creepingnet wrote on 2021-06-17, 16:12:

Let's just say I used to work for these guys and got to run Windows 8, 8.1, and 10 before they were released. Reading through the posts, seems consistent with my experience that the "Bloat" gets added on after the beta releases.

When Windows 8.0 was in Beta, I installed it on a Toshiba Techra M7 with 4GB of RAM and a Core 2 Duo at 2.6GHz and a flip touch screen. It frickin SCREAMED on that laptop! Once the final release came out though, I might as well have moved back to 7 because a lot of that performance was lost with all the additional crap. When 10 was in beta it was the same experience.

Pray tell, where might we find some of these unbloated "betas" today? Would love to try them.

I found LTSB to be moderately usable from virgin install, but even it could be stripped quite extensively. Anything > 1 GB of RAM used upon initial boot is absurd and ridiculous. It takes a full day or longer to wipe out *some* of the bloat on a full Win10 install. Rubbish like Cortana, Search, Games, telemetry, Defender (hell, I can download my *own* malware utility software, if I need it!), maps, fonts, Microsoft store and all the other bullshit.

It is a good time to start to learn to use VMs to play games ... bravo 😉 They may not offer enough performance for semi-modern games, games that are originally qualified & approved for XP+, but here at VOGONS we are enthusiasts of "Very Old Games" anyway. 😉 Perhaps GPU pass-through could be simpler if Microsoft decided to support it for WHPX or Apple decided to support it for HVF and all GPUs support SR-IOV, not just the enterprise class. Or Intel would bring something similar to their exist GVT-g for the Windows ecosystem for GPU sharing. Intel could have really done it if GVT-g would be redesigned to remove its dependencies on VFIO-mdev and be more tightly coupled with Intel HAXM. "Windows on Windows" would then be a reality to play any games without any concerns to always keep the Host OS updated.

I don't like the new taskbar with centered icons. I really hope it will be possible to tweak it to more resemble the taskbar of Windows 95 thru Vista, as can be done in Windows 7-10.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-17, 21:57:

Did I mention using common sense at all.

I never had issues with Win98 or XP using the interweb.

Neither did I. And I have never used an antivirus on both Windows and Mac. The only AV I have ever used for a brief period of time was Panda, when I was on XP 20 years ago. Horrible, so I killed it.

I have only had one issue, a ransomware and guess which OS was affected? Windows 10. I lost everything on it. But frankly, I don’t give a damn; formatted it, erased it, reinstalled it. I had a small external hdd backup with most important files so It was just a matter of copying them back. That PC was only used as a sim racing rig. Also, I had the exact same files on my first (2010) Macbook Pro at that time. This was when I literally gave the finger to Windows and moved to macOS.

ten years later, never used any AV with macOS and neither my classic Windows VMs. The Win 10 VM too. But now I’m behind a router with a firewall.

Azarien wrote on 2021-06-17, 22:30:

I don't like the new taskbar with centered icons. I really hope it will be possible to tweak it to more resemble the taskbar of Windows 95 thru Vista, as can be done in Windows 7-10.

According to WindowsCentral, you can. There is a setting for it - but for more improvement on it, needs to tweak the registry a bit.

On Windows 98 Kario was my software firewall. Using dial up back then. When I moved to XP and was behind a hardware firewall I disabled the stuff the chappy above mention and used the classic shell. Just couldn't understand all the bitching about it being slow at the time.

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. 😁

...and they should ditch the 32-bit version of Windows. No one needs to run this on a Pentium 4.
...and they should add OS-level support for different color profiles, like DCI-P3 for instance. Yes, it's kind of there in Win10, but it's half-assed at best.
...and they should integrate Teams! I use that thing 10 hours a day, so every bit of extra speed they can coerce out of it would be hugely appreciated.
...and they should take the time to get rid of some of the legacy components. The old control panel, for example.

Other than that, I like what I've seen in youtube videos so far.

