About that. I was just reading about TPMs in regard to the new Windows. If I understand correctly, if you use encryption (BitLocker etc.) on a drive in a computer with TPM, you then you can't remove the drive and read it on another computer?

When you setup Bitlocker you setup a Bitlocker recovery key for such situations.

Datadrainer wrote on 2021-10-16, 20:24:

or HP for what I know well: custom motherboard with custom power supply and connectors and rebadged components.

and they're getting rightfully called out for it by tech youtubers along DELL and others, they're basically producing e-waste right out of the factory.

imi wrote on 2021-10-16, 21:16:

Datadrainer wrote on 2021-10-16, 20:24:

or HP for what I know well: custom motherboard with custom power supply and connectors and rebadged components.

and they're getting rightfully called out for it by tech youtubers along DELL and others, they're basically producing e-waste right out of the factory.

Which is a shame because except the fact that nothing in is standard, they are very sturdy and well designed hardware (I speak for HP, not for Dell). Better than IBM PS/1 and first gen Aptiva for example. They have quality electronic components, nothing compared to what is found on most 386/486/Pentium AT motherboards. HP Vectra/Kayak are business computer made to work on the long run. I was not speaking of Pavilion and other junk from the modern HP era following Compaq acquisition. They are ATX compliant, but they are terrible... That's another subject about how a fusion of two very good companies can produce such a result?
For the Vectra, all are good, but some are better than other though. But I understand that people don't want to mess with them and prefer the standardized way. It's just that I don't like things to be trashed because they are useless. There is always somewhere, someone to find them useful. So the selling option is preferable. I do not say its good for the planet. From the moment something is manufactured, it is bad for the planet, because at some point it will stop to work and it will be trashed.
Everyone has a brain, it's good to use it to make its own opinion and just not stupidly follow the thinking of some YouTubers.

If you were unlucky enough to buy an apple product I can understand the rage.

That being said apple is still the same company that makes consumer products, targeted for the type of consumer that don't know shit about computers or technology. It's a long standing meme that has truth to it.

If you are that type of person than apple making shitty products doesn't bother you because whenever somthing break you just throw it away anyways becasue thats how you are. Apple only care about gouging money from these kinds of people.

Apple is also part of a religion of a certain kind of people. And it don't matter how shitty it is they will just keep buying it becasue it is COOL and is what the hipsters do. If you are one of these kinds of people you don't know shit about shit also so there you go.

No matter how bad apple product get its about the profit, the more cheaper you can make it is better and you wont have any problems convicing these kinds of people that its worth a lot of money. They will gladly pay.

So there you have it. You might think that apple used to make better products but you are brainwashed and a fool. Up until maybe recently and maybe only with the super high end stuff that apple has sold in the past its never been competitive with PCs in performance or price.

You might also think well apple invents shit... No they don't invent anything, they take a bunch of other things already invented by other people and mix it up together into a recipie. Of their vision of how somthing should be. They are a recipie company.

Always a shitty company always will be a shitty company and if you think otherwise youre fooling yourself.

Yes, I wonder how long ATX will be around. We've never had standardization in the laptop space. The big computer makers would like to do the same for desktops.

Own a Dell and want to upgrade the video card? Sorry, only Dell-made cards will fit your computer....

In these discussions a person can find reasons to agree with others, or alternatively, reasons to disagree with others.

• If you agree with others about things you both already believe, then it's an echo chamber.
• If you disagree with others about positions you are both already settled in, then neither hears the other.

The most efficient progress (in debate), then, comes from finding ways to agree with people about things you previously disbelieved, or ways to disagree with things you had already believed absolute. Which takes a certain degree of humility and self-awareness.

/philosophical aside

Which is a shame because except the fact that nothing in is standard, they are very sturdy and well designed hardware (I speak for HP, not for Dell).

*chuckles* Very sturdy indeed! For almost 1.5k no less.

