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20ns Cache vs 15ns Cache on 486 computer ?

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Reply 20 of 24, by Deunan

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For 386 cache timings are simple, there is read and possibly separate write waitstate settings. 20ns chips should be enough for 33MHz unless the chipset is not very good. People often forget that there is a tag chip as well and it has to be checked first, so the timings of tag and data stack. This often means 20ns is just on the line with 40MHz operation and might not be fully stable, but also will not trip very often.

With 486 there are burst memory cycles, these are twice as fast as on 386 (there is only one addressing cycle). Which means both the cache chips and the chipset must be fast enough to present data on each cycle, rather than every second one. Most mobos deal with that by introducing extra WS or, if you have two cache banks, with interleaving. Though banking often slows down addressing, which means a 386/486 mobo can be made faster for 486 by populating both banks and going 3-1-1-1 (instad of 2-1-1-1), while 386 would prefer 2-x-x-x since it doesn't care about x (no burst) but 3- is way slower than 2- even with the extra bank of cache.

And then there are DLC chips that, for some reason, tend to trip the 20ns cache that worked OK with 386 and need 15ns. Point here is, it's often difficult to tell if the "it was working before" statement was actually true, it could have been marginal but not yet crashing. Any small change, including room temperature, can affect that. If in doubt always try 15ns chips, and the tag should be the first to be replaces (assuming it wasn't 15ns already). And in general if the mobo has two cache banks, populate both for 486.

Reply 21 of 24, by Ydee

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I strongly recommend replacing the barrel battery, if it is still original - they like to leak and the electrolyte eats up the routes and components on the board.

Reply 22 of 24, by pshipkov

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I have a later revision of this motherboard.
Posted details here.

The part relevant to your question:

AMI BIOS with the clunky windows UI. All settings on max. Requires 15ns or lower latency L2 cache for 1-1-1 burst read/write cyc […]
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AMI BIOS with the clunky windows UI.
All settings on max.
Requires 15ns or lower latency L2 cache for 1-1-1 burst read/write cycles.
Very picky about SRAM chips. Was not able to make it work with 1Mb L2 no matter what.

The BIOS has cache timing options. Let me know if you want to give it a try.

retro bits and bytes | DOS media library

Reply 23 of 24, by Intel486dx33

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Ydee wrote on 2021-06-10, 10:43:

I strongly recommend replacing the barrel battery, if it is still original - they like to leak and the electrolyte eats up the routes and components on the board.

Yeah, that’s another thing I need to fix so I guess I have no option but to take this computer apart and fix the problems.
1) New Cache
2) New RAM
3) New Battery

Reply 24 of 24, by Intel486dx33

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Okay, turns out I had mis-matched cache ram speeds that was causing the computer not to perform well.
I am just using 16mb of 60ns ram now and the computer performs good.
I think the CPU is the bottle neck now.
I had to leave it at “1” for DRAM speed in bios as set to “0” would cause the computer to crash.
But that is okay because VideoCD Movies play good with no stuttering.
And Audio sound better now to.

I am testing it out now to confirm its stability.
But I think this 486 CPU can perform no better.

So the problem was NOT the Cache but mis-matched ram that was causing instability and poor performance.