The whole UI just looks downright classy and more... I dunno, GPU accelerated? Just look at how smooth the transition is when you rotate the display. It's just as quick and 60-fps-smooth as my freakin' iPhone, man! I'm wondering if the compositor is finally making use of DX11-class hardware to make all of this happen? The DWM has been using DX9 since the Vista beta 2 days, so it would be great if Microsoft is finally utilizing some of the features that GPUs and even IGPs have had since 2011.

The new OOBE is fantastic too. A huge step up from the downright ugly one that's in Win 8 and 10.

Also, as a fan of Windows Terminal, I'm just digging the fact that it's now baked into the OS. Also love the new window organization menu that appears when you hover over the maximize button. I can see that being very useful on high-res displays with lots of screen real estate.

I think it's gonna be good. 😜

Or lipstick on a pig 😉

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

...and they should ditch 32-bit support.

You mean ditching 32-bit version of Windows 11, right?
Removing support for 32-bit application on a 64-bit system would be a very bad idea.

No one needs to run Windows 11 on a Pentium 4.

I run 32-bit Windows 10 on a Core 2 Quad for better compatibility with older games while still being able to run modern applications e.g. web browser.

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. :grin: […]
Show full quote

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. 😁

...and they should ditch 32-bit support. No one needs to run Windows 11 on a Pentium 4.
...and they should add OS-level support for different color profiles, like DCI-P3 for instance. Yes, it's kind of there in Win10, but it's half-assed at best.
...and they should integrate Teams! I use that thing 10 hours a day, so every bit of extra speed they can coerce out of it would be hugely appreciated.
...and they should take the time to get rid of some of the legacy components. The old control panel, for example.

Other than that, I like what I've seen in youtube videos so far.

The whole UI just looks downright classy and more... I dunno, GPU accelerated? Just look at how smooth the transition is when you rotate the display. It's just as quick and 60-fps-smooth as my freakin' iPhone, man! I'm wondering if the compositor is finally making use of DX11-class hardware to make all of this happen? The DWM has been using DX9 since the Vista beta 2 days, so it would be great if Microsoft is finally utilizing some of the features that GPUs and even IGPs have had since 2011.

The new OOBE is fantastic too. A huge step up from the downright ugly one that's in Win 8 and 10.

Also, as a fan of Windows Terminal, I'm just digging the fact that it's now baked into the OS. Also love the new window organization menu that appears when you hover over the maximize button. I can see that being very useful on high-res displays with lots of screen real estate.

I think it's gonna be good. 😜

They will have to pry the old style control panel from my cold dead hands.

There is some stuff that is magnitudes easier to do through control panel instead of the lame settings apps.

Azarien wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:58:

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

...and they should ditch 32-bit support.

You mean ditching 32-bit version of Windows 11, right?
Removing support for 32-bit application on a 64-bit system would be a very bad idea.

Oops! Yep, that's exactly what I meant. Fixed. 👍

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-18, 00:01:

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. :grin: […]
Show full quote

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. 😁

...and they should ditch 32-bit support. No one needs to run Windows 11 on a Pentium 4.
...and they should add OS-level support for different color profiles, like DCI-P3 for instance. Yes, it's kind of there in Win10, but it's half-assed at best.
...and they should integrate Teams! I use that thing 10 hours a day, so every bit of extra speed they can coerce out of it would be hugely appreciated.
...and they should take the time to get rid of some of the legacy components. The old control panel, for example.

Other than that, I like what I've seen in youtube videos so far.

The whole UI just looks downright classy and more... I dunno, GPU accelerated? Just look at how smooth the transition is when you rotate the display. It's just as quick and 60-fps-smooth as my freakin' iPhone, man! I'm wondering if the compositor is finally making use of DX11-class hardware to make all of this happen? The DWM has been using DX9 since the Vista beta 2 days, so it would be great if Microsoft is finally utilizing some of the features that GPUs and even IGPs have had since 2011.

The new OOBE is fantastic too. A huge step up from the downright ugly one that's in Win 8 and 10.

Also, as a fan of Windows Terminal, I'm just digging the fact that it's now baked into the OS. Also love the new window organization menu that appears when you hover over the maximize button. I can see that being very useful on high-res displays with lots of screen real estate.