HP makes decent workstations, but everything mass produced is bad or mediocre, with massive corner cutting, just like DELL. This goes way back btw, so it's nothing new.

Yes, I wonder how long ATX will be around.

Big OEMs like DELL and HP already jumped into bandwagon of 12V only proprietary PSUs. Won't happen to mobos from ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI anytime soon though, because even modern middle-end mobos are tightly packed with components.

Reminds me of recent generation game consoles. e.g Nintendo's Wii U and Switch with their user-unfriendly limited-life battery systems with little-to-no aftermarket support (try getting a reliable trusted Wii U Gamepad battery replacement, if you're outside the US and thus can't be shipped to from Ifixit, the one place in the world to offer a consensus good product), or the fact that a far-too-high % of consoles released since 2000 have endured "<whatever> Of Death" faults.

In many ways these things simply aren't built to last longer than 5-10 years. For obvious economic reasons. From a preservation and continuance POV it's unfortunate. Some people ethically dislike emulation of still-current systems, but the way things are going, the emulation scene needs to get cracking as soon as a product is released, just to achieve accurate preservation within the hardware's feasible lifecycle.

null

Errius wrote on 2021-10-16, 23:14:

Yes, I wonder how long ATX will be around. We've never had standardization in the laptop space. The big computer makers would like to do the same for desktops.

Own a Dell and want to upgrade the video card? Sorry, only Dell-made cards will fit your computer....

My 1995 vintage Dell Dimension XPS Minitower had its MB derived from Intel Advanced/EV and could accept standard PCI graphics cards.

HOWEVER, it has the notorious proprietary "pseudo-ATX" power connector: A Permanent Solution to the Dell 'Fake ATX' Power Supply Problem?

It shares the same form factor as the standard ATX Molex Mini-fit Jr. connector but has different pinouts. The power switch has AT-styled "hard" power switch yet is connected to the MB via two thin cords more reminiscent to ATX-styled "soft" switch; a really strange form of chimeric hybrid.

The MB was made by Intel and has been a rock solid performer for the past 26 years, but I'm more concerned with the proprietary PSU and power switch / case design. If any of the latter fails it would be quite troublesome to fix and/or replace.

Bondi wrote on 2021-10-16, 09:55:

Tetrium wrote on 2021-10-16, 09:29:

Btw, I have no idea how the communism thingy sticks with this?

Born in a communist country I just can assume that the logic is the following. In former USSR consumer products were of very poor quality, and the official service barely existed. So everyone had to reapair things either by own means or by unofficial technicians.

Ah yes, in Poland, we called this "kombinacje" (that word has several implications though).

Also interestingly, when my parents finally obtained their Dacia 1310, we were immediately stopped at the gates and offered twice the amount for it (in USD) - The former Iron Curtain countries; the only place where you can sell your car for twice as much after it rolls off the lot 😉

I suppose that's where I get my desire to fix things from - it's in the blood. Hell I've fixed so many of my kid's favourite toys, he now brings me freshly broken items and asks me to put them in the repair pile. When the pile's big enough, we go through it together. Today he went downstairs and said (in French) "dad repair computer - dad repair toy" and proceeded to bring me all manner of tools.

Maybe R2R should be banned - infants and toddlers are at a real risk here. I'm sure child services have been notified. 😜

Jed118 wrote on 2021-10-17, 03:38:

Ah yes, in Poland, we called this "kombinacje" (that word has several implications though).

Is that word similar to "jugaad" in South Asian languages?

DosFreak wrote on 2021-10-16, 20:56:

When you setup Bitlocker you setup a Bitlocker recovery key for such situations.

Why would anyone in their right mind do anything with bitlocker ? Sort of like doing anything with any Cloud. If you understand your data is now open to any one at those companies that push that crap and can see/read what ever you save.
If you think they cannot read your encrypted data you are wrong, they wrote the encryption and can reverse it (unless you pre-encrypt it with third party tools but even then...no guarentee)

Horun wrote on 2021-10-17, 05:03:

If you think they cannot read your encrypted data you are wrong, they wrote the encryption and can reverse it (unless you pre-encrypt it with third party tools but even then...no guarentee)

Got any proof of that ? Do you have any idea how bitlocker works ?

