

Image

Official FSMP thread on Vogons: http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48207

This software is the most complete and fully implemented Midi Player and Instrument Mapper (input to output).
Many new features have been included in the new version, making FSMP the best midi player on the market.

The latest version supports Capital Tone Fallback feature using official instrument maps (customizable) to prevent wrong instrument variations
resulting in no sound or wrong sound with various synths including the SC-55 (hardware) or Microsoft softsynth GS.
Moreover, it includes Drum Patch Fallback (on any track) so it will always fallback to the next lowest correct drum patch from the wrong one.
You can play music written on a later model than SC-55 and have an equivalent capital tone instead of silence.

Instrument Maps.png


Just assign FSMP Input Midi, Output Midi and Instrument Map, and you have a full solution to CTF with Music, Games, or any other input including real midi synths.
For example, you can route Dosbox through FSMP to SC-VA and have CTF without silent, incorrect instruments or drums in games that have composition errors or "lazy programming".
You can use you real retro PC and real SC-55 unit with a USB->MIDI dongle and a spare laptop running FSMP, or any combination of the above.
Help and support in the official FSMP thread.

Step by step guide to CTF with SC-VA:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48207&start=80#p502706

You are welcome to the FSMP thread to help us debug the test builds and continue to improve this player and its functionality.
Last edited by James-F on 2016-6-10 @ 10:21, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-6-09 @ 17:29

Why in sequancer i'm not can set pan level as RND value 0 gives offset in left channel and SCVA = L63.

As set value in RND ?
Attachments
problem.rar
(3.64 MiB) Downloaded 45 times
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 208
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby KainXVIII » 2016-6-10 @ 09:42

James-F wrote:Fellow SC-VA/Synth users and MIDI music/game lovers, I'd like to point your attention to a great software called Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player.

Official FSMP thread on Vogons: http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48207

This software is the most complete and fully implemented Midi Player and Instrument Mapper (input to output).
Many new features have been included in the new version, making FSMP the best midi player on the market.

The latest version supports Capital Tone Fallback feature using official instrument maps (customizable) to prevent wrong instrument variations
resulting in no sound or wrong sound with various synths including the SC-55 (hardware) or Microsoft softsynth GS.
Moreover, it includes Drum Patch Fallback (on any track) so it will always fallback to the next lowest correct drum patch from the wrong one.
You can play music written on a later model than SC-55 and have an equivalent capital tone instead of silence.

Instrument Maps.png


Just assign FSMP Input Midi, Output Midi and Instrument Map, and you have a full solution to CTF with Music, Games, or any other input including real midi synths.
For example, you can route Dosbox through FSMP to SC-VA and have CTF without silent, incorrect instruments or drums in games that have composition errors or "lazy programming".
You can use you real retro PC and real SC-55 unit with a USB->MIDI dongle and a spare laptop running FSMP, or any combination of the above.
Help and support in the official FSMP thread.

You are welcome to the FSMP thread to help us debug the test builds and continue to improve this player and its functionality.


I wish that Phil make a new video about how to setup Roland plugin with your player (for games mainly), because its too convoluted for me ^_^
User avatar
KainXVIII
Member
 
Posts: 331
Joined: 2015-5-20 @ 15:04
Location: Yaroslavl

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2016-6-10 @ 09:48

All this goes right over my head also :blush:
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-6-10 @ 09:59

Nothing complicated at all.

Watch this "Roland MT-32 CM-32L and General MIDI for $50" video by PhilsComputerLab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvuncHhza5A

To use with real retro PC and SC-55 hardware:
Instead of Midi-OX use Falcosoft Midi Player and set it's Midi-Input to your USB-MIDI IN and Midi-Output to your USB-MIDI OUT.
It even loads soundfonts using bassmidi so you save yet another software.
FSMP CTF.png

Connect the USB-MIDI OUT to your SC-55 or any other midi synth.

To use CTF follow this step by step post (mainly step 3):
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48207&start=80#p502706
Last edited by James-F on 2016-6-10 @ 10:18, edited 6 times in total.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2016-6-10 @ 10:05

Thank you!

That's what everyone needs to know :)

We wouldn't be at this stage without your efforts of working with Roland to sort out the bugs.
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2016-6-10 @ 11:22

Hey everyone, can we please not upload any modified Roland SCVA software to Vogons!

Thank you!

If you have any concern about this please send me a PM.
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby KainXVIII » 2016-6-10 @ 11:39

Ok, still its little cumbersome to install all that stuff, maybe i just stick to Phil's solution :blah:
User avatar
KainXVIII
Member
 
Posts: 331
Joined: 2015-5-20 @ 15:04
Location: Yaroslavl

PreviousNext

Return to Sound

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: amalgim and 1 guest