I think it's gonna be good. 😜

They will have to pry the old style control panel from my cold dead hands.

There is some stuff that is magnitudes easier to do through control panel instead of the lame settings apps.

Agreed.

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

...and they should ditch 32-bit support. No one needs to run Windows 11 on a Pentium 4.

I think they will. They will ditch 32-bit CPUs but retain 32-bit software compatibility.

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

The whole UI just looks downright classy and more... I dunno, GPU accelerated? Just look at how smooth the transition is when you rotate the display. It's just as quick and 60-fps-smooth as my freakin' iPhone, man! I'm wondering if the compositor is finally making use of DX11-class hardware to make all of this happen?

That would imply more GPU HW obsolesce down the road. Either a new class of WDDM for Windows 11 or minimum support of WDDM 2.4+ but maybe be unoptimized, depends on how many more old GPU they want to kill. This will kill a lot more Intel iGPUs.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-18, 00:01:

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. :grin: […]
Show full quote

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. 😁

...and they should ditch 32-bit support. No one needs to run Windows 11 on a Pentium 4.
...and they should add OS-level support for different color profiles, like DCI-P3 for instance. Yes, it's kind of there in Win10, but it's half-assed at best.
...and they should integrate Teams! I use that thing 10 hours a day, so every bit of extra speed they can coerce out of it would be hugely appreciated.
...and they should take the time to get rid of some of the legacy components. The old control panel, for example.

Other than that, I like what I've seen in youtube videos so far.

The whole UI just looks downright classy and more... I dunno, GPU accelerated? Just look at how smooth the transition is when you rotate the display. It's just as quick and 60-fps-smooth as my freakin' iPhone, man! I'm wondering if the compositor is finally making use of DX11-class hardware to make all of this happen? The DWM has been using DX9 since the Vista beta 2 days, so it would be great if Microsoft is finally utilizing some of the features that GPUs and even IGPs have had since 2011.

The new OOBE is fantastic too. A huge step up from the downright ugly one that's in Win 8 and 10.

Also, as a fan of Windows Terminal, I'm just digging the fact that it's now baked into the OS. Also love the new window organization menu that appears when you hover over the maximize button. I can see that being very useful on high-res displays with lots of screen real estate.

I think it's gonna be good. 😜

They will have to pry the old style control panel from my cold dead hands.

There is some stuff that is magnitudes easier to do through control panel instead of the lame settings apps.

I'm assuming they'd remove it only after migrating everything over to Settings. Which they have been working on, albeit at a glacial pace. I sincerely hope they manage to complete the transition by November or whenever they decide to launch this thing.

Azarien wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:58:

Removing support for 32-bit application on a 64-bit system would be a very bad idea.

They could definitely do it on next major updates after Windows 11.
They could also unify how 32-bit application was handled as in current Windows 10 ARM. I believe Windows 10 ARM employs dynarec/JIT for 32-bit x86 application but pass-through Windows APIs into native binaries. It helps getting rid of 32-bit system DLLs. For fast & literally modern systems, performance would still be acceptable, but for older 64-bit CPUs, 32-bit application will suffer performance penalty. It is a strategy that kills 2 birds with 1 stone, discouraging 32-bit software and forcing older 64-bit CPUs retirement.

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-18, 00:18:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-18, 00:01:

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. :grin: […]
Show full quote

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. 😁

...and they should ditch 32-bit support. No one needs to run Windows 11 on a Pentium 4.
...and they should add OS-level support for different color profiles, like DCI-P3 for instance. Yes, it's kind of there in Win10, but it's half-assed at best.
...and they should integrate Teams! I use that thing 10 hours a day, so every bit of extra speed they can coerce out of it would be hugely appreciated.
...and they should take the time to get rid of some of the legacy components. The old control panel, for example.

Other than that, I like what I've seen in youtube videos so far.