Also "they" can read your data with much less effort. A bat to your leg, for example.
https://xkcd.com/538/

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-10-16, 23:45:

Reminds me of recent generation game consoles. e.g Nintendo's Wii U and Switch with their user-unfriendly limited-life battery systems with little-to-no aftermarket support (try getting a reliable trusted Wii U Gamepad battery replacement, if you're outside the US and thus can't be shipped to from Ifixit, the one place in the world to offer a consensus good product), or the fact that a far-too-high % of consoles released since 2000 have endured "<whatever> Of Death" faults.

In many ways these things simply aren't built to last longer than 5-10 years. For obvious economic reasons. From a preservation and continuance POV it's unfortunate. Some people ethically dislike emulation of still-current systems, but the way things are going, the emulation scene needs to get cracking as soon as a product is released, just to achieve accurate preservation within the hardware's feasible lifecycle.

That's true about the Gamepad, but also true about the official Wii Remote Rapid Charging Set for the Remote with a shitty battery pack absolutely impossible to find alone even during it was sold. That is surely the same for portable consoles (GBA, DS & 3DS variations) but their batteries, at least resist more than 2 years... But there is still unofficial products, sometime of great quality.

And from what I have read on this thread, the question should no be to have a right to repair for the customers which makes little sense, but more about a duty to allow repairability and maintenance for the manufacturers. Which from my point of view is an absolute necessity for the future, at least if we want to have one.

As a polar opposite to Nintendo, the upcoming Steam deck has publicly stated they will have replacement parts available, and even went so far as to publicly put out a video how.

Thats exactly what I want!

Jed118 wrote on 2021-10-17, 03:38:

Also interestingly, when my parents finally obtained their Dacia 1310, we were immediately stopped at the gates and offered twice the amount for it (in USD) - The former Iron Curtain countries; the only place where you can sell your car for twice as much after it rolls off the lot 😉

Yes, that's the paradox of the planned economy - used cars were more expensive than brand new cars.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-10-17, 06:03:

Got any proof of that ? Do you have any idea how bitlocker works ? […]
Show full quote

Horun wrote on 2021-10-17, 05:03:

If you think they cannot read your encrypted data you are wrong, they wrote the encryption and can reverse it (unless you pre-encrypt it with third party tools but even then...no guarentee)

Got any proof of that ? Do you have any idea how bitlocker works ?

Also "they" can read your data with much less effort. A bat to your leg, for example.
https://xkcd.com/538/

or more likely, send an email or IM with a malicious link.

dormcat wrote on 2021-10-17, 04:50:

Jed118 wrote on 2021-10-17, 03:38:

Ah yes, in Poland, we called this "kombinacje" (that word has several implications though).

Is that word similar to "jugaad" in South Asian languages?

In this context, yes. Actually it seems similar. I would never use it in a management setting though, as it tends to have connotations of free-for-allness and survival in a harsh environment, an environment that never should exist in any kind of workplace.

If someone is a "Kombinator", usually it is someone who achieves an unconventional means to a problem, often resorting to gray area, sometimes semi-legal or questionable methods to obtain it. Not necessarily against the law, but circumvented in a creative way. In Poland, at least in the occupation times, it was a way of life, which wasn't really detrimental to other citizens (I mean there were, and always will be, assholes and thugs) but as a way to stick it to the oppressive man managing a very broken socialist model and get what you need to have a semblance of a good, or at least decent life. It hung on a little in the 90s, but now it is a pejorative term to describe scofflaws and other less reputable characters, persons who have not taken advantage of the last 30 years of democratic means to wean themselves off such then-necessary methods.