The whole UI just looks downright classy and more... I dunno, GPU accelerated? Just look at how smooth the transition is when you rotate the display. It's just as quick and 60-fps-smooth as my freakin' iPhone, man! I'm wondering if the compositor is finally making use of DX11-class hardware to make all of this happen? The DWM has been using DX9 since the Vista beta 2 days, so it would be great if Microsoft is finally utilizing some of the features that GPUs and even IGPs have had since 2011.

The new OOBE is fantastic too. A huge step up from the downright ugly one that's in Win 8 and 10.

Also, as a fan of Windows Terminal, I'm just digging the fact that it's now baked into the OS. Also love the new window organization menu that appears when you hover over the maximize button. I can see that being very useful on high-res displays with lots of screen real estate.

I think it's gonna be good. 😜

They will have to pry the old style control panel from my cold dead hands.

There is some stuff that is magnitudes easier to do through control panel instead of the lame settings apps.

I'm assuming they'd remove it only after migrating everything over to Settings. Which they have been working on, albeit at a glacial pace. I sincerely hope they manage to complete the transition by November or whenever they decide to launch this thing.

Where are they going to put all the admin stuff? I don't see it being near as easy to use as the control panel setup that has been around forever. Everything is super easy to find. The Settings app is just super annoying to use. Some stuff take 2-3 times more time / clicks to get to the same information / settings as it does via the control panel.

Standard Def Steve wrote on 2021-06-17, 23:53:

Microsoft should totally release this on XP's 20th anniversary. 😁

...and they should take the time to get rid of some of the legacy components. The old control panel, for example.

You mean, they should ditch the terrible "apps" and *keep* the old control panel as being something that works well, and has for decades.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-17, 20:39:

Why are you still using Windows 8.1? 10 is way better.

Because unlike Windows 10 (1909 onwards), it doesn't bombard me monthly with the annoying "Get Even More Out of Windows" OOBE screen when I'm not using a Micro$oft account, it doesn't beg me to use Edge whenever I use Firefox/Chrome, it's easier to customize to my liking than Windows 10, and still receives updates unlike Windows 7. If Windows 11 gets rid of the Micro$oft account advertising and MS Edge advertising, then I'll switch. Otherwise, I'm switching to Linux by 2023.

KCompRoom2000 wrote on 2021-06-18, 04:43:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-17, 20:39:

Why are you still using Windows 8.1? 10 is way better.

Because unlike Windows 10 (1909 onwards), it doesn't bombard me monthly with the annoying "Get Even More Out of Windows" OOBE screen when I'm not using a Micro$oft account, it doesn't beg me to use Edge whenever I use Firefox/Chrome, it's easier to customize to my liking than Windows 10, and still receives updates unlike Windows 7. If Windows 11 gets rid of the Micro$oft account advertising and MS Edge advertising, then I'll switch. Otherwise, I'm switching to Linux by 2023.

Hmm.. I was running a laptop for a while with a local Windows 10 account and I don't remember it bombarding me with hints to use an MS account.

As far as Windows trying to get you to use Edge.. I never see that even though I use Chrome almost exclusively.

Now, if you go to google.com and are using a different browser it always tries to get you to switch to Chrome.

Either way it doesn't really matter as Edge is basically just Microsoft's skin over Chrome since they got rid of the original Edge not too long ago.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-18, 05:53:

Hmm.. I was running a laptop for a while with a local Windows 10 account and I don't remember it bombarding me with hints to use an MS account.

As far as Windows trying to get you to use Edge.. I never see that even though I use Chrome almost exclusively.

Yeah, same here. I guess some people are just unlucky like this. Or maybe it's another difference of Home vs Pro?

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-06-18, 05:53:

Now, if you go to google.com and are using a different browser it always tries to get you to switch to Chrome.

Exactly. Sometimes people tend to forgive Google for the same crap that they would hold eternal grudge against Microsoft for. Maybe it has to do with the "good guys" image that Google had when they started as a small company, at the time Microsoft was a monopoly-holding behemoth. Of course, by now Google's monopoly in some areas far worse than Microsoft's ever were, and their "don't be evil" motto is a sad joke.